ALPA/USAPA topic of the week

[BoeingBoy]

It might help with your understanding.

This one entry is all that's needed:

Seabury Group Commences “Quietâ€￾ Private Equity Solicitation for Merger Transaction ..... Early April

Nos wants to know what HP brought to the merger? They brought the merger. Without that, none of what followed would have been possible. That's what the "timeline" says - how much of the total from outside investors was committed to after the merger became part of the picture???

One only needs to follow the monthly cash reports filed with the BK court - US was running out of money.

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I understand just fine. That is why the report is titled: USAirways reorganization and merger with America West Airlines.

America West was the cause, the reorganization was the effect.

After reading the link provided by 700uw. Followed by the timeline of Seabury, it is all coming together. If in fact Lakefield and Parker were talking merger 18 months prior to announcement, which I believe was before BK2. I am more convinced than ever the whole BK2 and pension termination was pre-planned. It only makes sense that if we merged with a DB plan intact, I guess you guys would have screamed like banshees for "I want mine". USAirways could barely afford our plan much less adding the west to it. So spare me the I saved you attitude. It never has carried water over here and never will.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

One only needs to follow the monthly cash reports filed with the BK court - US was running out of money.

On purpose? or by design? Interesting.

 

[ableoneable]

After reading the link provided by 700uw. Followed by the timeline of Seabury, it is all coming together. If in fact Lakefield and Parker were talking merger 18 months prior to announcement, which I believe was before BK2. I am more convinced than ever the whole BK2 and pension termination was pre-planned. It only makes sense that if we merged with a DB plan intact, I guess you guys would have screamed like banshees for "I want mine". So spare me the I saved you attitude. It never has carried water over here and never will.

I don't believe that I have once uttered the "we saved you" b.s.

I was simply responding to the question; What did America West bring to the merger.

BK2 was necessary. USAir did not have the funds to continue operating. The concessions that the company demanded, and that your union reps approved, may well have been a condition of the merger. I believe Parker publicly said as much. He told USAir that they needed to have pilot costs that approached HPs for him to consider a merger. Had you not conceded and the merger not surfaced USAir would just be gone by now.

I think I have now answered Nos's non sequitur about what America West brought to the merger.

So how about answering my original question.

... please explain how this arrangement, an employed pilot trading places with a furloughed pilot, is not a windfall for the east pilot group.

 

[ableoneable]

On the other hand -

I am pretty sure that Doug's ambition is what drove the merger. Had the east brought their pay down to the current level but held onto their pensions maybie Parker would have gone forward anyway.

In that scenario you would still have your pensions and we would all have had just a little more leverage with which to bargain. (With the company I mean, that is after all what this is supposed to be about.)

 

[nostradamus]

I don't believe that I have once uttered the "we saved you" b.s.

I was simply responding to the question; What did America West bring to the merger.

BK2 was necessary. USAir did not have the funds to continue operating. The concessions that the company demanded, and that your union reps approved, may well have been a condition of the merger. I believe Parker publicly said as much. He told USAir that they needed to have pilot costs that approached HPs for him to consider a merger. Had you not conceded and the merger not surfaced USAir would just be gone by now.

I think I have now answered Nos's non sequitur about what America West brought to the merger.

So how about answering my original question.

... please explain how this arrangement, an employed pilot trading places with a furloughed pilot, is not a windfall for the east pilot group.

What did america west bring to the merger beside an alcoholic ceo?

Some may consider this personal but I have facts to back it up.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

On the other hand -

You might be right. I just wish I was given a chance to vote on the DB plan. The way the MEC was played.......Oh well.

That's the problem. Many of us are so springloaded, ALPA could say anything and in my mind it has to be a lie until proven truthful.

 

[ableoneable]

What did america west bring to the merger?

LOL

Points for being funny.

I see you edited your post back to the original question.

Re-read the thread I guess. I think the question has been asked and answered.

 

[nostradamus]

You might want to check your "facts"......

