ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[oldiebutgoody]

WRONG! Of course there is a benefit to those who chose not to become a member. First of all it will end up being approx. a 15% discount on union dues according to your illustrious leader Bradford. Secondly, if one felt it necessary to sue the U SAPS then one would not have to pay any assessments that would come up in defense of the union. It would be like feeding both attorneys at once.

Looking forward to tomorrow and interested in how the U SAPS plan on bringing unity to West and East!

Then save your 15%. I'd rather have a vote in my future. I hope ALL 1700 West guys think like you. That would make the East guys really happy, being able to just impose their will with no opposition!

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

There is no such thing as an Agency Fee Shop.

There is a closed shop and the Supreme Court ruled in Beck vs the CWA that employees in a closed shop can become dues objectors, therefore they are non-member agency fee payers.

 

[EastUS]

Maybe on the East side of ALPA but out West I know of no problem with membership voting at ALPA.

Blue skies.

I see. So; there's an "East side of ALPA" as well as West? I'd suppose that also indicates a Delta "side" of ALPA, as well as a Northwest "side" of ALPA?...based upon the "relative" ease those groups are/were having in attempting to merge? Of course; there's very clearly a UAL "side" as well......

Sheesh! It's hard to just keep count of all the "sides" of ALPA. Whew!...That ALPA's truly an awesome "National" Association, that ALPA is...Sure works miracles with it's "guidelines" and all. We can't fairly overlook the "United ALPA" BS that's been recently issued under the auspices of the "Fabulous Furry FUD Act". It DOES however seem that Delta folks feel a bit "More equal" than they think Northwest "United ALPA Fellow Pilots" are though..and..I won't even delve into the AWA's "United ALPA Fellow Pilots" notions of their East "Brothers and Sisters" worth......

ALPA: A pristine example of true unionism at it's very finest....What an utter joke, and a sad waste.

An "abuse" of Sir Winston's great words: "Never in the course of labor conflict, has so much been screwed up for so many, by so few".

 

[sharktooth]

Then save your 15%. I'd rather have a vote in my future. I hope ALL 1700 West guys think like you. That would make the East guys really happy, being able to just impose their will with no opposition!

I think what would make the east happy is for the west to understand that they will get DOH/LOS and that they should start yesterday conceiving appropriate "conditions and restrictions" for themselves.

I also feel that proceeding unilaterally would be a disaster no less than imposing the "nic". Every pilot of both sides needs to be heard and protections need erecting. There is a lot of work to be done.

USAPA does not need the "15%" but does need both the input and the vote.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There is no such thing as an Agency Fee Shop.

There is a closed shop and the Supreme Court ruled in Beck vs the CWA that employees in a closed shop can become dues objectors, therefore they are non-member agency fee payers.

Go to Google, and put in "agency shop" you'll see what it means. US Airways pilots are indeed an Agency shop. It only means that even though you are not required to be a union member, that you are required to pay the dues or a fee.

 

[L1011Ret]

I don't know why but this does not surprise me in the least.

http://wb3.alpaboards.org/wb/file.asp?file=Folks%2C%2Epdf


Council 90 UPDATE #2
!
!
3/16/2008!
THUGS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD!
Fellow Pilots,!
(Day seven of our bus tour of all our crew bases and day three in PHL.)!
During this bus tour our Communications chairman has been physically assaulted, a
picture of a KKK rally was sent by an USAPA member to an LEC member who is
African American and one of your fellow pilots complained of threats made by
USAPA supporters against him for not wearing a yellow USAPA lanyard. (He was told
they would visit him in the parking lot if he didn’t start wearing a yellow lanyard.)
Numerous pilots wearing yellow lanyards have hurled obscenities at us and we were
told we were not welcome in the crew rooms, as if USAPA owns them. (USAPA
functionaries have had unfettered access to our crew rooms.) We were standing in line at
a coffee shop in the terminal and a USAPA recruiter started lambasting us with four
letter words and crude language in front of female and young customers. An older
couple got their coffee and fled the scene before putting cream and sugar in their drinks
to get away from the commotion.!


These offenses were carried out by supporters of USAPA wearing yellow lanyards.
What a proud bunch they must be. Insults and criminal behavior are a poor substitute for
the honest and open exchange of ideas encouraged and practiced by ALPA. !
We can only assume from this thuggish behavior, that USAPA will not be a union
tolerant of dissent. Their entire representational structure will be appointed and it could
be eighteen months before an election is held.!
What will their local council meetings will be like? What if you express a contrary
opinion as many of you do at ALPA meetings? Will thugs meet you in the parking lot?
Will you be told you are not welcome? How will you be treated if you choose to run for
office against one of their appointed local council reps?!
I imagine their first MEC meeting as a Soviet Politburo meeting where the applause goes
on for hours since everyone is afraid to be the first one to stop clapping after the
Chairman’s rousing victory speech.!
We respect your right to disagree and dissent as you have for your entire career as
members of the Airline Pilots Association. We remind you that it is no one’s business
which union you vote for. We ask that you study the facts, examine the resources each
side has available and make up your mind with clear and unemotional reasoning. We
believe that ALPA offers the best path forward for you and your family and we will
be voting for ALPA.!
!
Fraternally,
Marshall Rogers Lance Svendsen Lyle Newmans
[email protected] [email protected] [email protected]!line

I'd never put my family on this airline. To hear some of the near psychotic thinking from men supposedly in charge of flying aircraft is downright scary. I'd bet if some of these posts got out to the media, there would not be any passengers on the aircraft. It seems like posters here often have no regard for how their posts might be regarded by more safety conscious people.

