US ALPA/USAPA/West Thread for week of 3/22-29

[BoeingBoy]

How did you vote on loa 93 and why?

"No" and because I thought the concessions were more than necessary given the money wasted by management decisions. You didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway - the only things I voted "Yes" on since before Schofield was CEO were the votes (2 as I remember) on assessments to pay for medical coverage for the furloughed pilots.

Since you asked, it's my turn - was that you who had his daughter hold that "Let my daddy vote" sign?

Jim

 

[EastUS]

So USAPA won't need a negotiator in your opinion - professional or otherwise. The company just sends their proposals straight to the pilots for a vote. Interesting concept, but it should save some fpl from all those negotiations that won't be needed......

Jim

A rather large leap on your part sir. I made/make no mention of dismissing negotiations as a vital tool. I WOULD however, like to see actual negotiators work such things, versus a handfull of wanna'-be-career-politicians/amateur buffoons from Alpa. Speaking of "vital tools"..shal we revisit Alpa's "Best and Brightest" via the Give Away Gang again?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How did you vote on loa 93 and why?

So far I have only found 6 who voted for LOA93. 2 are retired now. To this day I can't believe it really passed. But oh well, I subscribe to the conspiracy theory of ALPA on the property and Pollock who was in charge. Vote fraud under ALPA? Heaven forbid. It's a simple lack of trust.

BTW. I voted no. Not because I didn't believe the leaders, but for the simple fact it didn't have snap back provisions. In fact if USAPA is put in the position of negotiating a concessionary contract, if it doesn't have snap backs, I will vote no on that one also.

 

[nostradamus]

"No" and because I thought the concessions were more than necessary given the money wasted by management decisions. You didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway - the only things I voted "Yes" on since before Schofield was CEO were the votes (2 as I remember) on assessments to pay for medical coverage for the furloughed pilots.

Since you asked, it's my turn - was that you who had his daughter hold that "Let my daddy vote" sign?

Jim

I did not have daughters, thank god, because I do not have to try to understand women.

Jim, Is it true that the CLT based pilots had the highest percentage of pilots that voted for a concessionary contract for the last ten years?

This is the base you belonged to and it is a loaded question.

A lot of USAPA leaders are from CLT, which makes them more courageous in my opinion.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A rather large leap on your part sir. I made/make no mention of dismissing negotiations as a vital tool.

My mistake - I assumed that negotiators would mean actually negotiating an agreement that would be voted on, not merely passing along company proposals for a vote (which is what you said you supported as long as the union made a counterproposal).

"Can I assume that you believe every company proposal, just like the one that became LOA 93, should go out for a membership vote?" You most certainly may sir, given that any such should be accompanied by a counter proposel first

That sure sounds like "company proposal, union counterproposal, vote on company proposal" to me......


Jim

 

[EastUS]

"No" and because I thought the concessions were more than necessary given the money wasted by management decisions. You didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway - the only things I voted "Yes" on since before Schofield was CEO were the votes (2 as I remember) on assessments to pay for medical coverage for the furloughed pilots.

I'll offer that as a fine argument in favor of democratic proceedings. Despite our diamtrically opposed views otherwise..our voting records on those issues are identical. I do find it curious that you evidently now think it fully appropriate to staple said furloughed pilots below the most junior AWA new hire..but that's a never-ending source for debate.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So far I have only found 6 who voted for LOA93.

Or perhaps admit to voting for it.....

I subscribe to the conspiracy theory of ALPA on the property

As do those who believe in the gunman on the grassy knoll, the faking of the moon landings, government spraying of chemicals from high altitude airplanes, etc. Who knows, maybe they're all right.

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow pilot,

We're guessing you’re as fed up with the masses of mail arriving from ALPA as we are. The recycling bin is filled with unopened, very expensive materials, paid for out of our dues. This is all so that, quoting the ALPA President, “our fellow pilots will realize how much they are valued as our Union sisters and brothers." We're feeling the love. As a fellow pilot commented, “If ALPA is that great, why do they have to spend my dues money to send me (stuff) telling me how great they are? Wouldn't we know it already?â€￾

Rather than add to the inundation of your mailbox with multiple mailings, we thought we'd send you a bit of a "clean-up" piece, addressing (roughly in reverse order of receipt) the various missives we've seen. Because this update deals with many subjects, it jumps around just a bit; we were as succinct as possible dealing with each item but there are a few… here we go…

We’ve just become aware of the fact that an old internal email in which we are discussing our progress with insurance products and Aeromedical was apparently made public. Aside from the error someone made in putting it out, the email simply shows the level of concern we’ve had that the pilots receive the products and services they deserve. Some of this has been, as you can imagine, long and hard work, and not without bumps in the road that, at the time, caused us concern; sometimes one has to light a big fire to get things moving. Bottom line, the email’s moot; ALPA said we’d never get the insurance. We got it. ALPA said we’d never get the Aeromedical. We got it, along with our own Aeromedical doctor, and we’re proud of how hard we’re working on behalf of the pilots. Much ado about nothing.

