ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[EastUS]

They both specify DOH in the seniority section, so I guess the company has not had any heartburn with DOH so far.

Clearly; neither did the AWA pilots have any heartburn, at least untill it didn't suit them when other "United ALPA Fellow Pilots".."Brothers and Sisters" became involved, naturally. Only at that point did their "Righteous Position" against DOH surface. Some/Any might wonder as to what possible reasons their own seniority list was based upon DOH, given all the vehement BS that's been posted since last May constantly trumpeting the supposed virtues of "relative" thinking/seniority.

DOH has been the source of abject ridicule from the west...yet..they found it the most reasonable and logical manner to establish their own seniority with? I must be missing something.....

Ah well: Let's Vote.

 

[nostradamus]

ALPA offers competitive salaries with superior benefits, including:

* 26 days paid vacation and holidays per year,
* generous sick and bereavement leave,
* company-paid premiums for family health care (medical, dental, and vision for employee, spouse, and dependent children) and life insurance,
* $2 for $1 matching 401(k) retirement savings plan,
* flexible spending accounts, and
* retiree health plan eligibility after 18 years of service (over 45% of our employees have been here ten years or more

 

[nostradamus]

Representation: Over the decades, ALPA pilot groups have negotiated scores of contracts with hundreds of airlines. Today, ALPA staff offers its members the finest financial analysis available, in-depth knowledge of the Railway Labor Act (the legislation that governs airline pilot contracts), and the legal experience to defend pilot contracts. By leveraging the combined resources of all union members, ALPA is able to bring unmatched expertise to bear on matters affecting its members' salary, benefits, and working conditions.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow Pilots,

Several reporters forwarded a letter to us today authored by what we trust is the outgoing bargaining agent. The contents and tone of the letter were dishonest and designed to incite. The only positive I am able to report to you was that this ‘mud ball’ was signed in Herndon and not by a fellow US Airways pilot. The key complaint seems to center around the lanyards competition (score one for USAPA) and an incident where a loyalist from ALPA’s FPL bus tour crashed a get-together sponsored by the deposed PHL reps and successfully baited one of the attendees into a trivial altercation.

The letter alleges company favoritism towards USAPA and allegations of thuggish behavior by unnamed “USAPA supporters.â€￾ The tactic behind the communication is transparent; the letter is nominally addressed to Mr. Parker but was immediately transmitted to multiple media outlets hoping to generate news items critical of USAPA for you to read in the newspaper. Communications of this sort from the four-letter acronym are clear evidence to us that the battle of ideas has been conceded in Herndon, VA.

We promised you things would get interesting.

To our most senior pilots, all of us at USAPA want to thank you for your incredible support during the past 10 months. If there was ever any doubt as to our solidarity as a pilot group, those of you who were not affected by the arbitration mess have put that issue to rest. The NMB cards and financial contributions sent by our most senior pilots have exceeded our wildest expectations and we thank you. USAPA would like to return the favor by extracting all of us from ALPA merger policy before management sells the airline, again.

I believe it would be useful to draw back from the passion of the moment and consider why we are at this fork in the road. For the volunteers and officers of USAPA, we believe the issue at hand is repeated representational failures by the existing bargaining agent. The Nicolau mess was just the latest.

One month to freedom!


Mark Thorpe
Interim VP

 

[nostradamus]

At all levels of ALPA, pilots make decisions through the democratic process. All decisions start with our pilot groups. Each pilot group consists of all the pilots at a given airline. Pilot groups exercise considerable autonomy in governing their own internal affairs, such as negotiating contracts, enforcing those contracts, and discussing issues of concern with their companies.

 

[EastUS]

Life is so much more palatable with it- kind of like a ketamine induction...

I'll have to take your word for that.

"In fact, maybe we will selectively place all east pilots hired before 2002 below the newest newhire on the property." Sounds remarkably similiar to your current game plan. Not to worry; more actual years of flying and living may well change your attitude somewhat. If not? At least you'll have a far more legitimate claim to seniority by then.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Relax there AAA73Pilot. My question was the first one on post 109. Your question puzzles me though. If USAPA wins there are no "2 USAPA MEC's" only one board of directors.

