Amfa Meetings

[Checking it Out]

Jet Mechanic hold your horses, I will be back short on time.

 

[ata36bg]

I too had the pleasure of attending an AMFA informational meetings held at CLT this past week. I was impressed by the professionalism of the speakers. For once I felt a small amount of pride about my chosen profession.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank some of the IAM representatives who also spent part of their day at the meeting. Your questions were very insightful. One word of advice though…If you are going to try and make someone else look foolish when asking a question of them try this tact instead. Know the answer to the question you are asking them. This way the answer they give won’t hurt your case and make you look so foolish. If I were on the dais representing AMFA I could not have asked for better “softballâ€￾ questions than the one’s you guys asked. My only frustration was that you left so soon. Thanks for your help while you were there.

 

[Jet Mechanic]

I too had the pleasure of attending an AMFA informational meetings held at CLT this past week. I was impressed by the professionalism of the speakers. For once I felt a small amount of pride about my chosen profession.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank some of the IAM representatives who also spent part of their day at the meeting.

ata36bg,

You must have been at one of the earlier AMFA informational meetings in CLT. The one I attended was at 3:45 PM and to the best of my knowledge was not attended by any of the IAM representatives. Still, the mechanics in attendance asked some pointed questions which the AMFA representatives did not flinch in answering. It was definitely time well spent.

Jet Mechanic

 

[i97]

Did they have coffee and refreshments?

 

[UAL_TECH]

CIO,

Oh Yea,

The TWU informational spin at ‘the-mechanic.net’,
and IAM spin on amfanuts.com, also not to forget the infamous iam-amt.org.

We AMFA folks appreciate your dissemination of deceptional information.
Your own ignorance and lies tell it all.

(Thanks!! Credibility-Suicide one post at a time.)

AFL/CIO (When Pigs Fly)

 

[Checking it Out]

When you presenting your case in front of an audience you tend to leave out the small things,

-Like the signing of the confidential forms when you ask for information from your local -Lack of funding from the International for Politic issues that effect your lively hoods
-5 year Contract with the National Administrator that has a guaranteed funding for 6
Month’s if He is removed.
-Changing the contract that gives the company unlimited farm-out rights
-Change the wording of a contract that takes away your seniority rights
-Change the grievance procedures, which gave you incentives to watch the company
-Under amfa at NW the money goes to the International
-Like cashing in a Large certificate of deposit that was earmarked for the members
-How about the credit card in your wallet with special privileges
- The LTD for the membership
-Or when you go talk with a politician and he knows amfa does not support them
-Go ask for a lawyer for contract talks or arbitration and the international says you have
to pay for it
-Call and ask a question and all you get is a sub-contractor to answer your Question
-Canceling the constitution convention for personal gains and have to go to court
-How about 53 % of the Membership with one vote in Negotiations

You need to understand you don’t miss these items until you have lost them.

AMFA has been in existence for over 40 years and until 1998 made little progress. When a Contract was signed in 1999 with MAG and when Seham started his special deals, now they are the ones pulling the strings and have the control over you.

 

[ata36bg]

Hey "Checking it out",
You have turned me around! Your insightful post has changed my whole thinking on this issue. I just have a few questions I need you to answer to really make my decision permanent.

-Like the signing of the confidential forms when you ask for information from your local
Which forms were you talking about?

-Lack of funding from the International for Politic issues that effect your lively hoods
Name three pieces of legislation that were recently enacted which you can attribute to political funding from your union.

-5 year Contract with the National Administrator that has a guaranteed funding for 6 Month’s if He is removed.
5 yr contract with whom and number of people who voted for this contract

-Changing the contract that gives the company unlimited farm-out rights
What is the exact language in the contract that allows for unlimited farming of work?

-Change the wording of a contract that takes away your seniority rights
What is the exact language in the contract that that takes away your seniority rights?

-Change the grievance procedures, which gave you incentives to watch the company
What changes to the grievance procedures were approved that gives you incentives to watch the company?

-Under amfa at NW the money goes to the International
What is the actual percentage of money that stays in the locals and goes to the "international"?

-Like cashing in a Large certificate of deposit that was earmarked for the members
What was the amount of this “largeâ€￾ certificate of deposit and when did this happen?

