ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[EastUS]

http://crewroom.alpa.org/awa/DesktopModule...ocumentID=42422

"The election period is upon us, and the prognostications as to who will win and why are coming in from all sides. The fact of the matter is that it will most likely turn on the votes of a few hundred East pilots who have maintained a rational mindset about this election." I'm guessing that it'll be more a case of a few thousand that have, but no matter. This is another fine example of patronizing Alpoids self-setting the bar for what's "rational" I suppose. We'll have the results within a month in any case.

"This issue of The Dirt on Decert is directed at our East brothers and sisters." Very kind of you to take the time and trouble "brothers and sisters".

Here's my favorite part:

"Should you have the opportunity to speak with one of our East co-workers, this issue can serve as a template for your conversation." Well folks..it seems that your very own Alpoids think it fit to assume you to be people of very modest intelligence, that can't establish your own thoughts and arguments independant of some printed "guidance" from them. Just an observation.

I suppose that the bulk of any real dialog cannot be expected to occur untill after the voting.

 

[nostradamus]

http://web.mac.com/dvcapture/USAPA/PHX.html

Very courageous effort from Steve Bradford, Mark King and Scott Theuer of USAPA The actions of the mob group of america west pilots was expected. They were pilots hired by the an airline that was bottom of the barrel, the pilots actions during a meeting with the mature original US Airways pilots reflect that.

 

[nostradamus]

america west pilots undercut real pilots for years, click here for the wages of pilots infor.

The moderator allowed a video that animated the USAPA union pilots, this is my retort.



you undercut pilot pay for years america west pilots, click here this bud is for you.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Very courageous effort from Steve Bradford, Mark King and Scott Theuer of USAPA The actions of the mob group of america west pilots was expected. They were pilots hired by the an airline that was bottom of the barrel, the pilots actions during a meeting with the mature original US Airways pilots reflect that.

What can you say about the mob in the room? No class.

Later,
Eye

 

[Pi brat]

Ahhh - another "fact" is born.....

Jim

Jim,

Didn't the combined financing that the merger brought in allow both ATSB loans to be paid off, at a profit to Uncle Sam?

 

[JetMonkey]

Kinda reminds me when Prater came to talk to you guys right after the award came out. You all were a pretty hostile mob too. I remember watching that vid and you could hear alot of "yeah, we'll decertify your a$$" in the background. Maybe Leo's right about everyone choosing who they'll be that day, and today I choose to be pissed at usapa.

 

[700UW]

Sharktooth,

Sorry I posted my post after working last night.

The amended and restated US Airways and AWA loans entered into on September 27, 2005 that had previously been guaranteed by the ATSB. On October 19, 2005, $777 million of the loans, of which $752 million had been guaranteed by the ATSB, was sold by the lenders by order of the ATSB to 13 fixed income investors, removing the ATSB guarantee. At the time of repayment of these loans on March 31, 2006, the total outstanding balance of the loans was $801 million, of which $551 million was outstanding under the US Airways loan and $250 million was outstanding under the AWA loan.

Then US borrowed over $1 billion from GECAS and paid off those loans and now owe GECAS.

On March 31, 2006, US Airways Group entered into a loan agreement with General Electric Capital Corporation (“GECC”) and a syndicate of lenders pursuant to which the Company borrowed an aggregate principal amount of $1.1 billion. On April 7, 2006, US Airways Group entered into an amended and restated loan agreement, which increased the principal amount of the loan to $1.25 billion (as amended and restated, the “GE Loan”). US Airways, America West Holdings, AWA, Piedmont, PSA and MSC are all guarantors of the GE Loan.

The GE Loan bears interest at an index rate plus an applicable index margin or, at the Company’s option, LIBOR plus an applicable LIBOR margin for interest periods of one, two, three or six months. The applicable index margin, subject to adjustment, is 1.50%, 2.00%, 2.25%, or 2.50% if the adjusted loan balance is respectively less than $600 million, between $600 million and $750 million, between $750 million and $900 million, or between $900 million and $1.25 billion. The applicable LIBOR margin, subject to adjustment, is 2.50%, 3.00%, 3.25%, or 3.50% if the adjusted loan balance is respectively less than $600 million, between $600 million and $750 million, between $750 million and $900 million, or between $900 million and $1.25 billion. In addition, interest on the GE Loan may be adjusted based on the credit rating for the GE Loan as follows: (i) subject to clause (ii) below, if the credit rating for the GE Loan is B1 or better from Moody’s and B+ or better from Standard & Poor (“S&P”) as of the last day of the most recently ended fiscal quarter, then (A) the applicable LIBOR margin will be the lower of 3.25% and the rate otherwise applicable based upon the adjusted GE Loan balance and (B) the applicable index margin will be the lower of 2.25% and the rate otherwise applicable based upon the adjusted GE Loan balance, and (ii) if the credit rating for the Loan is Ba3 or better from Moody’s and BB- or better from S&P as of the last day of the most recently ended fiscal quarter, then the applicable LIBOR margin will be 2.50% and the applicable index margin will be 1.50%. The GE Loan matures on March 31, 2011, and no principal payments are scheduled until maturity.

