ALPA/USAPA Thread for the Week with a Poll 3/16-22

[sharktooth]

Seeham asked for a police escort to the bathroom, that answer your question?

Is that new?

 

[CactusFlyr]

I just answered the question with what I heard at the ALPA roadshow. But as for the TA and Nic. What contract does the Nic seniority list live in? If you answered neither you are correct. Nic was negotiated under the TA. Therefore if the TA goes away as ALPA says it will, where does Nic go? Into both contracts? No hardly. Nic was negotiated under ALPA auspices. Not USAPA's.

You guys give WAY to much power, credence, whatever- to USAPA and their bylaws. You just think it is going to be whatever they say?? I think not. But you are sure going to try, I see.

 

[nostradamus]

It will not be long until US Airways participates in the latest trend in the airline business of parking airplanes. How this is handled depends on who you vote in as your representation.

 

[319hitter]

Heard from a friend on the west about the meeting yesterday. If they can’t handle questions from people who they say they want to represent how are they going to handle the Company? But, they don’t want to represent them and the west knows it and will never accept or pay dues to USAPA. It will be an absurd hopelessly divided organization.

One other thing, I read with disbelief USAPA’s claim that once it unites the pilots it will proceed with its “professional negotiatorâ€￾ to give us a great agreement in no time at all. At yesterday’s meeting they finally identified the “professional negotiatorâ€￾ as Scott Peterson. They claimed he had represented the Continental pilots. I spoke to a buddy of mine at CAL and it turns out that Peterson is a former ALPA Contract Administrator for the CAL pilots (two years). He never negotiated a pilot CBA and was not used in bargaining.

 

[nostradamus]

But, they don’t want to represent them and the west knows it and will never accept or pay dues to USAPA. It will be an absurd hopelessly divided organization.

It is now and will continue to be regardless of the outcome of this vote. This is always the result when you try to fool around with mother nature.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think he was a negotiator for the IAM during NW's BK contract negotiations, or at least a "Scott Peterson" was.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Seeham asked for a police escort to the bathroom, that answer your question?

Good point Sire. Frankly, I've never expected great heroics from any lawyers at all but: The East IS truly a gutless group. Heck..very respectfully dispensing with our now-retired guys from earlier conflicts; I can only recall roughly several hundred of us having been called up for Desert Storm alone, and sizeable numbers for the more recent sandbox games, but; not one of us has ever even been a spartan war king about to lead a great "Army" into "All out Warfare" ..Hmmm..I don't even know of any "Wolverines" out east for that matter. We do have a few ferrets, but that may not count. Your side clearly reigns triumphant by any measurements of valor, commitment, and certainly overall ferocity. The point's fully conceeded by me.

When the west MEC chairman came to CLT..it was a proven display of "balls" by west postings. USAPA people were clearly too cowardly to venture into the ferocious PHX, and much was posted demeaning that. When some came? = Same old west coloration and overall BS, different day....same drill.

Are we done now?

Let's Vote!!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

[quote name='EastUS' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:58 AM' post='584157'

Are we done now?

Let's Vote!!!
[/quote]

Now that the chief $5,000 bloviater has spoken, yes we are done now. Close it up.

 

[nycbusdriver]

[quote name='lynyrdskynyrd' post='584158' date='Mar 20 2008, 12:07 PM'][quote name='EastUS' date='Mar 20 2008, 10:58 AM' post='584157'

Are we done now?

Let's Vote!!!


Now that the chief $5,000 bloviater has spoken, yes we are done now. Close it up.[/quote]


Ho hum. The worsties demanded a USAPA road show in PHX. They got it and acted like the clueless morons we all expected. We are done.

Let's vote. (Those of us that can vote, BBB.)

 

[EastUS]

Now that the chief $5,000 bloviater has spoken, yes we are done now. Close it up.

It's only bloviation when there exist none out west interested in wagering...other than with arbitrators and "guidelines"

Let's VOTE!!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Yep, lets vote. I know none of you guys are stupid, but I do wonder how many are just blinded enough by emotion to vote for anyone but alpa. I say vote for anyone but alpa because the way I see it, usapa doesn't offer anything resembling a real plan. Sure they dream up objectives and ideas of what they want, but that is a far cry from a solid plan with a real chance of success.

Whatever, we'll find out.

 

[EastUS]

Yep, lets vote. I know none of you guys are stupid, but I do wonder how many are just blinded enough by emotion to vote for anyone but alpa. I say vote for anyone but alpa because the way I see it, usapa doesn't offer anything resembling a real plan. Sure they dream up objectives and ideas of what they want, but that is a far cry from a solid plan with a real chance of success.

Whatever, we'll find out.

