The Debate In Tulsa!

[Buck]

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On 6/1/2003 1:05:32 AM j7915 wrote:

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On 6/1/2003 12:23:44 AM Buck wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 10:01:29 PM j7915 wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 1:05:27 PM Buck wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 1101 AM j7915 wrote:


Must have hit a very sensitive nerve if all you can come back with is "Farms Out In House"? So maybe airplane should never be taxied by mechanics as that function is already reserved for pilots only, when there are paxs aboard, it is OK for a mechanic to do taxi/run-up with just a few fellow mechs aboard? We don''t count?????


As to the welder, if the shoe fits wear it. I get suspicious when an outsider professes such concern for me. Like the administrator of AMFA. What is his expertease in aviation?



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The SRP/OSM program of Farming Out mechanic and related work within AA''s own facility is the same as farming it outside of that facility. If that work was to be accomplished at a lower cost outside of the facility AA would do so. Taxiing of aircraft has nothing to do farming out work. To taxi an aircraft with mechanics on board is part of their job. With passengers on board it becomes the pilots work. But the APA is not part of your beloved AFL-CIO so they must be monkeys also, just like you indicated the those card signers are. The APA formed it''s own union.  YOu must not be a TWU man because if you hate welders and facility maintenance, you must hate stock clerks and fleet service also. You must be a company man.

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Why does AA require that only pilots or like certified pilots from other airlines do run-up/taxi when there are paxs on board? That would not have something to do with safety , would it? Yet when there are AA mechs on board there is no such limitation. As I said apparently we don''t count. As the pilot''s contract is more secret than anything homeland security cooks up I suppose that you may be right. However doing run-up is no more a pilot''s job exclusively than it is a mech''s. How many times have you gone out on a run-up even when there was no real need for your presence? I a finally got bored and had one ear ache too many and begun to stay in the hangar.

My point is of course that given the above, the pilots should demand that all run-ups be done by them only, not farmed out in house to lesser paid individuals.

Where did I ever said that I hate welders? I can''t weld worth a damn, and could not earn a cup of cafe doing it. My point is that YOU hate anyone who''s job can''t be justified at the A&p rate and whose position is therefore not contracted out at whatever the company can negotiate.

If you feel like a monkey then be my guest. As I said, you and RV4 should start reading between the lines, or you are going to trip over every glib propaganda line they throw at you, if you keep taking words literal.

See the FAQ about the RTW legislation on the OKDoL web site. It says in so many words that any contract negotiated after September 25, 2001, shall not require membership in a union. Now how many people in TULE would pay $700+ a year to be represented by any union? I know RLA protects us, so far.

You might stop refering to anyone and everyone you don''t agree with as socialist, pinko, communist etc. If my writing strikes you as communist then you have obviously never met any.




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No I do not hate mechanic and related who do not earn A&P wages. If I hate anthing it is the loss of democracy that the TWU breeds. That the mechanic and related have to fund the other ground workers at the expense of their signature and responsibility. The big peice of the pie that the company throughs out at negotiations is always in the favor of the fleet service. Even under the TWU concessions that we must endure now, the mechanic and related took a larger concession than fleet service. Fleet Service has it''s own responsibilities and can negotiate for themselves. They do not need the mechanics help.


As for RTW, Randy McDonald and your beloved TWU has done more in Oklahoma and throughout this country to lower wages.

Your union, the TWU has origins connected to the communists. Therefore the Constitution of the TWU is based on their Socialists theory.​

 

[j7915]

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On 6/1/2003 12:23:44 AM Buck wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 10:01:29 PM j7915 wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 1:05:27 PM Buck wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 1101 AM j7915 wrote:


Must have hit a very sensitive nerve if all you can come back with is "Farms Out In House"? So maybe airplane should never be taxied by mechanics as that function is already reserved for pilots only, when there are paxs aboard, it is OK for a mechanic to do taxi/run-up with just a few fellow mechs aboard? We don''t count?????


As to the welder, if the shoe fits wear it. I get suspicious when an outsider professes such concern for me. Like the administrator of AMFA. What is his expertease in aviation?



