ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[nostradamus]

Interesting to note that Gordon Bethune was named Chairman in August 2006. I wonder if he is still calling the shots.

ALOHA AIRGROUP NAMES GORDON BETHUNE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, click here.

 

[700UW]

He is only chairman of the board, not the CEO.

David A. Banmiller, Aloha's president and chief executive officer.

 

[sharktooth]

And some boats have their anchor chains shortened by the competition. It didn't help Aloha to be competing with Mesa's Go! operation which sold tickets well below cost while being subsidized by US, UA, etc through fee for departure contracts.....

You're right - fuel prices weren't the only factor in Aloha's filing but it was probably the final straw that broke the camel's back.

When one walks close to the cliff edge, sometimes a misstep can be fatal.

Also, was there not a "scandal" with MESA having access to Aloha's computer system?

 

[Pi brat]

After the merger, the two ATSB-backed loans (US and HP's separate loans) were first resold to other institutions, removing the ATSB from the picture. The resulting "new" loans were payed off in 2006 with part of the proceeds of a $1.25 billion loan with GECC acting as lead lender. That was in turn paid off in 2007 with part of the proceeds of a $1.6 billion loan package with Citi acting as lead lender.

Each of these refinancing's was announced publicly as they occurred, along with SEC filings for each. They're also discussed in the last annual report. The only way that one could claim that US repaid HP's loan is by using a semantic trick - conveniently omit that it was the "new" combined US that paid off the loans of both "old" US and HP. Even then, it was done with the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" method of borrowing money to repay borrowed money - no different than you or I paying off a mortgage by taking out a new, bigger mortgage.

On March 23, 2007, US Airways Group entered into a new term loan credit facility with Citicorp North America, Inc., as administrative agent, and a syndicate of lenders pursuant to which the Company borrowed an aggregate principal amount of $1.6 billion. US Airways is a guarantor of the Citicorp credit facility.

The proceeds of the Citicorp credit facility were used to repay in full the following indebtedness:

• The amended and restated loan agreement, dated April 7, 2006, entered into by US Airways Group with General Electric Capital Corporation (“GECCâ€￾) and a syndicate of lenders. At the time of the repayment, the total outstanding balance of the loan was $1.25 billion.

Annual Report for 2007

TEMPE, Ariz., Oct. 19 [2005-Jim] /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- US Airways Group, Inc., (LCC - news) today announced that debt totaling $777 million, of which $752 million was backed by the government, has been sold at a slight premium to par to 13 fixed income investors. These loans were granted to the former America West Airlines and US Airways in the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. The total current outstanding balance of these loans is $832 million, with $55 million held by two other existing investors. Terms associated with those loans remain unchanged, with the former America West loan terminating in 2008 and the former US Airways loan terminating in 2010.

US Airways Group Chairman, President and CEO Doug Parker said, "Today's announcement signifies the payoff of both the former America West and US Airways government-backed loans. Not only has the government received full payment of its original loans, with interest and fees totaling approximately $180 million, taxpayers also received an additional $116 million earlier this month when the ATSB sold warrants associated with America West's original loan.

US Airways Press Release

TEMPE, Ariz., April 12 [2006-Jim][/i] /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today announced that it has completed a $1.25 billion debt refinancing transaction. The new loan, which was underwritten by GE Commercial Finance and Morgan Stanley Senior Funding, will bear interest at LIBOR plus 3.50 percent. The margin over LIBOR is reduced as the loan is paid down and can be as low as LIBOR plus 2.50 percent if the loan balance is $600 million or less. At launch in March, the transaction was targeted to raise $1.1 billion. It was subsequently increased by $150 million in April in response to the transaction being well oversubscribed. The term of the loan is five years with the entire principal amount payable in full at maturity.

The refinancing provides significant liquidity over the next five years by reducing principal payments and lowering near-term interest expense. Upon funding of the original $1.1 billion, the Company extinguished four separate debt facilities, including both the former America West and US Airways Air Transportation Stabilization Board loans of $250 million and $551 million, respectively; a General Electric Capital Corporation loan of $111 million; and a loan from an affiliate of Airbus of $161 million.[/i]

US Airways Press Release

TEMPE, Ariz., March 26 [2007-Jim] /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today announced that it has completed a $1.6 billion debt refinancing transaction. The new loan, which was arranged by Citigroup Global Markets Inc. and Morgan Stanley Senior Funding, Inc., as Joint Lead Arrangers, will bear interest at LIBOR plus 2.50 percent.

