US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/24-6/30 Stay On Topic

[prechilill]

Working out great so far. It is you that is worse off though, not getting that land grab you have been salivating for the last two years. You guys must be really ticked off. I got flipped off AGAIN by one of your "Integrity matters" guys.

Well, the nice thing about having age 60 change is it delayed the massive retirements coming on your side. In another year or so we should have everything worked out contract- wise, so when the attrition really kicks in out east the west pilots will have access to all of those captain slots opening up.

Now, if you really believe what you just read you need to look at life without wearing angry-eyes. Many fear-mongers out east are creating boogey-men at every turn and inventing victories for USAPa out of thin air. Suit yourself, but if you really believe you are winning by holding out on a joint contract then I will offer this to you: In the not-so-distant future, we will be merged. Nobody has retired en masse from your side yet so all of those supposed attrtion opportunities you crow about will be there for all of us out west thanks to age 65. Now, do you want to continue gloating about your deliberate stall tactics?

 

[cubfan]

Working out great so far. It is you that is worse off though, not getting that land grab you have been salivating for the last two years. You guys must be really ticked off. I got flipped off AGAIN by one of your "Integrity matters" guys.

Hawk, I really don't think he flipped you off, he was probably saying he can't wait till were all ONE, working for ONE contract, that was the universal sign for all together.

 

[EastUS]

It's working great there is no "Nic" on the property, the east should get a little raise next year, I'm happy with it so far.

Works for me as well

 

[hp_fa]

But then again with your management running this place into the ground we all might not be around.

Not my management. I left in 2005.

 

[A320 Driver]

Well, the nice thing about having age 60 change is it delayed the massive retirements coming on your side. In another year or so we should have everything worked out contract- wise, so when the attrition really kicks in out east the west pilots will have access to all of those captain slots opening up.

Now, if you really believe what you just read you need to look at life without wearing angry-eyes. Many fear-mongers out east are creating boogey-men at every turn and inventing victories for USAPa out of thin air. Suit yourself, but if you really believe you are winning by holding out on a joint contract then I will offer this to you: In the not-so-distant future, we will be merged. Nobody has retired en masse from your side yet so all of those supposed attrtion opportunities you crow about will be there for all of us out west thanks to age 65. Now, do you want to continue gloating about your deliberate stall tactics?

Hey moderators! How much FLAME BAIT is gonna get passed around today...on BOTH sides.

This is not a discussion; this is kids in a sandbox!


Driver <_<

 

[EastUS]

However Nic will, at some point, be on the property. Or do you believe that to be incorrect?

"at some point" the earth itself will be devoid of life. That won't likely take more than another 4.4 to 4.6 or so billion years. What's your timetable for Nic?

 

[luvthe9]

Not my management. I left in 2005.

I gald for you, really. Whwn I leave I promise I won't waste my precious time on this or any other board.

 

[EastUS]

...so when the attrition really kicks in out east the west pilots will have access to all of those captain slots opening up.

Nobody has retired en masse from your side yet so all of those supposed attrtion opportunities you crow about will be there for all of us out west thanks to age 65. Now, do you want to continue gloating about your deliberate stall tactics?

Wow! Is that posting a true keeper or what? No finer, nor more concise summation of west greed and frustration has ever been written. :blink:

It's not presented without presumably intended humor though =The award for most hilarious statement ever must properly go to "In another year or so we should have everything worked out contract- wise,..."

Sigh...I must almost wax nostalgic for the good old days, when the west was still making laughably feeble attempts to color the nic abomination as being "fair and equitable". Oh well...at least some slight degree of actual honesty is finally surfacing through all that "integrity" floating around at the surface

 

[prechilill]

Hey moderators! How much FLAME BAIT is gonna get passed around today...on BOTH sides.

This is not a discussion; this is kids in a sandbox!


Driver <_<

Yes, I must agree you guys are good and luring people into these endless spirals of nothingness, debating fictitious infractions casued by Nicolau and the west pilots. If you choose to label a post as flame bait, so be it, but you have partisan beliefs to begin with so your opinions are tainted anyway. I see frustration growing on both sides, mine coming from incessant road blocks being thrown up for no real reason and blocking progress on pay improvements and quality of life enhancements. I shake my head in disbelief to actually read east pilots think they are winning with this delay strategy. It has been four years now and we have to move forward at some point. Maybe you don't see it, however many out west do and we understand you cannot win by running out the clock. If you find that fact "flame bait", so be it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

But I recieved some information that you did not. The last line of it says, "It is anticipated that future bids will add additional 330 positions, IRO lines for CLT 76I and that all PHL and CLT 76 flying will be international (with domestic flying being done by the 76I division). "

Gunther,

My bad. When you said that this bid had good things for the East I assumed you were talking about the changes on this specific bid, not the cumulative changes of this and future bids.