 

[EastUS]

I'd never put my family on this airline. To hear some of the near psychotic thinking from men supposedly in charge of flying aircraft is downright scary. I'd bet if some of these posts got out to the media, there would not be any passengers on the aircraft. It seems like posters here often have no regard for how their posts might be regarded by more safety conscious people.

Not to worry in that instance. Those "gentlemen" who scripted/signed that amusing missive are ALPA Lifers, who don't actually fly the line to the slightest extent worth speaking of.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Yet another fine example of how well Alpoid "process" and "guidelines" are well serving the industry's pilots:

"On Monday, Delta's pilots union said it had told company executives it can't agree on seniority issues with its counterpart at Northwest, raising serious doubts about the prospect of a combination of the two companies."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/18/news/compa...=rss_topstories

Umm...side issue, and admittedly petty: Wasn't there some UAL kid, that loved to frequently post here, forever touting that "the majority of pilots" were huge fans of relative "seniority"? One wonders why this "realative seniority" BS doesn't actually serve well within the slightest context of actual reality...anywhere.

You didn't see them ink a deal with doh and/or los and call it a day did you? They were free to do so if they wished, yet they didn't. How come, isn't that the only fair way?

 

[EastUS]

You didn't see them ink a deal with doh and/or los and call it a day did you? They were free to do so if they wished, yet they didn't. How come, isn't that the only fair way?

"You didn't see them ink a deal" Enough said.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I'd never put my family on this airline. To hear some of the near psychotic thinking from men supposedly in charge of flying aircraft is downright scary. I'd bet if some of these posts got out to the media, there would not be any passengers on the aircraft. It seems like posters here often have no regard for how their posts might be regarded by more safety conscious people.

William,
First of all, it's not hard to see an ulterior motive here, given the names on the letter. If these things did occur, I assure you that they WERE NOT sanctioned by USAPA or any other group. If these personal threats occurred, then why didn't someone call the police or security. That's what I would have done. Also, any sort of confrontation would have made the company news ASAP, and to date I have seen none. Therefore, I dare to say, that some "embellishment" has taken place in the account of events.

It's not hard to gather that you are an ALPA supporter, since all the majors that flew L1011s were ALPA carriers. You are entitled to your opinion. I would, however, take my name off of the profile page so that it isn't on everything you post.

 

[ClueByFour]

Then save your 15%. I'd rather have a vote in my future. I hope ALL 1700 West guys think like you. That would make the East guys really happy, being able to just impose their will with no opposition!

It's not going to happen, opposition or not. Shame if you think it will.

 

[b737fo]

Then save your 15%. I'd rather have a vote in my future. I hope ALL 1700 West guys think like you. That would make the East guys really happy, being able to just impose their will with no opposition!

Instead of imposing your will with opposition. Isn't that already going to happen? Look at the numbers of East vs. West. I hardly think that the East won't be able to try and get whatever they want. That is until down the road at a point when the numbers tip the other way after retirements.

 

[prechilill]

Instead of imposing your will with opposition. Isn't that already going to happen? Look at the numbers of East vs. West. I hardly think that the East won't be able to try and get whatever they want. That is until down the road at a point when the numbers tip the other way after retirements.

And then when we outnumber them we will reorder the seniority list again because as USAPA says, seniority is a creature of contract. In fact, maybe we will selectively place all east pilots hired before 2002 below the newest newhire on the property. Again, we have this right because seniority is a creature of contract and can justifiably be reorganized at will. The brain child of this new age thinking, Lee Seaham, should be around in five or so years to accomplish this rightful re-reordering. And after we get even fewer of them on the property, we can just make sure the whole right seat EMB190 fleet is filled with the easties hired before 2002- heck, we will just have an annual reordering of the list! Year after year! YES!!! I love this new found abstract thinking USAPA has invented. Life is so much more palatable with it- kind of like a ketamine induction...

 

[Bear96]

I see. So; there's an "East side of ALPA" as well as West? I'd suppose that also indicates a Delta "side" of ALPA, as well as a Northwest "side" of ALPA?...based upon the "relative" ease those groups are/were having in attempting to merge? Of course; there's very clearly a UAL "side" as well......

You've really never heard of an MEC?

 

[Piedmont1984]

And then when we outnumber them we will reorder the seniority list again because as USAPA says, seniority is a creature of contract. In fact, maybe we will selectively place all east pilots hired before 2002 below the newest newhire on the property. Again, we have this right because seniority is a creature of contract and can justifiably be reorganized at will. The brain child of this new age thinking, Lee Seaham, should be around in five or so years to accomplish this rightful re-reordering. And after we get even fewer of them on the property, we can just make sure the whole right seat EMB190 fleet is filled with the easties hired before 2002- heck, we will just have an annual reordering of the list! Year after year! YES!!! I love this new found abstract thinking USAPA has invented. Life is so much more palatable with it- kind of like a ketamine induction...

Or.....when you outnumber us you will have accumulated some real years in this industry, you will be senior by virtue of your time on the job, also known as LOS. Gradually, more and more of you will realize that what you have earned the long and hard way is worth preserving.