The refinancing improves liquidity over the next seven years by reducing principal payments and lowering near-term interest expense. Upon funding, the Company extinguished two separate debt facilities: a $1.25 billion senior secured credit facility and a $325 million unsecured debt facility. The additional $25 million will be used for general corporate purposes.

US Airways Press Release

Jim

I agree Jim, it's semantics, but tell me where I'm wrong here. AWA entered into a merger with US Airways. They paid no cash to investors, a very large amount of money was raised on condition of the merger, the ATSB loans were paid off, and the US cash tied up by ATSB restrictions was freed. So, without investing any money AWA, stepped in and got the benefits and cash.

 

[ableoneable]

I agree Jim, it's semantics, but tell me where I'm wrong here. AWA entered into a merger with US Airways. They paid no cash to investors, a very large amount of money was raised on condition of the merger, the ATSB loans were paid off, and the US cash tied up by ATSB restrictions was freed. So, without investing any money AWA, stepped in and got the benefits and cash.

This has been covered to death.

Start at this post. http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=578166

 

[EastUS]

Well all I have to say is where were you? Why weren't you there right along side us helping to ensure we got the same rates as you? For all the "this is how a real union works" rhetoric your real life example falls well short of your bombast.

Your question's very much on point, but improperly targeted. The "where were you?" is a proper question for the devout Alpoids to address. I do not see any suggestion ever made by the poster you're responding to that Alpa's actions, or lack thereof, represented any semblance of "how a real union works". Perhaps your own Alpa folks might better explain the lack of support among the various splintered little factions, otherwise fantasized about as being "United Alpa Pilots" and, of course "Brothers and Sisters". Any functional union arises from cohesive goals within a given trade for mutual betterment. What we actually have, thanks to there being no truly national charter, is a bunch of warring little airline tribes instead. This is among the biggest reasons why the "National" in Alpa "NationaL" is a total joke. I won't even start on seniority issues.....

 

[BoeingBoy]

I agree Jim, it's semantics, but tell me where I'm wrong here. AWA entered into a merger with US Airways. They paid no cash to investors, a very large amount of money was raised on condition of the merger, the ATSB loans were paid off, and the US cash tied up by ATSB restrictions was freed. So, without investing any money AWA, stepped in and got the benefits and cash.

Let's take that and change a word or two.....

US entered into a merger with AWA. They paid no cash to investors, a very large amount of money was raised on condition of the merger, the ATSB loans were paid off, and the US cash tied up by ATSB restrictions was freed. So, without investing any money, US stepped in and got the benefits and cash.

Both versions are equally true since both pre-merger companies benefited from the merger - cash was raised and the ATSB-backed loans were refinanced. Which version one prefers depends on the slant one wants to give - did US help HP out of a sticky situation or vice versa. Of course, what both omit is that the AWA investors came out no worse than whole (unless they still have the LCC stock they received) while the "old" US investors got shafted.

What is absolutely not true is that "old" US paid off any ATSB loan, much less HP's.

Jim

 

[b737fo]

The USAPA knew ahead of time that the reception would be borderline mob action, they showed up anyways. I watched the video, which has a link on this message thread. The actions of the USAPA reps was professional and patient. The mob action of the america west pilots prove that they are not quite the cream of the pilot gene pool.

See we have something in common Nos. Apparently we hail from the same gene pool considering the bird that was delivered to me last month from a "friendly" A321 crew. Emotions are high and I see unprofessional behavior on both sides of the Mississippi. It is sad considering where we as a group have taken this profession over the last 75 years. Cheers and blue skies my friend.

 

[PayParity]

“There may be a lot of things wrong with the Air Line Pilots Association,â€￾ Obermeyer said, noting that despite his two decades of service with US Airways, he has only 150 pilots below him on the proposed seniority list. “But I’m not willing to throw all the good things away for a Hail Mary pass, a pipe dream.

“If USAPA officials could show me the magic bullet that would fix things, I would switch sides immediately. But I don’t see a successful plan from them,â€￾ Obermeyer said.

 

[EastUS]

See we have something in common Nos. Apparently we hail from the same gene pool considering the bird that was delivered to me last month from a "friendly" A321 crew. Emotions are high and I see unprofessional behavior on both sides of the Mississippi. It is sad considering where we as a group have taken this profession over the last 75 years. Cheers and blue skies my friend.