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The SRP/OSM program of Farming Out mechanic and related work within AA''s own facility is the same as farming it outside of that facility. If that work was to be accomplished at a lower cost outside of the facility AA would do so. Taxiing of aircraft has nothing to do farming out work. To taxi an aircraft with mechanics on board is part of their job. With passengers on board it becomes the pilots work. But the APA is not part of your beloved AFL-CIO so they must be monkeys also, just like you indicated the those card signers are. The APA formed it''s own union.  YOu must not be a TWU man because if you hate welders and facility maintenance, you must hate stock clerks and fleet service also. You must be a company man.

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Why does AA require that only pilots or like certified pilots from other airlines do run-up/taxi when there are paxs on board? That would not have something to do with safety , would it? Yet when there are AA mechs on board there is no such limitation. As I said apparently we don''t count. As the pilot''s contract is more secret than anything homeland security cooks up I suppose that you may be right. However doing run-up is no more a pilot''s job exclusively than it is a mech''s. How many times have you gone out on a run-up even when there was no real need for your presence? I a finally got bored and had one ear ache too many and begun to stay in the hangar.

My point is of course that given the above, the pilots should demand that all run-ups be done by them only, not farmed out in house to lesser paid individuals.

Where did I ever said that I hate welders? I can''t weld worth a damn, and could not earn a cup of cafe doing it. My point is that YOU hate anyone who''s job can''t be justified at the A&p rate and whose position is therefore not contracted out at whatever the company can negotiate.

If you feel like a monkey then be my guest. As I said, you and RV4 should start reading between the lines, or you are going to trip over every glib propaganda line they throw at you, if you keep taking words literal.

See the FAQ about the RTW legislation on the OKDoL web site. It says in so many words that any contract negotiated after September 25, 2001, shall not require membership in a union. Now how many people in TULE would pay $700+ a year to be represented by any union? I know RLA protects us, so far.

You might stop refering to anyone and everyone you don''t agree with as socialist, pinko, communist etc. If my writing strikes you as communist then you have obviously never met any.

 

[j7915]

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On 6/1/2003 12:02:51 AM RUM@AA wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 1101 AM j7915 wrote:


I stand by my belief that signing AMFA certification cards, is giving a monkey with a machine gun ammunition, you never know where he will aim.


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Who is the monkey? The membership????? Oh yes, by all means we cannot have the membership deciding who their union should be. Noooo we need the likes of you and Jim Little to decide what's best for us, Comrad j7915.



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Actually I am refering to the people who are going to be convinced for any number of reasons, at the moment of voting, that AMFA will be better than what they have. Look at NWA, and Alaskan, are the majority there really better of? Or is this a trade between greed of a few versus well being of many?

Not convinced? After hearing and telling, far too many sexist/racist jokes around the work place, how come so many voted for honor and decency in the White House? Hipocracy, spur of the moment decision? Is the country better of? Clinton's approval rating is climbing, Dubya's... ( the foregoing is as an example to the question whether the membership is stupid, no, we can all be swayed one way or the other. Would the F/A have voted the TA down? Would the mechs in a re-vote? Maybe they will anyway, because we are swayed by emotion to some degree all the time.)

Many decent jobs and the economy does well, greedy few and you are contradicting Henry Ford's famous $5 per day initiative.

Alternatively, remember the question about the two most deadly things around? Doctors with Bonanzas and monkeys with machine guns. Are you going to say that doctors are not intelligent? Yet their accident rate clearly points to narrow niches of stupid behavior, namely in their case, translating their God like authority in the medical field, to the realm of aviation. Where their income gets them into trouble quickly.

Hell may actually be a fun place, lots better company than the self righteous arrogance of RV4 and Buck for starters, and you of course.

 

[RUM@AA]

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On 5/31/2003 9:12:41 AM Checking it Out wrote:


&amfa was in town on Friday.
Mis-statement #1...Lee Seham was in town from New York, Dan Cunningham from AFW. ALL OTHERS WERE DISGRUNTLED LOCAL 514 TWU MEMBERS! And for damn good reason.