-How about the credit card in your wallet with special privileges
What special privileges would I receive or is the credit card just for the alleged “AMFA Lackeysâ€￾ who take advantage of their positions “insideâ€￾ the union? Can I get one of these special privilege cards somewhere else?

- The LTD for the membership
Is this a bad thing or a good thing-details sir?

-Or when you go talk with a politician and he knows amfa does not support them
By support do you mean paying inordinate sums of money to curry favor or do you mean remaining bipartisan so that you do not become a puppet for one party or the other?

-Go ask for a lawyer for contract talks or arbitration and the international says you have
to pay for it
I am assuming that the lawyers who work for your union do so pro bono. Could you tell me what it would cost me out of pocket to have a lawyer present if I went to arbitration?

-Call and ask a question and all you get is a sub-contractor to answer your Question
Does this so called “sub-contractorâ€￾ know the answer to my question?

-Cancelin the constitution convention for personal gains and have to go to court
Could you give me the docket number for the case? I would love to read the specifics of the proceedings.

-How about 53 % of the Membership with one vote in Negotiations
Could you tell me the actual numbers you used to arrive at 53% of the membership? I am assuming by this you feel that 53% of the members at NW are Utility personnel.

 

[ata36bg]

"Jet Mechanic"

I was at the Noon meeting. Most of the IAM guys left early, except for one of the guys I still repect. Our meeting was very informative too. The guys were pretty shocked to see that there was a union out there that thought along the same lines we did.

 

[to much time to quit]

I too had the pleasure of attending an AMFA informational meetings held at CLT this past week. I was impressed by the professionalism of the speakers. For once I felt a small amount of pride about my chosen profession.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank some of the IAM representatives who also spent part of their day at the meeting. Your questions were very insightful. One word of advice though…If you are going to try and make someone else look foolish when asking a question of them try this tact instead. Know the answer to the question you are asking them. This way the answer they give won’t hurt your case and make you look so foolish. If I were on the dais representing AMFA I could not have asked for better “softballâ€￾ questions than the one’s you guys asked. My only frustration was that you left so soon. Thanks for your help while you were there.

Welcome aboard. It is a change to read posts from people like you who speak the TRUTH. Hop on over to the "why this f/a supports the iam" topic and you'll see the lavman TWIST the TRUTH. He was at the very same noon meeting and does not remember much of the TRUTH. He claims that amfa didn't answer certain questions. Thanks for joining and helping spread the TRUTH. The honest members need your help!! 🙂

 

[delldude]

wasn't AMFA the union of choice some 20 or 30 years ago?
wasn't the reason AMFA fell from grace the same reasons we are hearing today about the IAM?
if so,then what is AMFA doing today that it didn't do in the past?
i'd think you'd have to look at their recently negotiated contracts with a powerful microscope to see if they haven't changed from their own past.
seems i remember accusations of "in bed with the company" or "aren't in touch with the membership"....seems i've heard this all somewhere else...
my,my...some things never change now do they?
you better be wewy wewy carefull







hell,even seigel posted here in favor of AMFA...now that would worry me... :blink:

 

[High Iron]

wasn't AMFA the union of choice some 20 or 30 years ago?
wasn't the reason AMFA fell from grace the same reasons we are hearing today about the IAM?
if so,then what is AMFA doing today that it didn't do in the past?
i'd think you'd have to look at their recently negotiated contracts with a powerful microscope to see if they haven't changed from their own past.
seems i remember accusations of "in bed with the company" or "aren't in touch with the membership"....seems i've heard this all somewhere else...
my,my...some things never change now do they?
you better be wewy wewy carefull







hell,even seigel posted here in favor of AMFA...now that would worry me... :blink:

What ARE you talking about!?

Fell from grace? Explain please.

Seems AMFA was, is, and will be "the union of choice" based on their stready ascendency. about the only AMFA retrenchment I can recall is at Ozark...courtesy of their absorption by TWA.

I've read their constitution, as well as the NWA contract. I can only hope "their past" remains alive and continues. You see, I like what I see. So do many many others apparrently.