I'll take a wild guess = you were just walking along, and someone supposedly flipped you off? OK. Well..I can't even begin to imagine that anyone with a giant Koolaide pitcher for a signature, in lieu of reasoned presentations, would ever, ever lie under any circumstances. "Emotions are high"... indeed it seems...so's the depth of the AWA-Alpa BS hereabouts. If you've no further "justification" to offer for your fellow west "Brothers and Sisters" continued, and blatantly adolescent behaviour than that? = "Cheers and blue skies my friend."

"It is sad considering where we as a group have taken this profession over the last 75 years." It is indeed, although I've little use for the inclusive "we" in this case. When I came into this profession: I considered it a huge honor, and immense good fortune to be part of the sky professionally...and it most certainly NEVER occurred to me to think myself so "special" so as to be more worthy than those with far more flight time....your sort clearly differs en extremis. I'm absolutely certain that it would have mightilly impressed my instructors had I offered: "Major/Sirs?...I'm from a very special place..and the arbitrator says that that alone entitles me to kick your arse..so don't bother trying to teach me what you've learned in two or more combat tours..I'm "special". 😉 The same goes for airline ops = I've never had such a substantive ego as to presume upon ANY with far larger baskets of experience to dig into...BUT..you AWA "pilots" are, evidently...very, very, very "special" indeed..just ask you...OK

Let's VOTE!!!

 

[EastUS]

“There may be a lot of things wrong with the Air Line Pilots Association,â€￾ Obermeyer said, noting that despite his two decades of service with US Airways, he has only 150 pilots below him on the proposed seniority list. “But I’m not willing to throw all the good things away for a Hail Mary pass, a pipe dream.

“If USAPA officials could show me the magic bullet that would fix things, I would switch sides immediately. But I don’t see a successful plan from them,â€￾ Obermeyer said.

That individual already is working his hopefully, "successful plan" = To remain an Alpa drone on FPL, with eventual hopes of Holy Herndon, and never have to fret over any line pilots' issues personally.

 

[dariencc]

“There may be a lot of things wrong with the Air Line Pilots Association,” Obermeyer said, noting that despite his two decades of service with US Airways, he has only 150 pilots below him on the proposed seniority list. “But I’m not willing to throw all the good things away for a Hail Mary pass, a pipe dream.

“If USAPA officials could show me the magic bullet that would fix things, I would switch sides immediately. But I don’t see a successful plan from them,” Obermeyer said.

The Alpoid desperation level has come to this. Posting cut-and-pastes from Richard Obermeyer in the forlorn hope that there is some lone eccentric waiting for these words of wisdom before deciding.

Good luck with that strategy, Payparity. Just one small glitch. Have you ever met Richard?

 

[Pi brat]

Let's take that and change a word or two.....

US entered into a merger with AWA. They paid no cash to investors, a very large amount of money was raised on condition of the merger, the ATSB loans were paid off, and the US cash tied up by ATSB restrictions was freed. So, without investing any money, US stepped in and got the benefits and cash.

Both versions are equally true since both pre-merger companies benefited from the merger - cash was raised and the ATSB-backed loans were refinanced. Which version one prefers depends on the slant one wants to give - did US help HP out of a sticky situation or vice versa. Of course, what both omit is that the AWA investors came out no worse than whole (unless they still have the LCC stock they received) while the "old" US investors got shafted.

What is absolutely not true is that "old" US paid off any ATSB loan, much less HP's.

Jim

Of course they didn't pay off the loans, they couldn't. My point is that both sides benefitted from the merger, about the purest merger I have ever seen. The rest of the ones I have been involved with were buyouts. I'm sick to death of hearing west folks say"we" saved you. The financing saved US, and helped AWA, at least for a while.

 

[EastUS]

Of course they didn't pay off the loans, they couldn't. My point is that both sides benefitted from the merger, about the purest merger I have ever seen. The rest of the ones I have been involved with were buyouts. I'm sick to death of hearing west folks say"we" saved you. The financing saved US, and helped AWA, at least for a while.

Regardless of any/all of the actual facts involved with the financing; It's utterly absurd for ANY indivdual employee to beat their chest as if they, personally..had the slightest bit of input into the decisions/transactions...as if they're "owed" anything from such.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm sick to death of hearing west folks say"we" saved you. The financing saved US, and helped AWA, at least for a while.

Agreed 100% - any such "we saved you" talk is pure speculation at best. But unfortunately some still present some contrived "fact" to "prove" a point. I suspect both sides have plenty who will throw out whatever nonsense may fit their view.

Jim