Dark Wrench
Member
- Aug 30, 2002
- 44
- 0
Even though im layed off, went to the meeting. Found it to be very informative.
I was surprised to see so many people in attendance.
I was surprised to see so many people in attendance.
Amfa Meetings
- Thread starter Dark Wrench
- Start date
High Iron
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 495
- 0
I've always been a big believer in them and their philosophy, so I at first thought attending would be unnecessary...or so I believed. After seeing/hearing them delivering info and answering questions first hand I was very very impressed: Professional, focused, knowledgable, and very well prepared. To call them a class act would be quite an understatement.
Jet Mechanic
Member
- Sep 13, 2002
- 50
- 0
It was tough to get to the AMFA informational meeting this afternoon in CLT after working the midnight shift, but it was well worth my time. O.V. Delle-Femine and his team spoke clearly of what their vision was for professional mechanics. The questions posed by those in the audience were insightful and answered in depth by the AMFA representatives. Answers were backed up with actual contracts from NW for all to view.
I urge all to find out more about the choice facing us as mechanics. Compare the open representation of AMFA with our present secretive representation. Ask questions of our current union; compare it with what AMFA offers. Make an informed decision based on facts.
Jet Mechanic
I urge all to find out more about the choice facing us as mechanics. Compare the open representation of AMFA with our present secretive representation. Ask questions of our current union; compare it with what AMFA offers. Make an informed decision based on facts.
Jet Mechanic
Checking it Out
Veteran
- Apr 3, 2003
- 1,702
- 0
Local Autonomy?
Except when it comes to needing Money or help!
They say you do, but the reality is all unions are controlled by the National Union's leadership. AMFA is no different. The control that the National Union has over the union membership is repeatedly spelled out in AMFA's new constitution. These provisions in AMFA's constitution aren't put there by mistake. They are designed to guarantee that all Local Unions set up by AMFA remain under the absolute final control of AMFA's National leadership. And, you would be legally bound to follow AMFA Constitution. Here's what AMFA's constitution says:
Article II, Section 1, AMFA's National Director (O.V. Delle-Femine) has the power to "grant charters, preside over the approval of Local Bylaws and the assigning of new Locals to the region in which they can be best represented."
Article II, Section 4, AMFA's National Treasurer has the power "to audit the books of any or all Locals, with due cause as determined by a majority vote of the National Executive Council and upon his demand a Local shall turn over to him all such books and records."
Article VIII, Section 9, spells out the power that AMFA's National Executive Council has over any of its Local Unions: "A Local shall be subject to revocation or expulsion for any of the following actions or omissions:
1. Failure to perform duties as provided in this Constitution
2. Violation of any provisions of this Constitution
3. Insubordination with respect to valid orders or directives of Officers and/or Convention of the National Association
4. Circulation of libelous or slanderous statements concerning any officers or members of this Association
5. Failure to otherwise carry out the legitimate objectives of this Association."
Article VIII, Section 10: Local Union officers can be put on trial and reprimanded, removed from office, or suspended from office for any of the following offenses: "incompetence, negligence, or insubordination in performance of duty or refusal or failure to perform duties validly assigned."
They say you will run your own union? Yes, AMFA's constitution guarantees you that you will have the right to vote on your local union matters, and local union leadership, but the reality is, even at the Local Union level, you will have very little say in "union affairs." Article IX, Section 5 provides suggested quorum rules (the minimum number of Local members who must be present at any meeting to conduct Local Union business). For Locals with more than 1750, but less than 2000 members, as few as 17 people can constitute a quorum. Almost all of AMFA's voting is decided by a majority of people actually attending a meeting. This means that as few as 9 employees can make significant decisions affecting union affairs and your job.
If AMFA got voted in, who do you think would end up as your local union leaders? In reality, the people who are currently pushing the Union will very likely end up as your Local Union leaders. Look around. Are these really the people you want having enormous power over your job rights?
Ask Alaska Mechanics what happens when they are promised Attorneys during Negotiations?
Ask them about Baseball style Negotiations?
Ask them about their Future Retirement plans?
Except when it comes to needing Money or help!
