USAPA/ALPA thread of the week 5/31-6/6

[oldiebutgoody]

Richard,

You said...

"The thread title stays as it is for now.
End of discussion.
Keep it on topic.
For your future reference, this kind of nonsense is what gets threads closed.....do we want to go there again?"

This is my first post, so It's not like I've taken any side in these pilot labor discussions, but if this thread is supposed to be about the current state of pilot labor issues, "ALPA" has absolutely nothing to do with it. This thread may as well be called USAPA/ALPA/TEAMSTERS/NEA, etc.

The pilot union is USAPA. No others exist on this property.

Folks, there's a clear bias here on the part of some of the moderators. I've voiced this to the group of moderators, and I urge you to do the same. Just click the "report" button. I believe that goes to all of them.

 

[PA18]

Pretty much the case, imho. Side issue = Is the adolescent, BS... jumpseat crap still ongoing? Other than providing yet more pathetic behavioral displays, suitable only for generating the fullest contempt; such doesn't effect me directly, and I'll always offer properly professional courtesy to any other pilots on "my" plane, but..I'm curious as to whether anyone out there, that was doing such teenaged-level BS, has actually "gwown up" any of late.

Check this out, from the ALPA website:


Change remained the main theme of the Executive Board’s 102nd regular meeting, held today in Tyson’s Corner, Va.

Additionally, the executive board directed the ALPA National Jumpseat Committee to review the current policy that would give ALPA pilots priority to obtain access to cockpit jumpseats. The Committee is expected to report to the September 2008 Executive Board with any improvements of suggestions. Stay tuned.

On the surface, this smacks of a thinly veiled retaliation against the US Airways pilots. Does ALPA National really want to get involved in a national jumpseat war? I would expect that the first time a US pilot is denied jumpseat because of some "ALPA First" policy, the US (or SW, or JB, or UPS) jumpseat policy will become "ALPA Last".

The East Coast Shuttle is a veritable crew bus for off-line pilots, ALPA and non-ALPA. So if this policy is enforced, the JetBlue pilot who shows up at the US Shuttle gate in DCA at departure time gets the jumpseat instead of the United pilot who has been waiting patiently and politely for two hours. Is that what they want?

Or how about the US West pilot who relies on an ALPA RJ to get to and from PHX from a smaller out-station? So now a United Express pilot has priority over that US pilot on a US Express flight, because the former happens to be an ALPA member. (Remember, most of the regional airlines are ALPA.)

Once again, it would appear that petty politics at the top will be played, with no thought of how it might affect the line schmucks who actually carry the mail and pay the freight.

Then again, what does the EC care? They never fly, so they never commute. And when they have their bi-monthly soirées at five-star resorts (which the US pilots are no longer paying for), I'm sure they travel positive space first class.

On the dime of the line pilot whose commute to work they are trying to make even more difficult.

 

[luvthe9]

The thread title stays as it is for now.

End of discussion.

Keep it on topic.

For your future reference, this kind of nonsense is what gets threads closed.....do we want to go there again?

You nit pick on every topic in here yet you won't correct it to the proper title or I guess you like to fuel the fire. I don't get it.

 

[Bear96]

I agree. It might be best to just use a generic "Pilot union thread of the week," at least until the dust begins to settle a bit. ALPA is likely gone for at least two years so it makes no sense to put it in the thread title.

Oh dear. I find myself agreeing with both nycbusdriver and EastUS (which can't be good). I had the same thought about the thread title since LCC/ALPA got the boot.

There really shouldn't be an "ALPA" thread anymore in any way, but either a "USAPA Thread" or a "Pilot Labor Thread" since ALPA is no longer the legal representative of LCC pilots. This is not a criticism of the moderators, who often have to make difficult decisions which will inevitably piss some people off. But IMO at this point it really doesn't make sense to associate ALPA with the LCC pilots.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

This is not a debate. While ALPA is no longer on the property, the labor disputes which exist at the company today still involve ALPA to a degree, therefore the title stands. This is illustrated by the post above on ALPA jumpseat policy and how it might affect USAPA members.

We will see about the next thread on the next cycle.

That said, public challenging or criticism of moderators is specifically prohibited and is grounds for 14 day suspension.

The fact that you're arguing about the title of the thread says alot as well.....

If you have something to say to a moderator use the PM function.

Otherwise grow up and deal with the issues at hand.

The issue of the title of the thread is CLOSED.

 

[exB717Flyer]

It's my belief that the west "Righteous Position" on never, ever paying anything is a bunch of complete BS...

The near future will be an interesting time for USAPA. At some point they'll be in a formal negotiation with Management demanding the seniority list (the Nicolau list, that is) be reworked to favor the East. One of the possible outcomes is that the price will be so high USAPA will simply will be forced to give it up and deal with things like pay and benefits. At that point USAPA can be considered to have ceased working against the West and we'll have no reason not to join and work together for the best possible joint contract. Wouldn't that be a happy scenario?