Cite all the accusations you like. It's not a reasobable enough doubt in which base an opinion by to any thinking person. ANYbody can make an accusation. One wonders though just WHO ARE making this accusation? Bet I know 😉

Please cut and paste any copy of Dave Seigel's post here...the one where he was in favor of AMFA. Post it or tell me where it can be found. 'Preciate it.

Anybody that followed the major contract negotiations for airlines over the past half-dozen years or so would ask you this...as do I: If the AMFA represented carriers WANTED ( an ostensibly weak ) AMFA to represent their mechanics, then why were the negotiations so tough, protracted, and often bitter...bristling with restraining orders, lawsuits etc?? This was all just a ruse for public consumption? I guess to give the appearance of an adversarial relationship to a group they secretly "are in bed with"? Riiiiight 😉 On one point, I'll throw you a bone: Since AMFA, which by their very design represents a smaller seperate pie with the slices carrying greater bargaining power ( AMT's ) from the previous big pie with more slices-AND- The company is more concerned with the total compensation than with how it is meted out amongst the groups. To that end I can see where they may favor having AMFA in, but not due to any supposed ineffectivity on AMFA's part...but that the company may feel they can take a much harder line in negotiations against the remaining groups.

You have your interests...we have ours.

 

[Checking it Out]

Jet mechanic wrote;

In the comparison between the IAM and AMFA, I find the openness and professionalism of AMFA to be highly refreshing. And another thing... when a member votes on an agreement, AMFA takes the membership at their word. There is NO second vote unless the offer has changed. THAT is how it should be! The IAM lost me big time in the vote fiasco and showed their true colors. The IAM does NOT listen to its membership. And, no I will not wear the silly buttons.
--------------------------------------------------------

I agree some issues with the International need to be addressed, How many have gone and requested certain changes and gone thru the proper channels? My experience has been it is easy to complain on the floor, but few are willing to go sit in a meeting, get educated, be persistent and present the necessary criteria to make the changes.

On the second vote; during the last AMFA Convention Delle was so mad at the locals he canceled the convention and local 33 had to go to court to proceed, a compromise was reached and two issues were added, one was guaranteed retirement funds for Delle and increase in dues without a vote of the membership during Negotiations.

It is easy to find fault it's much harder to correct the fault! Some of us have taken the time to become Informed on our own time.

response #2,

 

[Jet Mechanic]

I agree some issues with the International need to be addressed, How many have gone and requested certain changes and gone thru the proper channels? My experience has been it is easy to complain on the floor, but few are willing to go sit in a meeting, get educated, be persistent and present the necessary criteria to make the changes.

Checking It Out,

Thanks for your reply. I have gone to the meetings in Charlotte and find change very difficult to accomplish. No organization is perfect, but after reading the AMFA Constitution I find it a vast improvement over what I have experienced with the IAM over the last 20+ years. I believe there is a ground swell of opinion out there "on the floor" that the IAM is not responsive to their membership and change is needed.

May I ask you the following questions: 1) Are you a mechanic? and 2) Are you one of the writers of the website www.the-mechanic.net? The site really needs to be reviewed by a copy editor!

Jet Mechanic

 

[delldude]

check thisAMFA - Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association





Union History

What is AMFA?

The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is an independent labor union representing aircraft technicians and, in their words, airline support personnel. AMFA is not affiliated with the AFL-CIO or any other labor organization. It is based in Laconia, New Hampshire.



Background

AMFA was founded by O.V. Delle-Femine, who is the only President/National Director AMFA has ever had. Delle-Femine was born and raised in East Providence, Rhode Island. He obtained technical training as a mechanic while working in the Air Force. He became actively involved in union affairs after he left the Air Force and began working for American Airlines. Delle-Femine is well read and reportedly immersed himself in books on the history of the American labor movement. He eventually became disillusioned with the state of the mechanics' union at American and committed himself to creating a "better" labor union focusing on the "craft" aspect of the mechanics work group. Delle-Femine and a few of his friends formed AMFA in 1962 supposedly as an alternative to the traditional industrial unions that had dominated union organizing among the mechanics' craft or class up until that time. It formally became a union in 1963.