In addition, the GE Loan requires certain mandatory prepayments upon certain events, establishes certain financial covenants, including minimum cash requirements and maintenance of certain minimum ratios, contains customary affirmative covenants and negative covenants, and contains customary events of default. Under the GE Loan, US Airways Group is required to maintain consolidated unrestricted cash and cash equivalents of not less than $750 million, subject to partial reductions upon specified reductions in the outstanding principal amount of the GE Loan.


On March 31, 2006, proceeds of the GE Loan were used, in part, to repay in full the following indebtedness:

• The amended and restated US Airways and AWA loans entered into on September 27, 2005 that had previously been guaranteed by the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (“ATSB”). On October 19, 2005, $777 million of the loans, of which $752 million had been guaranteed by the ATSB, was sold by the lenders by order of the ATSB to 13 fixed income investors, for which Citibank, N.A served as agent, removing the ATSB guarantee (the “Citibank Loans”). At the time of repayment of these loans on March 31, 2006, the total outstanding balance of the loans was $801 million, of which $551 million was outstanding under the US Airways loan and $250 million was outstanding under the AWA loan. Proceeds were also used to pay $15 million of accrued interest and fees on the US Airways loan, and $8 million of accrued interest and $5 million of prepayment penalty on the AWA loan.

• The $161 million loan entered into as of September 27, 2005 between US Airways and AWA and Airbus Financial Services, for which US Airways Group was the guarantor. At the time of repayment on March 31, 2006, the outstanding balance of the loan was $161 million. US Airways and AWA also had an $89 million loan from Airbus Financial Services entered into as of September 27, 2005. In accordance with the terms of the loan agreements, the outstanding principal amount of the $89 million loan was to be forgiven on the earlier of December 31, 2010 or the date that the outstanding principal amount of, accrued interest on, and all other amounts due under the Airbus $161 million loan were paid in full, provided that the Company complied with the delivery schedule for certain Airbus aircraft. As a result of the prepayment of the $161 million loan

 

[nostradamus]

There is cut and paste and there are links.



Facts vs paste

 

[oldcrow]

One of the most level headed messages I have seen to date, forwarded to me today.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

To this point, I have not entered into any debate over the merits of ALPA vs
USAPA, nor is it my intent to do so now. I will, however, share with you
some thoughts I have on our present representational predicament; thoughts
which aren’t likely to make supporters of either union very happy.

Realize that I am neither an ALPA cheerleader nor a USAPA bandwagoneer. One
Association has led us to where we are today and the other appears to have
no realistic prospect of arriving where their “leadership†promises to take
us in the future.

To tell you the truth, I find no solace in voting for either.

Understand that I do not believe changing associations is necessarily a bad
thing so long as that change would be to the right association, under the
right circumstances, at the right time, with support of the vast majority of
East and West pilots. I have no thoughts on what the “right associationâ€,
under “the right circumstancesâ€, “at the right time†would entail; but
USAPA doesn’t appear to qualify for the job under any of those prerequisites


I’ve made a cognitive effort to reconcile variables which one must attend to
when change is proposed; since initiating change without attempting to
foresee as many long-range implications as can be envisioned, will often
lend a person to venture off onto a fool’s errand. I wish I could tell you
otherwise, but none of the long-range indicators appear to impart a belief
that USAPA has any chance for long-term survival as a bargaining agent.

No doubt you remember the statement, “No bucks; no Buck Rogers!â€

It’s a quote from the movie “The Right Stuffâ€.

That statement highlights the most basic of organizational needs…M O N E Y!!


I have little doubt that money will be the most serious problem among many
for USAPA.

It will, however, likely be a rather short-term problem; but not in the
sense you might be thinking.

I keep asking myself the following questions in relation to money and USAPA
and as of yet have realized no good answers:

1. “If USAPA wins, where is the money going to come from to run the
organization, pay the bills and defend against the lawsuits when 2000+
pilots refuse to pay their dues and assessments?â€

2. “How does USAPA intend to collect monies from the 2000+ pilots who
refuse to pay their dues and assessments?â€

3. “How loud will the laughter emanating from the top floor of the
Tempe Tower be, when USAPA leadership attempts to invoke Section 29 of the
working agreement and ask Al Hemenway to terminate almost one-half of the
pilot group for non-dues & assessment payment?â€

I see little hope of long-term survival of an organization that can neither
pay its bills nor fairly represent all of the “indentured†membership it
will “enslaveâ€, especially those out West. A person has to be obtuse to
believe that this pilot group will ever be “one†under USAPA.