Now, consider the other possible outcomes at the negotiations.
...

 

[sharktooth]

The near future will be an interesting time for USAPA. At some point they'll be in a formal negotiation with Management demanding the seniority list (the Nicolau list, that is) be reworked to favor the East.

Reworked? Are you kidding?

Like Saddam's Iraqi government, the "nic" is gone. Like as if it never occurred. Get used to it.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The near future will be an interesting time for USAPA. At some point they'll be in a formal negotiation with Management demanding the seniority list (the Nicolau list, that is) be reworked to favor the East. One of the possible outcomes is that the price will be so high USAPA will simply will be forced to give it up and deal with things like pay and benefits. At that point USAPA can be considered to have ceased working against the West and we'll have no reason not to join and work together for the best possible joint contract. Wouldn't that be a happy scenario?

Now, consider the other possible outcomes at the negotiations.
...

Section 22 - Seniority is easy. Just tell Doug no changes to the existing contract. In fact, tell him he can pick east Section 22, or west Section 22. His choice. Then invite him for a beer.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Section 22 - Seniority is easy. Just tell Doug no changes to the existing contract. In fact, tell him he can pick east Section 22, or west Section 22. His choice. Then invite him for a beer.

That's what you guys should do anyway & all this would be over

 

[checksix]

There really shouldn't be an "ALPA" thread anymore in any way, but either a "USAPA Thread" or a "Pilot Labor Thread" since ALPA is no longer the legal representative of LCC pilots. This is not a criticism of the moderators, who often have to make difficult decisions which will inevitably piss some people off. But IMO at this point it really doesn't make sense to associate ALPA with the LCC pilots.

Ditto

 

[checksix]

The near future will be an interesting time for USAPA. At some point they'll be in a formal negotiation with Management demanding the seniority list (the Nicolau list, that is) be reworked to favor the East. One of the possible outcomes is that the price will be so high USAPA will simply will be forced to give it up and deal with things like pay and benefits.

As other's have stated, there is nothing to negotiate in Section 22, it remains as written. The 'nic award was union generated and never accepted by the pilots. The next step will be to provide management the union generated seniority list that will be accepted by the pilots.

If you watched the PHX crew news video with Kirby you will see that management is NOT going to be getting involved with any seniority issues, they will abide by the law.

This issue is over - the new award is DOH, as it should be.

 

[Phoenix]

That's entirely insensitive sir!!...Sigh...I do sometimes just miss the warm, fuzzy and well-loved feelings I got from all those months of just the FUD avalanche alone. Sniffle..I miss Alpa...nowadays..everyone's supposed to actually think.

"Insensitive?"

What? Huh? :huh: I said it was a wonderful story.

 

[eckoa6]

This issue is over - the new award is DOH, as it should be.

Ok I have yet to comment on this issue but some of these comments are just laughable. As a disclaimer I'm not a pilot nor a current employee of US. If it was just as simple as USAPA sending over a DOH list, why wasn't it done weeks ago. Don't you think there is something you are missing here? If USAPA legal felt they could in fact do this it would have been done already, and contract negotiations would be under way. This is not the case and from the CLT crew news DP specifically stated "We can't just ignore the Nic award". Now to make my self clear, I don't feel Nic is fair and equitable to the east, but DOH clearly isn't fair and equitable to the west. Both sides need to grow up and get back to the table. The west needs to stop with the golden ticket mantra and the east needs to stop the DOH down your throat talk.

 

[fr8tmastr]

Ok I have yet to comment on this issue but some of these comments are just laughable. As a disclaimer I'm not a pilot nor a current employee of US. If it was just as simple as USAPA sending over a DOH list, why wasn't it done weeks ago. Don't you think there is something you are missing here? If USAPA legal felt they could in fact do this it would have been done already, and contract negotiations would be under way. This is not the case and from the CLT crew news DP specifically stated "We can't just ignore the Nic award". Now to make my self clear, I don't feel Nic is fair and equitable to the east, but DOH clearly isn't fair and equitable to the west. Both sides need to grow up and get back to the table. The west needs to stop with the golden ticket mantra and the east needs to stop the DOH down your throat talk.

I think you answered your own question. DOH is not fair to the West. That is why fences and protections need to be worked out, so that it becomes fair. Not to mention in the TA there is a no bump no flush clause, that will also protect in the end.

 

[eckoa6]

I think you answered your own question. DOH is not fair to the West. That is why fences and protections need to be worked out, so that it becomes fair. Not to mention in the TA there is a no bump no flush clause, that will also protect in the end.

This is my point, you can't reasonably say DOH with some modifications, because that opens up for the west to make a case for Nic plus some modification. You guys need to find something that isnt DOH or Nic.