The TWU members attended the meetings to dispel any lies, threats and Intimidations amfa is famous for! I understand it was a complete surprise and immediately their cell phones lit up to call in reinforcements. It was kind of comical, from what I’m hearing.

Mis-statement #2...TWU E-board members on PAID UNION BUSSINESS were there along with some AFL-CIO stooges and one guy who claimed to be a NWA Mechanic, never gave his name, and pulled the same childish crap the TWU idiots did. Selected individual instances to try and dis-credit the AMFA and Lee Seham....like why didn''t he show up at the Braniff bankruptcy hearing? His answer was straight forward...he wasn''t assigned to the case. Then they attacked the man''s father who wasn''t even there to defend himself.
You say things like "I understand" and "I heard" as if you weren''t there, Come on Rick, I saw you there! And BTW not one TWU supporter not on UB was present.
Here''s a question for you CIO, Why did then TWU ATD System Co-ordinator John Orlando cross the Flight Attendant''s picket line in 1994 to fly on American Airlines? He is a F##KING SCAB!!! I demand an answer! It doesn''t matter that you were not there. It doesn''t matter even if you weren''t an AA employee or TWU member at that time. I DEMAND THAT YOU ANSWER FOR SCAB JOHN ORLANDO!!!! NOW

I understand the noon meeting was very interesting. Amfa lost control and Seham was so frustrated, He was visibly shaking and started personally attacking Individuals and eventually left.

Yes, stupid childish questions from idiots like you usually do frustrate intellegent educated individuals like Lee Seham.

I hear Cunningham from AFW was also present and got carried away. This is Interesting since he holds his alliance with amfa and is running for office with the TWU Local! Sounds like another Bob Owens clone!

Funny how anyone who eventually gets fed-up with the TWU''s sellouts and back door deals with the company earns your contempt. I guess you''ll be happy to just keep selling out and selling out and selling out. As long as you get that UB pay f##k everyone else.

Just watch the card count CIO, your days are numbered

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[RV4]

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On 5/31/2003 10:01:29 PM j7915 wrote:

As to the welder, if the shoe fits wear it. I get suspicious when an outsider professes such concern for me. Like the administrator of AMFA. What is his expertease in aviation?

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What does "expertease" mean? I cannot locate the word in the on-line dictionary.

You make reference to being suspicious of the "outsider" professing concern for YOU.

Are all of those politicians you like to trust "insiders"? Is your new found and trusted friend Arpey and "insider" now that he told you he wouldn't pursuit Baseball Style Arbitration?

Tell us, how does one become a qualified "insider"?

TWU - AAmerican's Real Strength

 

[Checking it Out]

The Debate In Tulsa
At the meeting Friday I understand it was real difficult for Mr. Seham to determine which hat he was wearing! Management, Fleet Service or Mechanics!
I understand he implied that the Flight Attendants and Fleet Service was Inferior. He commented the Flight Attendants were not Professionals! This is why they were not wanted in the Pilots Union years ago. From what I understand later, he commented the Fleet Service Professionals do not deserve to Vote in the Mechanic and Related Contracts. It is Kind of hard to understand this Idea when amfa represents both and currently is working on organizing some of them! Sounds like amfa is willing to say anything to get a card signed! MONEY?
Seham also was bragging about Writing the PFAA New Contract. I think the PFAA should be calling to find out about the Comments! I hear he was commenting about charging the locals 8000 dollars a month for 120 hours of service and the contract was in 3 or 4 months increments and than 67 dollars an hour afterwards. It is obvious by the Alaska Contract what happens when you hire cheap Representation!
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen provides representation in every aspect of labor, transportation, commercial, administrative and immigration law. The firm also engages in the following areas of practice: Labor & Employment Law (NLRB & RLA matters). Transportation Law (Aviation & Maritime). Real Estate Law (Commercial & Residential Real Estate Transaction). Immigration & Naturalization Law. Corporate & Administrative Law. Trademark & Copyright Law. Plaintiff & Defense Litigation. Preventative Advice.
Our firm is committed to providing professional and cost-effective services, a commitment, which is reflected in the role, our lawyers play as counsel to a number of airline organizations, energy corporations, investment banks, freight forwarders and vessel operators. We are available to represent your organization and hope that you familiarize yourselves with our firm.
Why is every part of The Administrators of amfa involve in Management and Real Estate Functions! Sounds like a brother-in-law program to me?
Just a Note! amfa at Alaska has a mechanic Helper classification. The same as an OSM at AA. NW has the same Classification called Singapore! $8 dollars an hour!
TWU SOLIDARITY!
Do not be fooled! Amfa’s goal is to conquer, divide and Farm-out work!