Delle-Femine and AMFA have been repeatedly frustrated over the years by the National Mediation Board's (NMB) craft or class unit determinations that consistently group so-called "unskilled" workers such as cleaners and fuelers with so-called "skilled" workers such as aircraft technicians. AMFA has consistently made clear that it strongly favors rules that would enable it to represent only these "skilled" workers. For the most part, AMFA's efforts have been unsuccessful. In fact, AMFA had very little success organizing any employees prior to 1994. The few companies where it had any success in organizing new employees (Ozark Airlines, Hughes Airwest, Southern Airways, Braniff, Trump Shuttle, Pacific Airlines, and Airlift International) are no longer in business (either through mergers or going out of business). However, the contracts AMFA negotiated during this period were always viewed as mid-scale, even moderate. For the most part, AMFA was not a significant player in the airline labor movement through the mid 90-s. Its membership had dropped to only 439 employees by the end of 1996. Its only active members worked at Atlantic Coast Airlines, a relatively small regional airline based in Washington, D.C. With membership levels at an all time low, AMFA's finances were in shambles. National Director Delle-Femine reportedly spent nights sleeping on benches at airports in light of AMFA's poor economic condition.




AMFA at Alaska Airlines

AMFA's breakthrough as a serious labor organization occurred in April, 1998 when it surprised the labor movement by successfully "raiding" (replacing) the International Association of Machinists (IAM) as the bargaining representative for aircraft technicians and related employees at Alaska Airlines. The vote was extremely close with AMFA garnering only 55% of the eligible votes. Most people who are familiar with what happened viewed AMFA's victory at Alaska as an offshoot of the bitter strike Alaska's aircraft technicians had gone through a few years earlier. Many of the technicians clearly blamed the IAM for taking them out on a strike during which the airline was able to continue to operate. Seeing that Alaska was successfully running the airline without them, a lot of the technicians crossed the picket line. Even after the strike ended, morale was very low among the technician workforce. AMFA capitalized on this situation and convinced a majority of the Alaskan employees that it was a better alternative to the IAM. The contract that AMFA subsequently negotiated at Alaska is still in place, and is yet another run of the mill, mid-level contract consistent with what AMFA had obtained in the past. With the addition of the 1,000 technicians and related employees at Alaska Airlines, AMFA's membership ranks grew to 2,176 employees by the end of 1998.


AMFA at Northwest Airlines

If AMFA's raid at Alaska Airlines in 1998 surprised the IAM, its successful raid of the IAM at Northwest Airlines in June 1999 stunned the entire AFL-CIO. There are numerous theories concerning how this happened. One theory is that the IAM got itself in trouble by agreeing to concessionary contracts when Northwest was in a dire economic situation in the mid-1980's. Other people believe AMFA won by successfully honing its now standard sales pitch about how it was a "different" union devoted to the "professional aircraft technician." The IAM places at least part of the blame for its demise on Northwest Airlines, which it claims favored the "weaker" union sister AMFA over the traditionally far more imposing and powerful IAM.
Whatever the explanation, the election between AMFA and the IAM at Northwest was bitterly fought. There were numerous legal challenges to AMFA's election victory. Although the NMB upheld AMFA's victory and certified it as the new collective bargaining representative for Northwest's technicians, it found AMFA had committed a number of questionable acts including an unusual form of collecting ballots (a clear violation of the NMB's rules for secret ballots) during the election period. The NMB reduced AMFA's grace period (the period after an election when a union cannot be raided by another union) from the normal two years to six months as a penalty for AMFA's misconduct during the Northwest election. Excerpts from the NMB's post election investigation (Case No. R-6621) reveal the following about AMFA's campaign conduct:

"Here, the facts are largely undisputed. In 1997 and again in 1998, at a discussion of the election at Northwest, the topic of collecting ballots was discussed by AMFA officials. The idea was rejected, not because it was improper, but because "t's impractical" and "not going to work." It was later brought up at several meetings of Northwest employees, but similarly the opinion was that the effort would not be successful because the Organization could not obtain "ballots from everyone." At the same time, AMFA and AMFA-MSP ran a campaign which repeatedly questioned the NMB's integrity and the NMB's ability to protect and properly count the ballots.

