US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/24-6/30 Stay On Topic

[ussnark]

Ironically it may be west pilots who vote no in large numbers because the east will likely fund pay increases by watering down west work rules and benefits.

Actually, LOA 84 will be just fine for a temporary pay enhancement. Negotiable items would include work rules and benefits, some the west is "ahead of", others, not so much. The issue is, what is the west going to give up to get LOA 84 pay?

 

[EastUS]

Even if they were negotiating in earnest I don't think they would be able to deliver a favorable TA.

The potential no vote on the east side depends upon how long the east pilots are willing to forgo pay increases and scheduling enhancements to prolong a battle already irrevocably lost.

Huh?...Don't those statements represent mutually exclusive concepts? Ummm...."I don't think they would be able to deliver a favorable TA.", but, of course; there's to be some awesome and obtainable contract offer that'll only be thwarted by the east, via; "The potential no vote on the east side depends upon how long the east pilots are willing to forgo pay increases and scheduling enhancements..."

 

[cubfan]

Oh I would say 2 million worth of dues payable to a union liable for failure of DFR for starters.

Then I would add a stack of legal bills, and top it off with Punitive damages if the BPR so much as hints of a stalling tactic.

Nic, In all due respect, 2 mil. maybe, if so I'm not sure what the total dollars owed would be since Suzies loop hole was changed. If the west has to become whole from that point, that may exceed 2 mil. Legal bills, most likely. Stall tatic, don't think they can do that, but what constitutes a stall? Not getting an industry leading or at least close to industry parity and the pilots saying NO GOOD how ever long that takes, doesn't mean a stall. Since NIC arrived I have always felt this would be the out come. Since I feel I most likely will be on RSV for the next forseeable future, to me its more about quality of life. I made a post earlier, about what it would take for me, if I don't get close to that, my one vote says NO. That won't be a stall by me, just reality. Hope your day goes well.

 

[Hawkhunter]

well I'm not a pilot /lawyer/labor expert somebody needs to explain to me how it is right that an 86 hire is junior to a 99 hire??

That is why we are where we are. Nobody but the West guys and a few of the East guys think it is fair. The few East guys like JS and DE are already senior and just want to be based in PHX. Thank you for seeing it for what it is.

 

[Objector]

Traderjake the truth is that the original US Airways is the future of this company and not the west. HP brought almost nothing to this merger and believe it or not the worst management in the industry.

What was Doug thinking when he dragged the carcuss of a rotting so-called legacy airline to Tempe? You get what you paid for.

 

[nic4us]

Nic, In all due respect, 2 mil. maybe, if so I'm not sure what the total dollars owed would be since Suzies loop hole was changed. If the west has to become whole from that point, that may exceed 2 mil. Legal bills, most likely. Stall tatic, don't think they can do that, but what constitutes a stall?

The 2 mil is a rough guestimate on my part of dues from USAPAs election win til the conclusion of the Addington trial, or the point from which USAPA is forced to represent, if they continue opposition it should add up until appeal is rejected, or the point where they withdraw the DOH list in negotiations.

You can vote however you see fit, and I will defend that notion til the end, as long as your vote is cast on a TA that represents all pilots and is not being manipulated as an ends to facilitate discrimination toward the West.

 

[cubfan]

The 2 mil is a rough guestimate on my part of dues from USAPAs election win til the conclusion of the Addington trial, or the point from which USAPA is forced to represent, if they continue opposition it should add up until appeal is rejected, or the point where they withdraw the DOH list in negotiations.

You can vote however you see fit, and I will defend that notion til the end, as long as your vote is cast on a TA that represents all pilots and is not being manipulated as an ends to facilitate discrimination toward the West.

NIC, I thought you ment the damages awared would be around 2 mil, what ever the dollar amount is, I think they could be payed via back dues if the west has to pay up since change in cbl's.( absolve you of your back dues as payment). As far as my vote, all pilots have a base or floor for what is acceptable to them. Mine, quality of life issues, I feel the NIC will be sec 22 though, in the end.

 

[luvthe9]

What was Doug thinking when he dragged the carcuss of a rotting so-called legacy airline to Tempe? You get what you paid for.

I think he was trying to save A-West from "Project Zanzibar"

 

[cleardirect]

So after 14 month of the usapa experiment.

After giving up over $60,000.00. Costing this pilots group well over $2 million in legal cost. This is where we are.

DOH=DOA
USAPA= Nicolau
USAPA= Joint contract only. NO section 6.

So how is that working for you? Looks to me like we are worse off now than we were two years ago.

 

[luvthe9]

So after 14 month of the usapa experiment.

After giving up over $60,000.00. Costing this pilots group well over $2 million in legal cost. This is where we are.

DOH=DOA
USAPA= Nicolau
USAPA= Joint contract only. NO section 6.

So how is that working for you? Looks to me like we are worse off now than we were two years ago.

It's working great there is no "Nic" on the property, the east should get a little raise next year, I'm happy with it so far.

 

[hp_fa]

It's working great there is no "Nic" on the property, the east should get a little raise next year, I'm happy with it so far.

However Nic will, at some point, be on the property. Or do you believe that to be incorrect?

 

[prechilill]

I think he was trying to save A-West from "Project Zanzibar"

Let's see, if I remember correctly this "Project Zanzibar" was a supposed chapter 11 plan for AWA, even though nobody ever saw any documentation on it. Assuming Zanzibar did in fact exist, is a bankruptcy any different than liquidating a company? What do you think? Do you remember UAL, NWA and DAL all filed chapter 11 (AAA was already in its second bankruptcy and heading for liquidation) about this time? So, you are referencing a supposed plan which was formulated at a time when half of the major airlines were bankrupt and using it to imply AWA, which was not in bankruptcy, was financially unstable, or at least less so than AAA which was staring at imminent liquidation. Hmmm. Do you really think bringing up Zanzibar really helps your argument any? I don't think so either. Cheers!

 

[cubfan]

So after 14 month of the usapa experiment.

After giving up over $60,000.00. Costing this pilots group well over $2 million in legal cost. This is where we are.

DOH=DOA
USAPA= Nicolau
USAPA= Joint contract only. NO section 6.

So how is that working for you? Looks to me like we are worse off now than we were two years ago.

Clear, What are you basing 60,000.00 on, parity +3%, if you are for me it would have been around 2800.00 for the 14 mo. they need to step up larger than that. The 2 mil in legal fees, payed by your absolution of past dues. No loss on my end.

 

[Hawkhunter]

So after 14 month of the usapa experiment.

After giving up over $60,000.00. Costing this pilots group well over $2 million in legal cost. This is where we are.

DOH=DOA
USAPA= Nicolau
USAPA= Joint contract only. NO section 6.

So how is that working for you? Looks to me like we are worse off now than we were two years ago.

Working out great so far. It is you that is worse off though, not getting that land grab you have been salivating for the last two years. You guys must be really ticked off. I got flipped off AGAIN by one of your "Integrity matters" guys.

 

[luvthe9]

However Nic will, at some point, be on the property. Or do you believe that to be incorrect?

I think the Nic won't be here for a long time but thats me. But then again with your management running this place into the ground we all might not be around.