Jim

 

[GuntherA320]

Well, the nice thing about having age 60 change is it delayed the massive retirements coming on your side. In another year or so we should have everything worked out contract- wise, so when the attrition really kicks in out east the west pilots will have access to all of those captain slots opening up.

Now, if you really believe what you just read you need to look at life without wearing angry-eyes. Many fear-mongers out east are creating boogey-men at every turn and inventing victories for USAPa out of thin air. Suit yourself, but if you really believe you are winning by holding out on a joint contract then I will offer this to you: In the not-so-distant future, we will be merged. Nobody has retired en masse from your side yet so all of those supposed attrtion opportunities you crow about will be there for all of us out west thanks to age 65. Now, do you want to continue gloating about your deliberate stall tactics?

Chil,

I wouldn't say anyone on the east is gloating. There may be some "I told you so's" The east has been telling you for over a year that we never guaranteed we could get rid of the NIC.....only that we could prevent a cram down. Our worst case scenario was that the Nic would have to be included in any future combined contract. The Judge was never going to immediately impose the Nic award. He pretty much indicated that last December when he dismissed counts 1 and 2 against the company saying that, the company could furlough how they wanted to under seperate ops. Now an appeal will be filed. Will it overturn this ruling? Maybe....Maybe not......but we will continue under seperate ops until a contract is voted on in the affirmative and it is put in place. No one is stalling. This is the way the legal system and the labor system works. It takes years. That's why most people would say it is better to negotiate and come to an agreement outside the legal system rather that fighting your battles through the legal system. A byproduct of the east and west fighting this out in the legal system is that it has provided a fence that we asked for all along. Unfortunately......we are having to pay for a fence.....Unfortunately so are you. One day the west will inherit this place one way or the other. But it will be after the majority of east pilots are long gone. Chil.....as you used to say to us on the east....You had your chance to negotiate.....now you've got what you've got.......which is pretty much what you had 2 years ago.......nothing.

 

[GuntherA320]

Gunther,

My bad. When you said that this bid had good things for the East I assumed you were talking about the changes on this specific bid, not the cumulative changes of this and future bids.

Jim

Jim,

No problem. I agree with a lot of things that you say believe it or not. However, I believe more than 21 new captain positions will be opened up on the 330 within 6 months and this will be a net increase in higher paying jobs. Some people won't like being upended for a short period, but we all knew this was coming sooner or later.

Gunther

 

[GuntherA320]

Maybe you don't see it, however many out west do and we understand you cannot win by running out the clock.

Chil,

Maybe you're too young to remember how Dean Smith coached the North Carolina Tarheels all those years ago. I believe they called it, "The four corners".

Gunther

 

[luvthe9]

Chil,

I wouldn't say anyone on the east is gloating. There may be some "I told you so's" The east has been telling you for over a year that we never guaranteed we could get rid of the NIC.....only that we could prevent a cram down. Our worst case scenario was that the Nic would have to be included in any future combined contract. The Judge was never going to immediately impose the Nic award. He pretty much indicated that last December when he dismissed counts 1 and 2 against the company saying that, the company could furlough how they wanted to under seperate ops. Now an appeal will be filed. Will it overturn this ruling? Maybe....Maybe not......but we will continue under seperate ops until a contract is voted on in the affirmative and it is put in place. No one is stalling. This is the way the legal system and the labor system works. It takes years. That's why most people would say it is better to negotiate and come to an agreement outside the legal system rather that fighting your battles through the legal system. A byproduct of the east and west fighting this out in the legal system is that it has provided a fence that we asked for all along. Unfortunately......we are having to pay for a fence.....Unfortunately so are you. One day the west will inherit this place one way or the other. But it will be after the majority of east pilots are long gone. Chil.....as you used to say to us on the east....You had your chance to negotiate.....now you've got what you've got.......which is pretty much what you had 2 years ago.......nothing.

Bingo ,we have a winner, they just don't get it yet!! Gees, today on the van out or ORD the west capt is shooting his mouth off how they bought us, looked like an idiot, I thought we were past that stage.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

I am curious about the difference between the east pilots breaking their agreement to abide by binding arbitration and the west pilots joing USAPA to avoid termination. If one would judge the first situation as self interest over principles, what would the second suggest? Are those who say the east pilots have no integrity now ready to accuse their west brothers of the same thing if they join USAPA?
Secondly, section 29 terminations will serve to mitigate in a small way the effect of Nic. Management must view this as a perfect storm with the ability to downsize worthless west operations and recall on the east, this carcass of an airline can soon begin to shed the dead weight of PHX and LAS. Finally I feel we are turning the corner.