In the context of this campaign, Northwest employees placed messages on "The Mechanic" web site, directly asking employees to make a copy of their ballot with identification attached and send it to AMFA or to AMFA-MSP. Although AMFA National Director Delle-Femine, AMFA-MSP President MacFarlane, and other AMFA officials read the postings on the web site, they took no action to disclaim or deter this conduct.

AMFA and AMFA-MSP had an affirmative obligation to deter or halt any conduct which violates the secrecy of the ballot. The Board finds that AMFA's conduct was systematic because they knew about the messages on the web site and took absolutely no action to stop it. Even when they received copies of ballots, they took no action to stop the activity. While they did not directly solicit the copies, they allowed the wide-spread solicitation to occur in AMFA-MSP's name. AMFA and AMFA-MSP were secure in the knowledge that it had a ready arsenal of copied (and identified) ballots at their disposal.

Those who avail themselves of the Board's processes, must utilize the Board's processes. If AMFA was truly concerned about ballot integrity, they could have filed a motion requesting special procedures, and taken other action with the agency they campaigned against. Instead, they chose to violate the integrity of the ballot by permitting, and indeed encouraging, the copying of ballots with identification attached.

Based upon the foregoing, the Board finds that the laboratory conditions in the election involving Northwest Airlines' Mechanics and Related Employees were not tainted. However, the Board finds that AMFA's failure to discourage, and efforts to tacitly encourage the ballot duplications, raises serious concerns about the confidentiality of the voting process, and, therefore, calls for responsive action. Accordingly, the Board will shorten its normal bar period as set forth in Section 1206.4(a) of the Board's Rules. The bar period in this case will expire six months after the date of this decision."


Despite AMFA's promises that it would "quickly" finish the negotiations that had been ongoing between Northwest and the IAM, it took almost two years for AMFA to reach a final agreement with the company. AMFA's Northwest contract is clearly its major accomplishment. Despite the intervening economic upheaval in the airline industry after September 11, 2001, AMFA has continued to tout its contract at Northwest in all of its organizational drives at other airlines since that date.



National Officers

As noted, O.V. Delle-Femine founded AMFA and is the only National Director/President AMFA has ever had. However, AMFA's day to day operations are not run by Delle-Femine, but by Kevin McCormick, AMFA's National Administrator. McCormick is not even an employee of AMFA, is not a mechanic, or even a former airline employee. McCormick, whose background is real estate, is the head of the McCormick Advisory Group. AMFA is the only union in existence that subcontracts its administrative function to an outside organization. The McCormick Group is paid $500,000 a year for serving in this capacity. AMFA's national headquarters are in Laconia, New Hampshire, where McCormick is based. AMFA's constitution was recently revised primarily to reflect the reality of McCormick's status with AMFA. The former AMFA constitution didn't even acknowledge the existence of this highly influential individual.

None of AMFA's National Officers, perhaps apart from Kevin McCormick, are paid astronomical incomes by AMFA. Delle-Femine can earn up to 200% of the average pay of all AMFA represented technicians throughout the country. Lower level AMFA officials have their pay similarly pegged at lower percentages to the average pay of all AMFA represented technicians under the AMFA constitution.



AMFA Representation in the Airline Industry

Since its inception, AMFA has only represented mechanics and related employees at a total of 12 airlines-Ozark Airlines (1966), Pacific Airlines (1967), Airlift International (1967), Hughes Airwest (1970), Southern Airways (1978), Braniff (1989), Trump Shuttle (1990), Atlantic Coast Airlines (1994), Mesaba Airlines (1996), Alaska Airlines (1998), Northwest Airlines (1999), and American Trans Air (2002). Out of these 12 airlines, 7 no longer exist. Overall, aside from its representation at Northwest Airlines, AMFA's history as a labor union is unremarkable. Even in the past ten years, AMFA has had little success in its representation efforts, having lost 10 out of 16 attempts (See AMFA's Ten Year History Here). AMFA has active organizing drives at a number of airlines, including Delta, Federal Express, and American, but has yet to file with the NMB for representation at any of them.





:unsure: out,i'm sure its all lies.

 

[UAL_TECH]

DellDude,

How about a link?
(or did you think this up all by yourself?)

UT

About AMFA

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