They say you do, but the reality is all unions are controlled by the National Union's leadership. AMFA is no different. The control that the National Union has over the union membership is repeatedly spelled out in AMFA's new constitution. These provisions in AMFA's constitution aren't put there by mistake. They are designed to guarantee that all Local Unions set up by AMFA remain under the absolute final control of AMFA's National leadership. And, you would be legally bound to follow AMFA Constitution. Here's what AMFA's constitution says:
Article II, Section 1, AMFA's National Director (O.V. Delle-Femine) has the power to "grant charters, preside over the approval of Local Bylaws and the assigning of new Locals to the region in which they can be best represented."
Article II, Section 4, AMFA's National Treasurer has the power "to audit the books of any or all Locals, with due cause as determined by a majority vote of the National Executive Council and upon his demand a Local shall turn over to him all such books and records."
Article VIII, Section 9, spells out the power that AMFA's National Executive Council has over any of its Local Unions: "A Local shall be subject to revocation or expulsion for any of the following actions or omissions:
1. Failure to perform duties as provided in this Constitution
2. Violation of any provisions of this Constitution
3. Insubordination with respect to valid orders or directives of Officers and/or Convention of the National Association
4. Circulation of libelous or slanderous statements concerning any officers or members of this Association
5. Failure to otherwise carry out the legitimate objectives of this Association."
Article VIII, Section 10: Local Union officers can be put on trial and reprimanded, removed from office, or suspended from office for any of the following offenses: "incompetence, negligence, or insubordination in performance of duty or refusal or failure to perform duties validly assigned."
They say you will run your own union? Yes, AMFA's constitution guarantees you that you will have the right to vote on your local union matters, and local union leadership, but the reality is, even at the Local Union level, you will have very little say in "union affairs." Article IX, Section 5 provides suggested quorum rules (the minimum number of Local members who must be present at any meeting to conduct Local Union business). For Locals with more than 1750, but less than 2000 members, as few as 17 people can constitute a quorum. Almost all of AMFA's voting is decided by a majority of people actually attending a meeting. This means that as few as 9 employees can make significant decisions affecting union affairs and your job.
If AMFA got voted in, who do you think would end up as your local union leaders? In reality, the people who are currently pushing the Union will very likely end up as your Local Union leaders. Look around. Are these really the people you want having enormous power over your job rights?
Ask Alaska Mechanics what happens when they are promised Attorneys during Negotiations?
Ask them about Baseball style Negotiations?
Ask them about their Future Retirement plans?
High Iron
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 495
- 0
What...you want us to go TWU?Checking it Out said:
I find nothing disagreeable in that which you quote from the AMFA constitution.
"Baseball" arbitration?
That question came up regarding Alaska's mechanics;
- It wasn't "baseball" arbitration, wherein the judge chooses the union's OR the company's offer in winner take all fashion ( as proposed by MCain et al )...and in any case, it was by the membership's choice.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Dear USAir Employees,
Please excuse me for butting in.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIO,
Why don’t you go back to your own agenda, and leave these people alone.
USAir mech’s will do as what is in their own best interest.
Will you AFL/CIO Lackeys ever learn?
If you do not serve your ‘MEMBERSHIP’!
The ‘MEMBERSHIP’ will boot your ass out !!!
Mechanics & Utility
(UAL – Case In Point!!!)
UT
Please excuse me for butting in.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CIO,
Why don’t you go back to your own agenda, and leave these people alone.
USAir mech’s will do as what is in their own best interest.
Will you AFL/CIO Lackeys ever learn?
If you do not serve your ‘MEMBERSHIP’!
The ‘MEMBERSHIP’ will boot your ass out !!!
Mechanics & Utility
(UAL – Case In Point!!!)