 

[RUM@AA]

CIO says: Do not be fooled! Amfa’s goal is to conquer, divide and Farm-out work!

That's right, farm out the work of the people that pay your dues. That way their won't be any dues paying members of AMFA. That must be their ultimate plan. Now do you hear how STUPID that sounds?
And when referring to the meeting on Friday, stop saying "I understand" and "I heard". If you weren't there then shut the hell up. That's called hearsay and is inadmissable.
I "heard" that you were actually Jim Little himself! Collecting $141,000 a year of TWU member's dues money to screw over the M&R membership. I "understand" that you're a card carrying member of the Communist Party of America.

 

[j7915]

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On 6/1/2003 6:32:20 AM RV4 wrote:

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On 5/31/2003 10:01:29 PM j7915 wrote:


As to the welder, if the shoe fits wear it. I get suspicious when an outsider professes such concern for me. Like the administrator of AMFA. What is his expertease in aviation?


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What does "expertease" mean? I cannot locate the word in the on-line dictionary.


You make reference to being suspicious of the "outsider" professing concern for YOU.


Are all of those politicians you like to trust "insiders"? Is your new found and trusted friend Arpey and "insider" now that he told you he wouldn''t pursuit Baseball Style Arbitration?


Tell us, how does one become a qualified "insider"?


TWU - AAmerican''s Real Strength

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Sorry RV4, I don''t use a spell checker too often, and I don''t have Webster''s loaded on my PC or a link to it on line. Just figure out what I meant, in what context was that mis-spelled word found? I suppose that you do have some reasoning ability. If I were interested in publication quality writing I would have gone into journalism. As it stands I consider this forum an informal discussion, no footnotes or $10 words, and general references is all you are going to get from me.

As to the remainder of your post, as always, read between the lines. AMFA wants to represent only A&Ps, you are not an A&P, so what is in it for you? Like Kevin Mc, doing it out of the goodness of your heart?

Do I trust politicians? Are you nuts? I take them based on their current usefullness, I don''t like them or dislike them, they are people who''se help you take advantage of when it is useful and appropiate. Likewise for management.

I almost forgot, you become an insider by being one. In your case how about an A&P? Or you could start talking about supporting all ground support groups, it does take all of us to get airplanes off the gate.

 

[RV4]

I understand that someone heard from a guy who was at the meeting that j7915 and checking it out were both actually at the meeting and they are twins from different mothers.

And to top that, I heard from another guy who understands that they were both paid UBU from union dues money to be off work and atttend the meeting.

One more, I heard from one guy, who went to visit the aliens on another planet and returned with data that suggest the TWU had to bring stock clerks to the meeting to boost their numbers because mechanics no longer support them.

 

[Buck]

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Hell may actually be a fun place, lots better company than the self righteous arrogance of RV4 and Buck for starters, and you of course.


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J7915:

I would hope that you are asking the readers here to "READ BETWEEN THE LINES"? What you mistake self righteousness and arrogance is actually freedom. Just because we do not adhere to your way of thinking, you would prefer to live in hell. How did RV4 put it?, You need to seek some help. I do not mean EAP either. More members are beginning to see for themselves that thinking for themselves is the only way to go. It is only a matter of time and I guess you already have reservations for your eternity.

 

[Checking it Out]

TWU - American''s Real Strength

It Does have a Nice Ring to It!


TWU SOLIDARITY!

 

[Buck]

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On 6/2/2003 551 AM Checking it Out wrote:


TWU - American''s Real Strength

It Does have a Nice Ring to It!


TWU SOLIDARITY!


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Why would you want to be the carriers strength?

Does that mean that you would gladly give more concessions to strengthen the company as needed?