That's right I forgot about that. I will give you credit, good point. As for post 109. I believe I answered your questions then.

 

[nostradamus]

15 years of mission failure. Same old song and dance.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow pilot,

As a reminder, USAPA will hold our fourth Road Show tomorrow, March 19th from 9am to 4pm in the PHX Airport Terminal 4 Conference Room, (near gate B25). USAPA Officers, volunteers and legal representatives will be in attendance to answer your questions.

Video from both previous Road Shows is now available in the Road Show section of the USAPA web site.

Thank you for your continuing support.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Whose contract does Nic reside in? You're correct if you said neither.

One can only assume that you're as unfamiliar with your contract as you were with the the vote on E190 pay. Perhaps a stroll through Section 1 would be in order. Nic, or the process that led to it, is in both contracts as well as the TA. Neither the actual Nic award nor combined list is contained verbatim in any of those documents since they predate the actual award, but neither are the Shuttle award/list, PI award/list, PSA award/list, etc. Do you claim that those are invalid because they're not enunciated in the contract? Or is this another case of selectively choosing what applies and what doesn't?

What is the transition agreement? You are correct if you answer it is an ALPA derived document to merge 2 ALPA MEC's.

And apparently as unfamiliar with the transition agreement, since you've claimed several times that it "only" provides a process to merge the two MEC's. The TA is as much a part of the contract as LOA 93 and they both modify several sections of the underlying contract. More specificly, there is nothing in the TA apecificly outlining the process for merging the 2 MEC's - that is strictly a union function. However, there is much about merging the two pilot groups and the contract changes that will exist during the transition from 2 separate airlines to one airline with one pilot group.

Where does Nic reside? You are correct if you answered in the TA.

See above for how wrong you are.

I posted that ALPA attorneys said the TA disappears if USAPA wins. Figure it out yet? Enough said.

How convenient - according to you the only thing that ALPA says that is believable is that the TA disappears. Everything USAPA says is true except the one inconvenient statement that the TA doesn't disappear. So as above, the TA is a part of the contract that USAPA will inherit if it wins the election.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

alpa website quote, to future pilots. Too late for us, not for the future pilots. Use your wisdom to shape their future.

"Pilots are known to have compensation comparable to doctors and lawyers, but those salaries come with years of experience and seniority."

alpa website, a pilots life propaganda.


You have the ability to end this pattern of abuse of power by voting with your conscience, not your fears or comfort level. Courage.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Neither the actual Nic award nor combined list is contained verbatim in any of those documents since they predate the actual award, but neither are the Shuttle award/list, PI award/list, PSA award/list, etc. Do you claim that those are invalid because they're not enunciated in the contract? Or is this another case of selectively choosing what applies and what doesn't?

We disagree, oh well. What else is new? As for all the previous mergers. Yes they are spelled out. It's called our active seniority list. Which lives within our current contract.

 

[nostradamus]

Quotes from the america west pilot alpa web site.

"Following the seniority arbitration, the East MEC filed a lawsuit against the West MEC in D.C. District Court. In accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, ALPA has accepted financial responsibility for defending this lawsuit and has paid our merger attorney, Jeff Freund, for his time on this case dating back to May of last year after the ruling was issued."

"Pursuant to Section 26.F.5 of the contract, pilots have the ability to replace uniform components at company cost. All pilots are entitled to one pair of pants, one tie and two shirts. Additionally, every fourth year pilots can replace one hat, one coat and one set of epaulets."

"Company Discriminates Against ALPA."


america west alpa pilots web site, click here.

 

[BoeingBoy]

We disagree, oh well.

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. It's just sad watching the horse die of thirst beside the water trough......

Jim

 

[sharktooth]

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. It's just sad watching the horse die of thirst beside the water trough......

Inappropriate analogy.

73pilot makes the right arguments for unrelated reasons. You seem to be trying to correct him, then, make a comment that "salvation is right next to the pilot group". Are you talking about ALPA being the savior? ptui. Sorry, left a bad taste in my mouth.

I wonder that USAPA will inherit the TA but, due to C&BL changes, will not be able to comply with certain parts of the TA. Of course, a merger agreement will then not be bound to those parts of the TA that conflict with the C&BL.