UT
N513AU
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 219
- 0
Yeah, the MIA IAM listens to their membership. We voted no. We would have rather shot the horse and taken the whole ship down than take a paycut or give up the no-furlough clause. If they had broken the union, we should have broken the company. If they had fired us, we should have implemented a scorched-earth policy. A real union would have said "hell no!" to US Airways and take any means necessary to bully the company.UAL_TECH said:
A union is supposed to have muscle, the power to intimidate and the ability to make and carry out threats. Unions in the early 1900s were unions, not this pansy crap we have now. Not give in. Never give in. I lost all respect for the IAM the day they decided for a second vote. :down:
I don't know if AMFA is a better deal than the IAM, but anything is better than the "institutional" unions we have now. They are all about their own coffers and self-interest, not about confronting companies. Where were the riots? Where was the monkey-wrenching? Where was the protests? Where were the mechanics blocking jetways, airport entrances and taxiways? Where was the industry-wide cooperation to stop this layoff insanity?! A national transportation strike might have made Washington pay attention and put a stop to the slaughter of millions of careers. Seeing how the IAM is just a wing of the democractic party, they would never do anything to jeapordize their cozy, fat and lazy existance.
I think I'd vote for the plumbers union over the IAM
jetmechline
Member
- Aug 22, 2002
- 96
- 0
Checking it Out Posted: Aug 23 2003, 12:58 PMChecking it Out said:
Advanced Member Local Autonomy? Except when it comes to needing Money or help!
If AMFA got voted in, who do you think would end up as your local union leaders? In reality, the people who are currently pushing the Union will very likely end up as your Local Union leaders. Look around.Are these really the people you want having enormous power over your job rights?
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
I have looked around and I would say YES. Our so-called IAM leadership has betrayed us for years! Bill Lieberger is nothing more than a local joke. Frank is nothing more than a company Yes man! These two self-serving idiots have devastated the mechanics ranks at U S Airways and they expect fools, such as you, to try to convince us otherwise!
I would welcome the opportunity to give anyone who is dedicated to advancing the mechanics position at U S Airways a chance to do so. I’M convinced that this current leadership is nothing more than,†Dave Siegel’sâ€, co-conspirators, hell bent on getting mechanics wages back to pre 1990 wages.
For their co-operation, the “Farting Machinist†are guarantied that they will be the legal representational union of Mid Atlantic airlines. Not exactly 30 pieces of silver but close enough!
P.S.
Unlike the pilots and flight attendants at U S Airways, theâ€FARTING MACHINISTâ€, did not get job guaranties for its membership at Mid-Atlantic Airlines.
T-bone
Advanced
- Feb 15, 2003
- 239
- 2
Fella's wake up. Do be pissed off but be fair and be honest. The airline down turn put every one in the industry in an terrible place. Moat had no choice, survival pure and simple. Appearantly none of you listened to your own amfa spiell. the national will do nothing for you. That means it's up to you. The same people who never attend union meeting or support your own union. Sure you can have all the attorneys you want from the national, but your local pays for them. We at Usairways still have our work, it's in our scope, where is the work at North west and at United since amfa took over. Be honest it's gone. You mock the I.A.M. but lets be honest here amfa is probably paid for by the company how else would could it be explained that loosing all your heavy maintenance was good for you. They say there is no chance of decertification during a run off, that it never happened before. Well thats a pure lie because every one knows it happened here to the baggage handlers and at Delta to the flight attendants. So you say your switching for truth, well ask them about those little nuggets. Ask them who gets the money when a grievance is won. The answer is the union not the person infringed upon. It's on their web site check it out. Ask them how they would handle senority in the event of a buy out. Remember when they where campaining for united when united was looking to by usairways they said make us your union and we will put usairways people at the bottom of the senoirity list. ? Why do you have such faith in such liars?
High Iron
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 495
- 0
More fun than swatting dying flies:
T-bone spake: ( " )
"Fella's wake up. Do be pissed off but be fair and be honest. The airline down turn put every one in the industry in an terrible place. Moat had no choice, survival pure and simple. Appearantly none of you listened to your own amfa spiell."
And your own version of what's what is not a spiell [sic]?
"the national will do nothing for you"
Oh really? As opposed to our own vaunted national?
"The same people who never attend union meeting or support your own union."
Ah yes, the old "YOU are the union" plattitude.
"Sure you can have all the attorneys you want from the national, but your local pays for them"
Wow, the IAM national was free and we never knew it!
