US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[CallawayGolf]

"In all likelihood" there will be no DFR damages. How do you ever expect to prove ther has been any loss under seperate operations? There aren't, and there's no way anyone is going to say there is with the current Transition Agreement. Even if the NIC was the list as you say, when would it have been implemented? Only with an approved CBA would it have any legs, and no one knows if that would have, or ever will happen. I for one will continue to wait, but will never vote for any contract which contains the NIC.

Well that is quite the pickle USAPA has gotten itself into. Your statement may well be correct absent bad-faith negotiations and the union's failure to represent an entire class of its constituents. Had USAPA negotiated in good faith and put out multiple TAs using the NIC for ratification which were rejected by the membership, then I would agree no damages would have occurred.

However, because they acted outside of their federally-mandated duty as a Collective Bargaining Agent, they have opened themselves (and those who will pay assessments) up to millions in plaintiff attorney fees and the tangible damages of out of seniority furloughs an/or upgrades and lower wages which reasonably could have been achieved through good-faith negotiations with the company. Expect the Addington class to throw everything but the kitchen sink into those calculations and judge Wake will then determine what is reasonable. There is little doubt that USAPA will pay large sums of cash for its federally-prohibited and shameful conduct.

 

[nic4us]

"In all likelihood" there will be no DFR damages. How do you ever expect to prove ther has been any loss under seperate operations?

By showing how forcing continued seperate operations was the game plan from the get go. It was announced by an east ALPA rep at a "consensual solutions meeting", and proposed by Seeham at the DFR trial as a wishful remedy.

When parties enter in good faith to a binding arbitration, they have a good faith expectation to use the results of that arbitration. The loss the West has suffered is a direct result of the bad faith exhibited by the east, and their stated desire to derail the merger by forcing seperate ops. Personally, I would say damages started to accrue the day usapa was elected. The court will probably find they started to accrue at some kind of average contract negotiating timeframe. So 2005 plus say 3 years equals 2008. Two tears of damages and counting.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Thought of a solution to this the other day. The company pays it in the form of retro pay to placate the West pilots. West pilots get retro to when our contract became amendable ( 2006?), east pilots get the new payscale ( a much bigger percentage increase) to payscales that only recently became amendable(1-1-10), and do not have to pay assessments for damages. Problem still remains that there is no longer a West representational body at the bargaining table to cut any deals.

Nice new theory today about damages. How is your theory on the way the company can placate the West doing.

 

[luvn737s]

What is confusing is why the company made the mistake it claims, why it took them over two years to realize their mistake, how their mistake totals up to $2200 per west captain, and why this follows sooo close on the heals of the block hour arbitration that the company lost to the West pilots.

I would think each pilot would have an unique amount due based on their pay rate on the date of each of the training event.

Does Cleary got a CB in that Tar Us? We gotta call him and get an investigation going on this.

"Breaker Breaker Union Breaker this is Lil' Robby. Ya got yer ears on? We got us a 'Boot Hill' [ a west grave-ance that is quiet because it's abandoned] on training pay in Cow Town good buddy. C'mon back fer a Poseidon Adventure [ eat shrimp and drink at the Hyatt Place bar on the USAPA credit card while conspicuously ignoring the training pay issue].

 

[Poug Darker]

I have no idea what the West LOA being discussed says - expires, amendable, lives till negotiated away, whatever. Without that knowledge it's difficult to tell if this is a "shoe on the other foot" deal or not. LOA 93 is explicit - it has an amendable date of 12/31/2010, not a "drop dead" date. What's less clear is the language in the pay section, and that's what an arbitrator will decide. Having read the opening statements of both sides, if the evidence claimed is presented USAPA has a pretty steep hill to climb.

Jim

Ah, Jim, the, ah, arbitration is over? The testimony was presented, and the pilots are awaiting the decision.
Should be out 'soon' (defined loosely as prior to the beginning of the next decade).
Just a little update, no extra charge.
cheers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ah, Jim, the, ah, arbitration is over? The testimony was presented, and the pilots are awaiting the decision.

Thanks for the update.

Jim

 

[Flippin43]

What piques my interest is exactly how much "pilots" rely on outside "legal" counsel to help guide their future.

I come here for my reasons as a pilot, you come here for yours???.

You're "truth" doesn't add up. No amount of lawsuit is going to do do anything but ultimately bankrupt what's left of the unity (NOT UNION), which is what the West is doing to the group as a whole. Blame? I call it as WE, the EASt pilots, see it. Bankrupt USAPA, their is no such thing as "individual" damages. Won't get a nickel out of me. I know there doing it out of ignorance, my burnng question is, WHY YOU???

No CBA, no contract, no nic, no nothing. Look at what the West component is complaining of against the company. Payroll deductions for training??
Why will YOU not tell them the FACT that if there is NO damages if there is no MONEY!!

That is what I'm saying. You may be trying to "opine" about your "truths", I just find it humorous how you'll "opine" on truths to win THEIR accolades but "opineng" on other "truths", at least from YOU, are silent.



Don't cry to EAST pilots to help you, we're so unfair!!!

That's not the only "9th" that's going to "rain on the parade". The judges need time to read and understand the case. I believe they're doing a THOUROUGH job of reviewing. In the mean time, Tic toc, Tic toc.