RP's investment was only going to come upon BK exit, unlike ZW's DIP financing which converted to an investment upon exit (and ZW's DIP money was gone within 1-1/2 months of receipt of the final installment).

At the end of May 2005, US was down to about $200 million in spendable cash after losing $40 million that month alone. Spendable cash was low enough that US had to ask the ATSB for further relief from the "cash collateral" provisions of the loan agreement - the third such request.

Jim

page two jimbo, seabury solicites ameria west as a hedge to stand alone plan

 

[nostradamus]

Your quote unable

"I see. If you are this deluded the only thing I could do to convince you would be to produce the minutes of the boardroom discussions at the time of the merger. Unfortunately I am unable to do that so you will continue to live under the assumption that USair was going to continue hemorrhaging cash yet survive indefinitely."


You assume, you are an idiot sir.

 

[ableoneable]

Your quote unable

"I see. If you are this deluded the only thing I could do to convince you would be to produce the minutes of the boardroom discussions at the time of the merger. Unfortunately I am unable to do that so you will continue to live under the assumption that USair was going to continue hemorrhaging cash yet survive indefinitely."


You assume, you are an idiot sir.

Another non answer, only this time I get called an idiot.

Your logic is unassailable. Your arguments unanswerable. Your no-fly list undoubtedly long.



p.s. Still waiting for an answer to the original question.

 

[nostradamus]

Another non answer, only this time I get called an idiot.

Your logic is unassailable. Your arguments unanswerable. Your no-fly list undoubtedly long.



p.s. Still waiting for an answer to the original question.

Still waiting for mine. What did america west and your alcholic ceo bring to the usairway merger? If you assume something that you have no proof for, I can only assume you are ignorant of the facts.

 

[BoeingBoy]

page two jimbo, seabury solicites ameria west as a hedge to stand alone plan

Oh yeah - the mythical "standalone" plan. The one called the "transformation plan" when US entered BK2. The same one that was based on oil prices that didn't exist when your quoted item enters the timeline. Could it be that the "standalone" plan was becoming less and less realistic as time went on?

So Nos - with all you "wisdom" - why did US go with the merger if this so-called "standalone plan" was so great? Or do you, like AAA73Pilot, think US was losing all that money 5 months after employee concessions were in place just for the fun of it.....

Jim

 

[ableoneable]

Still waiting for mine. What did america west and your alcholic ceo bring to the usairway merger? If you assume something that you have no proof for, I can only assume you are ignorant of the facts.

I was treating you as an adult and a professional, my bad.

If you can read you will see that I have made no assumptions. I only point this out because you seem fixated on the point.

"Unfortunately I am unable to do that so you will continue to live under the assumption that USair was going to continue hemorrhaging cash yet survive indefinitely."

If you read it slowly you will see that I was accusing you of accepting a false premise; the assumption that USair was going to continue to operate without money.

Apparently you missed that last three pages of the thread. I think a pretty good case has been made that without America West there would be no USAir. I may have not been able to offer definitive proof but the preponderance of the evidence indicates that it is thus.

I see that it does not matter what I say because you will undoubtedly respond with "What did America West bring besides and alcoholic CEO? This is not personal. I have facts."

Really? Haven't heard one yet.

I disagree with AAA73 but at least he seems to be able to have a discussion.

You have a monologue, and not a very good one.

 

[nostradamus]

Oh yeah - the mythical "standalone" plan. The one called the "transformation plan" when US entered BK2. The same one that was based on oil prices that didn't exist when your quoted item enters the timeline. Could it be that the "standalone" plan was becoming less and less realistic as time went on?

So Nos - with all you "wisdom" - why did US go with the merger if this so-called "standalone plan" was so great? Or do you, like AAA73Pilot, think US was losing all that money 5 months after employee concessions were in place just for the fun of it.....

Jim

I provided links to the stand alone plan. You call it mythical, provide a link please to debate this.

You have your opinion, along with 767 and unable. We all have opinions jim and we sit on them quite frequently. You are resting your head inside yours. Links, jim. Proof. This is not the OJ trial.