"We at Usairways still have our work, it's in our scope"
Doesn't look good, does it though ace? The same kind of bravado a patron of a sinking ship might feel as his feet are dry at the moments before it goes under.
"where is the work at North west and at United since amfa took over..
Be honest it's gone."
Take honesty to heart: UAL was a recent event...you probably would blame an incoming president for an earthquake that occurs on January 21st. Northwest? I'd say a limit of __38% of total labor cost__ is better than the previous IAM contract of no limits...and scads better than the much touted ( by the IAM ) limit of UAL's IAM __20% of the maintenence budget__
"You mock the I.A.M."
I might, but right now you're doing a far better job...thanks.
"but lets be honest here amfa is probably paid for by the company how else would could it be explained that loosing all your heavy maintenance was good for you."
Probaby? Yeah I'm sure the presently AMFA represented carriers were salivating over the prospect of AMFA being certified...that explains the contentious contract negotiations which followed...all for show I'm sure. What say you to IAM allowing UAL the right to "loosing" ( didn't know they were so tight to begin with! ) 100% of their heavy maint?
"They say there is no chance of decertification during a run off, that it never happened before. Well thats a pure lie because every one knows it happened here to the baggage handlers and at Delta to the flight attendants. So you say your switching for truth, well ask them about those little nuggets"
What's that got to do with the price of ball bearings in Schweinfurt? History isn't exactly rife with AMT ( mechanics ) voting "none of the above" is it now snappy?
"Ask them who gets the money when a grievance is won. The answer is the union not the person infringed upon"
No different than the present. Can you prove otherwise?
"Ask them how they would handle senority in the event of a buy out."
We did. Dovetail. Was that the answer you wanted to hear? Can't help you if it wasn't.
"Remember when they where campaining for united when united was looking to by usairways they said make us your union and we will put usairways people at the bottom of the senoirity list"
Oh yes. Being a newshound, and directly affected, you bet I did. Even though AMFA was not the bargaining agent ( though an election was near...the 2nd...foiled by IAM inspired gerrymandering ) the question was nonetheless posed. The answer? Dovetail. UAL mechanics themselves were less sanguine however...as one would expect them to be given the situation...and quite vocal I might add- given the comments on various BB's.
"Why do you have such faith in such liars?"
I don't. Who is lying?.....or grossly misinformed
T-bone spake: ( " )
"Fella's wake up. Do be pissed off but be fair and be honest. The airline down turn put every one in the industry in an terrible place. Moat had no choice, survival pure and simple. Appearantly none of you listened to your own amfa spiell."
And your own version of what's what is not a spiell [sic]?
"the national will do nothing for you"
Oh really? As opposed to our own vaunted national?
"The same people who never attend union meeting or support your own union."
Ah yes, the old "YOU are the union" plattitude.
"Sure you can have all the attorneys you want from the national, but your local pays for them"
Wow, the IAM national was free and we never knew it!
"We at Usairways still have our work, it's in our scope"
Doesn't look good, does it though ace? The same kind of bravado a patron of a sinking ship might feel as his feet are dry at the moments before it goes under.
"where is the work at North west and at United since amfa took over..
Be honest it's gone."
Take honesty to heart: UAL was a recent event...you probably would blame an incoming president for an earthquake that occurs on January 21st. Northwest? I'd say a limit of __38% of total labor cost__ is better than the previous IAM contract of no limits...and scads better than the much touted ( by the IAM ) limit of UAL's IAM __20% of the maintenence budget__
"You mock the I.A.M."
I might, but right now you're doing a far better job...thanks.
"but lets be honest here amfa is probably paid for by the company how else would could it be explained that loosing all your heavy maintenance was good for you."
Probaby? Yeah I'm sure the presently AMFA represented carriers were salivating over the prospect of AMFA being certified...that explains the contentious contract negotiations which followed...all for show I'm sure. What say you to IAM allowing UAL the right to "loosing" ( didn't know they were so tight to begin with! ) 100% of their heavy maint?