Speaking of emails, as we were putting the finishing touches on this one we received a plea from the ALPA CO MEC Chairman. Ironically, we have received several contacts from both CO and NWA pilots interested in decertifying ALPA. Further, just hours after the Chairman’s letter arrived, we received a detailed letter from a CO Line Pilot that he titled, “The Truth About ALPA at Continental.â€￾ We believe you will find it very enlightening; it is attached and you can also click here to read it.

Again referencing the CO Chairman’s letter, we believe that US Airways pilots have already formed their own opinion as to whether “ALPA is the better choice to safeguard and advance (our) futures and (our) families’ futures.â€￾ This goes hand-in-hand with another dues-supported ALPA piece that goes on at length about ALPA advice. It is our belief that the pilots of US Airways are more than capable of determining for themselves the quality of the advice and support they have received from ALPA; after all, we're reminded every 15th and 30th, and will get another big reminder the day we "retire."

With regard to legalities, we're guessing none of the professional pilots at this airline have found it necessary to drop a dime (anytime in their career) to ALPA National to find out if they're legal to fly. Should a pilot have a question regarding legality, USAPA has the very same toll-free Contract Hotline support that has been in place for years.

Pilots are reminded that their membership standing with ALPA has no bearing on their right to vote in the upcoming election – all pilots have a right to vote. If you have not received your Voting Instructions from the NMB, please immediately open the attachment (or click here) and follow the instructions to requesting duplicate Voting Instructions.

Recently, in a transparent attempt to reduce decades of failed representation down to a few sound bites, the ALPA MEC Chairman suggested a debate. In his letter there were a couple of comments with which we agree, and those are that, "...there exists an alarming level of misinformation..." and, "... pilots have the right to make an informed decision before they cast their vote." Ironically, the misinformation referenced is not emanating from USAPA; space does not permit us to list the dues-supported misinformation the pilot group receives several times per day. The pilots have everything before them to decide whether maintaining the status quo is in their best interest, and they will inform us of that decision on April 17th.

Regretfully, in a recent communication, ALPA has again decided to resort to fear, innuendo and outright falsehoods. Attempting to tie ALPA's negotiating failure known as LOA 93 to USAPA, they say that it's "no secret" that certain groups will have positions of influence at USAPA. We find this interesting on several levels. First, negotiating at USAPA will be done by a professional negotiator. Second, while it will be up to the Board of Pilot Reps to choose the members of the Negotiating Advisory Committee and therefore we do not yet know the makeup of that committee, there are a couple of things we do know - you won't being seeing the current ALPA Negotiating Committee Chairman's name in the USAPA roster anytime soon, and the former Negotiating Committee Chairman indicated some time ago that the pilots would be better served by "new faces" and therefore requested that he not be considered. We agreed. Finally, we will let the pilots make their own judgment as to the talent pool at USAPA (click here for the latest USAPA staffing and structure).

If you sort through your recycling bin, you'll find a recent ALPA mailing making it clear that the current ALPA R&I Reps have decided their allegiance belongs to ALPA and not the pilots. The other issues raised in that missive were addressed previously by Empowered Benefits, one of the service administrators chosen by USAPA. (Click here to read.) Addressing the cost of plan administration, "Fees charged to the USAPA plan may be less than or more than those being charged to the ALPA plan (depending on money managers used, the mix of investments chosen by plan participants, etc), but should not differ, either more or less, from fees being charged to the ALPA plan by more than 10 basis points (1/10 of 1%). The money management companies work for the retirement plan sponsor and the relationship can be terminated or altered by the plan fiduciaries at their discretion."

Pilots are reminded to return their USAPA Membership and Dues Check-off forms as soon as possible (please see attached). Dues check-off will not start until after USAPA is elected, and ALPA dues check-off will terminate automatically, there is no overlap. LTD and MIL pilots are exempt from dues. If you still have it, please use the envelope provided in the mailing 2 weeks ago, if not, please send to the address at the bottom of each form (one envelope is fine). It is important to get these forms in prior to April 17th to be sure pilots are included in pre-paid services such as Aeromedical. Dues check-off is a personal decision. The Officers of USAPA are asking that you please choose dues check-off initially... if you want to opt out later you can do so. It is important to get our cash flow up and running when we take office.

ALPA continues to discuss “circuit breakersâ€￾ and “firewalls,â€￾ images designed to make you feel safe, and insinuating that the Award can somehow be put into effect after a USAPA win. This is, quite simply, false. Please read “The Myth of Separate Operationsâ€￾ for more information.

We understand emotions are running high amongst all pilots and we ask everyone to continue to demonstrate the utmost professionalism as the turning point for US Airways pilots approaches. USAPA does not condone inappropriate communication of any type, and this includes inappropriate communications between union leaders and management. Regarding stickers and lanyards, proudly display your lanyard if you like - or not (we have many "stealth" supporters which suits us just fine!) Bag tags & stickers are all great, again, if you like. A reminder though, please do not post stickers of any type on Company or other property (such as in hotels or jetways). We ask that if you find stickers inappropriately posted (regardless of the source), you remove them.