"I know none of you guys are stupid" corresponds rather poorly with any suggestion to "vote for alpa". What's clearly missed out west is that the intended dismissal of alpa's not a direct product of any emotional response, but rather a reasoned response to decades of alpa's enlightened "representation". No disrespect on this point intended but; You guys/gals just haven't been around long enough to see alpa in action (or lack thereof) enough to even possibly have any similar perspective. I feel that you're dismissing what you don't understand, and trying to frame our actions into something that "makes sense" to you. The huge gulf in years on the line between east-west provides no common template from which to draw any consensual picture of alpa. How do you possibly explain people out here who are in NO way directly affected by Nic..but want alpa...GONE!! ???? I can't speak for others, but; my earnest belief is that if I can help in the slightest way to start the ball rolling on alpa's demise...it'll be the best thing I can personally do for pilots as a whole....period. If not elsewhere..at least for all of us here.

 

[Tiger 1050]

nostradamus: "It is now and will continue to be regardless of the outcome of this vote. This is always the result when you try to fool around with mother nature."

Holy Crap!!! I agree with you!


nycbusdriver: "They got it and acted like the clueless morons we all expected."

I find that we are not really that different... I do recall a particular pilot group that spun up it's CIRP because the award was so "egregious." I recall a group of pilots that openly insulted their counterparts in the media by referring to the west as "rookies" and "inexperienced." I also recall threats of burning down the house... So you see we are not really that far apart. We can be morons together!!! I will admit that the use of the term "scab" is unfortunate and does not apply in this case. It seems that there are some who need to understand how and when the term is used...


So I guess I have an open question: Considering USAPA's moto "Seniority Matters", just whose seniority are they referring to? In one of their slides at the presentation the term "lifetime fence" was used. This, I understand as I was not there, was the spark that set off the fire. Rightfully so from my view as we are forced at this point to consider expectations. The east no matter what you guys think was furloughing and returning aircraft at the time of the merger. The west, while not taking deliveries of widebody a/c, was growing and hiring pilots. So for one to state that you can keep your west job/seat according to your expectations prior to the merger means the east should expect nothing less. Well what do we do about the 190's? The 3 757's? What about the additional 330's? Why do you capture over 400 upgrades while we sit stagnate? How is this reflective of our respective "expectations?" One must agree that there was no guarantee that any of these a/c would have shown up prior to the marriage. So here is your chance to demonstrate "real union" behavior and share ALL equally with regards to new a/c... Why do I get the feeling you folks won't agree...

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

"I know none of you guys are stupid" corresponds rather poorly with any suggestion to "vote for alpa". What's clearly missed out west is that the intended dismissal of alpa's not a direct product of any emotional response, but rather a reasoned response to decades of alpa's enlightened "representation". No disrespect on this point intended but; You guys/gals just haven't been around long enough to see alpa in action (or lack thereof) enough to even possibly have any similar perspective. I feel that you're dismissing what you don't understand, and trying to frame our actions into something that "makes sense" to you. The huge gulf in years on the line between east-west provides no common template from which to draw any consensual picture of alpa. How do you possibly explain people out here who are in NO way directly affected by Nic..but want alpa...GONE!! ????

Some of our Continental strikers are retired now, but we have some sons of them here now. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting the son or daughter on a veteran alpa pilot. We have active pilots who struck eastern. I grew up in a United household and worked for an alpa represented regional before awa, so I'm aware of alot of alpa's virtues and faults. In short, we aren't all just off the turnip truck.

In regard to your final question, many of those not directly affected by nic are not in a place to feel the ramifications of usapa impotence and what it may bring. Maybe they are out soon and/or are senior enough by any measure that those ramifications won't effect them. If thats the case, then it would be easy to "go out on a limb" and let your little head lead you.

For the rest, the gamble gets a little more dicey. No offense, but Bradford would give me no confidence whatsoever. Theur a little more, but not much. Theur does seem like an ok guy overall though. Of course being on the west, I'm in no postition to state that with any authority, you guys know them, I don't. I have to say, though, my one impression of Bradford is.....snake.

 

[EastUS]

One must agree that there was no guarantee that any of these a/c would have shown up prior to the marriage. So here is your chance to demonstrate "real union" behavior and share ALL equally with regards to new a/c... Why do I get the feeling you folks won't agree...

For what little it's worth (probably 2 cents or so); I personally, wouldn't have a problem with a divison of additional flying. I made suggestions about fences and additional flying long ago..and was immediately drowned out by all the "Booshaka's"..."Final and Binding!!"..."It's OVER!!!".."Ho Ho Ho..ST Nic..!!" etc/ad nauseum. Of course: We now "fearfully" must also face the entire "Army" of Leonidas and prepare for "All out Warfare" at the behest of some MEC "War Chief" with all of ten years at AWA. Time tends to color one's perspectives, as I noted in my above post.....enough said by me on that.

Regardless of the emotional flavoring of events: I'd be the grossest of hypocrites to have suggested post-Nic negotiations, and now be conveniently deaf to thoughts from the west merely because of USAPA's likely election.

What's your current suggestion sir?