"They say there is no chance of decertification during a run off, that it never happened before. Well thats a pure lie because every one knows it happened here to the baggage handlers and at Delta to the flight attendants. So you say your switching for truth, well ask them about those little nuggets"
What's that got to do with the price of ball bearings in Schweinfurt? History isn't exactly rife with AMT ( mechanics ) voting "none of the above" is it now snappy?
"Ask them who gets the money when a grievance is won. The answer is the union not the person infringed upon"
No different than the present. Can you prove otherwise?
"Ask them how they would handle senority in the event of a buy out."
We did. Dovetail. Was that the answer you wanted to hear? Can't help you if it wasn't.
"Remember when they where campaining for united when united was looking to by usairways they said make us your union and we will put usairways people at the bottom of the senoirity list"
Oh yes. Being a newshound, and directly affected, you bet I did. Even though AMFA was not the bargaining agent ( though an election was near...the 2nd...foiled by IAM inspired gerrymandering ) the question was nonetheless posed. The answer? Dovetail. UAL mechanics themselves were less sanguine however...as one would expect them to be given the situation...and quite vocal I might add- given the comments on various BB's.
"Why do you have such faith in such liars?"
I don't. Who is lying?.....or grossly misinformed
Jet Mechanic
Member
- Sep 13, 2002
- 50
- 0
For all the rhetoric in this thread, I sure wish Checking It Out had shown up at one of the AMFA informational meetings. He/She could have put Mr. Delle-Femine and his team on the spot; actually gotten an answer. These men didn't shirk the questions at the 3:45PM meeting I attended.
In the comparison between the IAM and AMFA, I find the openness and professionalism of AMFA to be highly refreshing. And another thing... when a member votes on an agreement, AMFA takes the membership at their word. There is NO second vote unless the offer has changed. THAT is how it should be! The IAM lost me big time in the vote fiasco and showed their true colors. The IAM does NOT listen to its membership. And, no I will not wear the silly buttons.
By the way, can anyone tell me more about this website that Checking It Out had on his message:
www.the-mechanic.net
Most of the site is not operational. Who is behind this site? No where do I see who is responsible for it. I would think whoever is putting it together could have been more original in their web address; it's plagerism at its finest when it is one word removed from the renowned www.the-mechanic.com site. By the way, is there going to be an open discussion board on this new website? Now, that would be something!
Jet Mechanic
In the comparison between the IAM and AMFA, I find the openness and professionalism of AMFA to be highly refreshing. And another thing... when a member votes on an agreement, AMFA takes the membership at their word. There is NO second vote unless the offer has changed. THAT is how it should be! The IAM lost me big time in the vote fiasco and showed their true colors. The IAM does NOT listen to its membership. And, no I will not wear the silly buttons.
By the way, can anyone tell me more about this website that Checking It Out had on his message:
www.the-mechanic.net
Most of the site is not operational. Who is behind this site? No where do I see who is responsible for it. I would think whoever is putting it together could have been more original in their web address; it's plagerism at its finest when it is one word removed from the renowned www.the-mechanic.com site. By the way, is there going to be an open discussion board on this new website? Now, that would be something!
Jet Mechanic
Checking it Out
Veteran
- Apr 3, 2003
- 1,702
- 0
Taking the Membership at their Word?
Welcome to AMFA Watch Dogs - The truth is out there!!
AMFA Watch Dogs bring you the truth about AMFA dispelling the lies and half-truths and exposing their misrepresentation.
AMFA Local 17 Disregards Members Vote with National's Assistance.
August 14, 2003
The AMFA 17 purposed to the members some time ago to purchase a projector for the contract negotiations at Horizon Air for $2400. The membership voted this down. However the Local Officers mainly Jerry Holiday, Airline Rep.; Sig Sigardson, President; and Dave Johnson, Vice-President, disregarded what the membership had said and obtained this projector anyway.
Exactly how did they do this? Well O.V. Delle Femine purchased it on his personal credit card and is leasing it to Local 17 for $200 per month for 11 months with an option to make a 12th payment of $100 and it would belong to the local.