Paraphrasing ALPA’s missive on “The Contract You Deserve,â€￾ It’s been 30 months since US Airways emerged from bankruptcy and merged with America West. In the meantime, ALPA has demonstrated they are hopelessly deadlocked, unable to produce anything but empty promises and innuendo.

Benjamin Franklin said it best, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.â€￾

It’s time to try something new. Join us.

 

[EastUS]

Or perhaps admit to voting for it.....


As do those who believe in the gunman on the grassy knoll, the faking of the moon landings, government spraying of chemicals from high altitude airplanes, etc. Who knows, maybe they're all right.

Agreed on the first, although it must be noted that the real possibility exists that 57% did NOT in fact vote for that mess. As per the second? I find my own credulity strained by most any conspiracy theory, but; it hardly takes believing in any extra gunman on any knoll to perceive the massive corruption inherent in Alpa...merely a moment's observation suffices nicely therein.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I did not have daughters, thank god, because I do not have to try to understand women.

LOL - I've got two daughters (long since grown up) so understand the fairer sex well enough to say "Yes ma'am" when appropriate.

Jim, Is it true that the CLT based pilots had the highest percentage of pilots that voted for a concessionary contract for the last ten years?

This is the base you belonged to and it is a loaded question.

I can't confirm the truth - maybe someone with access to the vote tallies over the years could supply the answer. It wouldn't surprise me if it were true though.

A lot of USAPA leaders are from CLT, which makes them more courageous in my opinion.

No way for me to agree or not - the price of being out of the loop and only having this place for judging sentiment among the pilot group. If the 3200 cards are any indication at all, however, I'd guess that a majority at every base sent in a card.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

LOL - I've got two daughters (long since grown up) so understand the fairer sex well enough to say "Yes ma'am" when appropriate.


I can't confirm the truth - maybe someone with access to the vote tallies over the years could supply the answer. It wouldn't surprise me if it were true though.


No way for me to agree or not - the price of being out of the loop and only having this place for judging sentiment among the pilot group. If the 3200 cards are any indication at all, however, I'd guess that a majority at every base sent in a card.

Jim

Good patient answers, thank you.

One more question, do you think the Nicolau award was a fair way to handle the seniority list? The only answers I will accept is Yes, No or abstain. Thank You. Consider my question, like the Wilson poll.

 

[EastUS]

LOL - I've got two daughters (long since grown up) so understand the fairer sex well enough to say "Yes ma'am" when appropriate.

Sound wisdom sir. It seems that we've an actual accord on a vital issue about living life

 

[BoeingBoy]

it hardly takes believing in any extra gunman on any knoll to perceive the massive corruption inherent in Alpa...merely a moment's observation suffices nicely therein.

Like I've said before, you won't get much disagreement from me when it comes to ALPA's faults. Most of our disagreement on the issue is over whether those who vote (or even more properly, those who don't bother to vote) share any blame for the outcome on any issue.

Right now, USAPA is the shiny new toy that'll make all the bad things go away. If I've learned nothing else in my 61+ years, however, it's that human nature and bureaucracy combine to produce undesirable results. As I've said before, the pilots make the union and not the other way around. If base reps are elected based on 10% or less of the eligible voters actually voting or are allowed to remain in power thru mutual back scratching, etc, nothing will ultimately change. Those interested in being in positions of power only because it gives them power will eventually get that power. Only an informed and involved pilot group can stop it from happening. The Nic award has motivated the East group for the time being. What happens with the union 2, 5, 10 years down the road is up to the pilots. Like any relatively democratic organization, ultimately the voters get the representation they deserve. Informed, involved voters usually get pretty good representation. When the vast majority of the voters don't care enough to be informed and involved, you get the few doing whatever they want (usually to the detriment of the many).

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

One more question, do you think the Nicolau award was a fair way to handle the seniority list? The only answers I will accept is Yes, No or abstain. Thank You. Consider my question, like the Wilson poll.

I'll give you the same answer I give every pollster I even bother taking the time to talk to - if that's the only answers you'll accept then you're not interested in my opinion but rather seeking to prove a pre-established view.

If you're really interested in my opinion, however, just ask for it (although my general views on the issue of integrating seniority lists is no secret).

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Right now, USAPA is the shiny new toy that'll make all the bad things go away. If I've learned nothing else in my 61+ years, however, it's that human nature and bureaucracy combine to produce undesirable results. As I've said before, the pilots make the union and not the other way around. If base reps are elected based on 10% or less of the eligible voters actually voting or are allowed to remain in power thru mutual back scratching, etc, nothing will ultimately change. Those interested in being in positions of power only because it gives them power will eventually get that power. Only an informed and involved pilot group can stop it from happening. The Nic award has motivated the East group for the time being. What happens with the union 2, 5, 10 years down the road is up to the pilots. Like any relatively democratic organization, ultimately the voters get the representation they deserve. Informed, involved voters usually get pretty good representation. When the vast majority of the voters don't care enough to be informed and involved, you get the few doing whatever they want (usually to the detriment of the many).

Jim

On that?..We fully agree. I'm obviously optimistic that a new union will at least establish a far better degree of pilot involvement for at least the forseeable future..which is as good as it ever gets.