Let’s be clear about one thing; the day will come when we as original East
pilots have no control over what happens within our own union no matter
which union triumphs in the election, and that day will come much sooner
than most people realize. As retirements kick back in, the cross-over point
for a majority power shift to the West should occur within the decade.

If anyone thinks that the West won’t exact a measure of revenge upon the
remaining East pilots when they have the numbers to decide who the
Collective Bargaining Agent will be, as well as the content and context of
the language to be negotiated into any Working Agreement; has naïve notions
of what their future prospects here entail.

When the West has the majority numbers and has had its fill of USAPA (which
will likely be the day it has majority numbers) ALPA National will commence
an organizational drive and provide the majority West pilots with every
available resource to return AAA to “the fold†as they did with Continental
and FedEx. You should expect ALPA to be voted back onto the property at
that time (assuming, of course it is voted off in the first place). That,
my friends, would mean that our current emotion-filled representational
electoral process will end up historically as nothing more than an exercise
in futility.

Hope is a great thing, and the prospect of a new union brings hope to those
who have none based on the egregious nature of the seniority award. It is
quite likely short-sighted false hope which is destined to lead our East
pilot group down the path towards one of the most ill-conceived strategic
blunders in the history of organized labor.

USAPA may win the representational election by a narrow margin, and get to
“play†bargaining agent for a little while…a very little while in historical
terms. Regardless of that possibility; no matter how many times I “click my
heels†and wish I was “back in Kansas†with those of you dreaming of a
better place (seniority wise), I can’t conceive how USAPA will be able to
absolve us from Nic2.

I pride myself on being a positive thinker and try not to let what goes on
around here affect me too much. I’ve stayed pretty well detached from the
representational situation because when I look out into the future I don’t
have any warm-fuzzy feelings concerning what’s about to happen no matter
which way the election turns out.

One thing however is crystal clear to me whether ALPA remains or USAPA
reins:

Nothing good is going to come from any of this nonsense.

Absolutely…nothing.
Scola

 

[nostradamus]

"If anyone thinks that the West won’t exact a measure of revenge upon the
remaining East pilots when they have the numbers to decide who the
Collective Bargaining Agent will be, as well as the content and context of
the language to be negotiated into any Working Agreement; has naïve notions
of what their future prospects here entail."



Your plan b that the west has is the plan b of the east. Human nature.



The difference is, what it has been and what it could be.

 

[EastUS]

Yes, repeatedly being called a scab is so conducive to an interchange of ideas.

Fair's fair. That's a vast improvement in civility over "Alpa-Goat Films". If given sufficient time..we may one day even be "respected" as at least "fellow" carbon-based life forms..not that I've any grave concern over such in some cases.

 

[ableoneable]

It looks like $100+/bbl oil has helped take down the first victim. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin is reporting that ALOHA might soon say aloha.

They just became the first to file for CH11 protection.

Who will be next?

 

[EastUS]

It looks like $100+/bbl oil has helped take down the first victim. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin is reporting that ALOHA might soon say aloha.

They just became the first to file for CH11 protection.

Who will be next?

Not good. The handfull of those folks I've met are good sorts. I hope they don't go under. There's no telling what "fun" is on the industry horizon for any operation...there never really has been though.

Hmm..waitta' second, let me think like an Alpoid = "Aloha?..that's not MEEEee, so who cares? Gee!..maybe that'll open up some good deal for ME". Flash to Herndon = "Are those ours?..if so...Doh!!..more lost dues money, and what are they calling us about?...We have no National anything here, much less any way to help them..the very nerve...".

 

[nostradamus]

It looks like $100+/bbl oil has helped take down the first victim. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin is reporting that ALOHA might soon say aloha.

They just became the first to file for CH11 protection.

Who will be next?

Pan Am, Eastern, Frontier, Midway, TWA, you. alpa did nothing for these carriers and will do nothing for you. American Airlines and Southwest are not associated with alpa. alpa dumbs itself down to the weakest link, while catering to its temporary strongest.

A most recent example is Skyway and SkyWest feeder for Midwest Airlines. SkyWest voted down alpa and was given the feed for Midwest while alpa represented Skyways will cease operations April 1st.

American Eagle is alpa and is being sold by American Airlines.

 

[Leonidas]

second video is up.http://web.mac.com/dvcapture/USAPA/PHX_2.html