EOA,

Indeed, you are unfair, I'm glad you have finally come to that realization. Usually that the first step in recovery, right.

Anyway,

Fair or not. You have decided to become our own in house CBA. as such you do not get to pick who you represent. You represent ALL US Airways Pilots. If the Company is leaning on the US Airways pilots based in PHX, usapa is required to engage. PERIOD.

I didn't say you have to want to.


Flip

 

[Flippin43]

Fortunately I WON'T be flying with YOU! AS far as putting out the Kirby PROPOSAL...repeat PROPOSAL...unions NEVER put PROPOSALS out for a vote. Geeesh, where do you guys come up with these fantasies???

When I GO SHOPPING IN WALMART, I'll look for you. Which blue vest will you be wearing??

Most EAST pilots DO agree with me. They don't "jerk" the gear for you, either.

1987 to 2001...14 years. I'm here 23 years. My cover is blown. Math calculations HURT. Want another good math calculation...here's a really funny one:



Hope you're laughing now???

EOA,

Laughing..........you bet. You made my day and you couldn't have done it any better if you tried to on purpose.


23 years eh,.............................I'm ahead of you.


Hope YOU'RE laughing now!

Flip

 

[end_of_alpa]

EOA,

Indeed, you are unfair, I'm glad you have finally come to that realization. Usually that the first step in recovery, right.

Anyway,

Fair or not. You have decided to become our own in house CBA. as such you do not get to pick who you represent. You represent ALL US Airways Pilots. If the Company is leaning on the US Airways pilots based in PHX, usapa is required to engage. PERIOD.

I didn't say you have to want to.


Flip

USAPA has to represent. you.

I don't.

 

[end_of_alpa]

EOA,

Laughing..........you bet. You made my day and you couldn't have done it any better if you tried to on purpose.


23 years eh,.............................I'm ahead of you.


Hope YOU'RE laughing now!

Flip

Only IF I honor YOUR seniority, eh? Integrity matters, right?

No union, NO seniority. Be ready to walk the picket line, because "enough is enough", right??

Bet that "$2200 in overpayments from ALL PHX Captains and about $1500 from ALL PHX F/O’s" is gonna sting!

Who's watching yuor "six" now?

It won't be me, that's for sure. Every man for himself.

 

[end_of_alpa]

EOA,

Indeed, you are unfair, I'm glad you have finally come to that realization. Usually that the first step in recovery, right.

Anyway,

Fair or not. You have decided to become our own in house CBA. as such you do not get to pick who you represent. You represent ALL US Airways Pilots. If the Company is leaning on the US Airways pilots based in PHX, usapa is required to engage. PERIOD.

I didn't say you have to want to.


Flip

"I", repeat "I", am NOT your in house union....USAPA is. I do NOT know how they'll handle it. Rest assured that all those volunteer grievance committee members will do THEIR best to support your grievance before the company.


You have to separate ME and each and every individual pilot, east OR west, from USAPA. You and I can do whatever we want.

IF indeed you guys were overpaid the company WILL collect. What, you think they'll let YOU keep it?? Crocodile tears.

There's PHX, then there's reality.

 

[flyinawa]

Only IF I honor YOUR seniority, eh? Integrity matters, right?

No union, NO seniority. Be ready to walk the picket line, because "enough is enough", right??

Bet that "$2200 in overpayments from ALL PHX Captains and about $1500 from ALL PHX F/O’s" is gonna sting!

Who's watching your "six" now?

It won't be me, that's for sure. Every man for himself.

No wonder you wanted to get rid of ALPA so badly. You could hardly wait to play "screw your co-workers" and they wouldn't let you play. Tsk-Tsk...you're one sad kid. On the bright side, the FAA now allows you to take anti- depressants that can really help take the edge off. Best of luck in your treatment!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well that is quite the pickle USAPA has gotten itself into. Your statement may well be correct absent bad-faith negotiations and the union's failure to represent an entire class of its constituents. Had USAPA negotiated in good faith and put out multiple TAs using the NIC for ratification which were rejected by the membership, then I would agree no damages would have occurred.

However, because they acted outside of their federally-mandated duty as a Collective Bargaining Agent, they have opened themselves (and those who will pay assessments) up to millions in plaintiff attorney fees and the tangible damages of out of seniority furloughs an/or upgrades and lower wages which reasonably could have been achieved through good-faith negotiations with the company. Expect the Addington class to throw everything but the kitchen sink into those calculations and judge Wake will then determine what is reasonable. There is little doubt that USAPA will pay large sums of cash for its federally-prohibited and shameful conduct.

So, this is what Jacobs is spewing???


I wouldn't be depositing those checks just yet.

 

[Metroyet]

USAPA has to represent. you.

I don't.

Who cares about you? We just want your dues money. Keep up the dues check off and stay current with your impending assessments. Even though USAPA lied to you and still charge as much as ALPA without so much as a fraction of the representation or effectiveness, we still plan on pulling ever cent possible out of your threadbare LOA93 pockets. True enough you don't represent the West but you WILL pay your share to fund it. I'd hate to see a sec. 29 letter hit your doorstep.