This sure doesn't seem like the Democracy that AMFA proclaims. Instead it looks more like a dictatorship than anything else with the backing of the National and O.V. Delle Femine, the National Director. The corruption and deceit go all the way to the top with this association.
Not to be topped by just deceiving the membership the Local 17 made it's first payment to O.V. Delle Femine only for the check to be sent back stating that they needed to make it out to AMFA National.
So now lets put all the players in their places -
Local 17 members vote against the purchase of a projector.
Local Officers make a deal with O.V. Delle Femine to purchase it anyway.
Signs a lease with AMFA National for the projector (With a lease to buy clause)
First payment is made to O.V. Delle Femine but returned to be made out to AMFA National (because Delle was reimbursed by National)
Local 17 is still purchasing the projector from AMFA National despite the memberships vote.
The one question other than the disregard for the membership is, why can't AMFA National just let Local 17 borrow it for as long as they need to? and why does AMFA National feel they need to make a profit off of the Locals?
I would have thought that these kinds of things would have been covered with the 30% of the dues that is being sent back to AMFA National but apparently not. Local 17 has had to pay thousands of dollars for services form the McCormick Advisory Group and Legal Council with no help form AMFA National. The only thing AMFA National has helped Local 17 with is going behind the membership's back and spending money that was not authorized by the membership.
There is no democracy in AMFA!
Check for Yourself!AMFA Watchdogs
Welcome to AMFA Watch Dogs - The truth is out there!!
AMFA Watch Dogs bring you the truth about AMFA dispelling the lies and half-truths and exposing their misrepresentation.
AMFA Local 17 Disregards Members Vote with National's Assistance.
August 14, 2003
The AMFA 17 purposed to the members some time ago to purchase a projector for the contract negotiations at Horizon Air for $2400. The membership voted this down. However the Local Officers mainly Jerry Holiday, Airline Rep.; Sig Sigardson, President; and Dave Johnson, Vice-President, disregarded what the membership had said and obtained this projector anyway.
Exactly how did they do this? Well O.V. Delle Femine purchased it on his personal credit card and is leasing it to Local 17 for $200 per month for 11 months with an option to make a 12th payment of $100 and it would belong to the local.
This sure doesn't seem like the Democracy that AMFA proclaims. Instead it looks more like a dictatorship than anything else with the backing of the National and O.V. Delle Femine, the National Director. The corruption and deceit go all the way to the top with this association.
Not to be topped by just deceiving the membership the Local 17 made it's first payment to O.V. Delle Femine only for the check to be sent back stating that they needed to make it out to AMFA National.
So now lets put all the players in their places -
Local 17 members vote against the purchase of a projector.
Local Officers make a deal with O.V. Delle Femine to purchase it anyway.
Signs a lease with AMFA National for the projector (With a lease to buy clause)
First payment is made to O.V. Delle Femine but returned to be made out to AMFA National (because Delle was reimbursed by National)
Local 17 is still purchasing the projector from AMFA National despite the memberships vote.
The one question other than the disregard for the membership is, why can't AMFA National just let Local 17 borrow it for as long as they need to? and why does AMFA National feel they need to make a profit off of the Locals?
I would have thought that these kinds of things would have been covered with the 30% of the dues that is being sent back to AMFA National but apparently not. Local 17 has had to pay thousands of dollars for services form the McCormick Advisory Group and Legal Council with no help form AMFA National. The only thing AMFA National has helped Local 17 with is going behind the membership's back and spending money that was not authorized by the membership.
There is no democracy in AMFA!
Check for Yourself!AMFA Watchdogs
Jet Mechanic
Member
- Sep 13, 2002
- 50
- 0
Checking It Out,
You're using your "copy/paste" function rather than engaging in an informative discussion. I was really looking forward to answers to my questions regarding the new web site, not more trash from AMFA dogs.
Keep up the good work; you allow for professional mechanics to really see what the IAM is like.
Jet Mechanic
You're using your "copy/paste" function rather than engaging in an informative discussion. I was really looking forward to answers to my questions regarding the new web site, not more trash from AMFA dogs.
Keep up the good work; you allow for professional mechanics to really see what the IAM is like.
Jet Mechanic
