US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/24-6/30 Stay On Topic

[EastUS]

QUOTE (cleardirect @ Jun 27 2009, 07:40 AM) *

Let’s get a contract and put it on the table let’s see what the vote is.

I say prove it.

What contract is ready? I don't know ......

That first and last are just a wee bit mutually incompatible, at least within any context of logical process. Ive no idea as to how long it will take to birth a viable contract offering to vote on. Neither do you. When that's done; we'll have a vote, as has always been the planned proceeding. if you've any brilliant ideas for expediting the process; I'd suggest making them know to your reps and the union in general. All the ranting in the world won't matter otherwise.

The middle portion, "I say prove it", has been previously covered by your own observation = "But stomping your feet, holding your breath and talking tough. Yawn!"

 

[EastUS]

If you don't think your "union" is there to provide this, then I have to ask, Why do you bother with union membership?

So, evidently on the east, it really is all about "MEEEEE!!"

luvn737s:"Conflict with management??? Oh, I'd love to see a strike vote under this crew. We all need more laughter.."

All can clearly see just exactly how much help you and yours would EVER be in obtaining "an industry leading contract"....small wonder that management's laughing :blink:

"So, evidently on the east, it really is all about "MEEEEE!!"

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

QUOTE (cleardirect @ Jun 27 2009, 07:40 AM) *

Let’s get a contract and put it on the table let’s see what the vote is.

I say prove it. Bring a contract and let's see. If it is 90%/10% then we know. If it is 51%/49% no, then we also know.

you say, you say, who are you? you don't have a say, not an effective one anyway, we don't care what you say. WE say we don't need a vote so there will be no vote.

 

[HPDriver]

WE say we don't need a vote so there will be no vote.

Sorry to burst your bubble chief, but Wake says there WILL be a vote so it doesn't matter what you say.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

Sorry to burst your bubble chief, but Wake says there WILL be a vote so it doesn't matter what you say.

yes there will be one, i was refering to the general idea of pushing this as hard as we can to get a vote vs going as slow as we legally can till there is nothing left to do but put it out for a vote... a long long legal time from now. The idea of putting something, anything out for a vote asap to demonstrate east resolve or lack of resolve is not something anyone I have met on the east is interested in. So we should do it anyway for the non members? Sell your integrity for a union pin then maybe we can talk.

 

[EastUS]

Would you be suggesting that part of such is merely acknowledging when someone is acting upon that belief? Or perhaps the converse, if one refuses to acknowledge one is acting upon principle then...

Pretty much. My thinking was/is that anyone who backs up their actual principles, regardless of personal cost, is most worthy of my fullest respect for their convictions, and it's certainly proper for me to offer that respect. nic4us indicated that he's not going to join or pay, and is evidently willing to suffer any attendant consequences. Backing up one's beliefs in that fashion fully and properly impresses me.

I must note that, within "The ARMY of Leonidas" crowd in general, there seems a much greater amount of "flexibility" with regards to dealings with the evil enemy/USAPA, which they were so sworn to "destroy", and which supposedly has such a short shelf life to come. That sort of "Integrity", in my thinking, amounts to futiley trying to even imagine the actual spartans at the gates of fire, defecting to the persians...which they willingly died rather than do. I guess there's real integrity..versus...ummm..."integrity matters"

 

[cleardirect]

you say, you say, who are you? you don't have a say, not an effective one anyway, we don't care what you say. WE say we don't need a vote so there will be no vote.

You are right about ONE thing. You don’t know who I am. Why is it that I don’t have an effective voice within usapa? “WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU SAYâ€￾ It is that attitude right there that got you and usapa drug into federal court and that is why you and usapa lost a DFR suit. The WE had better start to care what me and the rest of the west has to say PDQ.

We? You sir have one vote. Just the same as me, one vote. By denying me and everyone else our vote you are denying us our federal rights. I know that you and the east think of usapa as your toy and you don’t want the west to play with it. But guess what? The section 29 letters are your worst nightmare.

What your emotion has blinded you to is that by denying me and the rest of the west a contract. You are denying the east 80% of that contract. Enjoy your B scale. Now explain that to a 190 officer commuting and sitting reserve. That he is going to have to endure poverty wages while you delay a federal injunction.

Nice union brotherhood. Screw the junior guy for your benefit. Screw the senior guy for your benefit. Screw the west for your benefit.

 

[EastUS]

By denying me and everyone else our vote you are denying us our federal rights.

But guess what? The section 29 letters are your worst nightmare.

Screw the senior guy for your benefit.

Impressive tantrum, but:

1) I'm honestly curious = Specifically; what are you demanding a vote on?

2) Again curious = How so?

3) Isn't that the entire west agenda?

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

You are right about ONE thing. You don’t know who I am. Why is it that I don’t have an effective voice within usapa? “WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU SAY†It is that attitude right there that got you and usapa drug into federal court and that is why you and usapa lost a DFR suit. The WE had better start to care what me and the rest of the west has to say PDQ.

We? You sir have one vote. Just the same as me, one vote. By denying me and everyone else our vote you are denying us our federal rights. I know that you and the east think of usapa as your toy and you don’t want the west to play with it. But guess what? The section 29 letters are your worst nightmare.

What your emotion has blinded you to is that by denying me and the rest of the west a contract. You are denying the east 80% of that contract. Enjoy your B scale. Now explain that to a 190 officer commuting and sitting reserve. That he is going to have to endure poverty wages while you delay a federal injunction.

Nice union brotherhood. Screw the junior guy for your benefit. Screw the senior guy for your benefit. Screw the west for your benefit.

"WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU SAY†refers to the foot stomping vote demanders who are not even members of the union. For months we have endured your slander and assaults on our Integrity all the while with the holier than thou attitude. I chose to support USAPA to avoid NIC to save my a**. thats right I dont give a damn what your warped impression of my integrity is. Reminds me of an Air Force pilot training story where we were handed down from the previous class the combination to the instructors safe that held test answer keys. We eventually got caught and we were interviewed 1 by 1. everyone denied cheating except 6 guys who were disciplined. These six cheaters had the gall to say we had no integrity because we lied!!! Imagine cheaters have integrity because they are not cheaters and liars...too funny. Well now you fine gentlemen and ladies of honor and principle are gonna line up and pay your dues to USAPA even though it goes against your holy principles to save your a**. You are just like me. signed a 190 F/O.

 

[700UW]

How can the east claim integrity when your elected representatives agreed to binding arbitration and then try every trick known to get out of the decision cause you dont like it?

Pot meet Kettle.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

How can the east claim integrity when your elected representatives agreed to binding arbitration and then try every trick known to get out of the decision cause you dont like it?

Pot meet Kettle.

Bingo!

How can the east expect anyone to live by any agreement when they have done everything possible to weenie out of their agreements?

Hypocrites with an entitlement sickness.

 

[EastUS]

For months we have endured your slander and assaults on our Integrity all the while with the holier than thou attitude.

I've done some degree of thinking on that, since that bizarre behavior was initially, almost incomprehensible to me. All I've been able to come up with though, is that, in order for anyone to be willfully seeking to disregard many years of work by any other...entirely in favor of their own selfish interest...I believe one would first have to do some serious mental squirming. What more perfect solution to any associated moral distress could there be, than to universally fantasize and acclaim that some arbitrator's whim could somehow, magically confer heartfelt and life-long "Integrity" on them at a stroke of the magician's/arbitrator's wand?

Offer up a big enough lie...repeat it constantly..and, well...there they went....

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

How can the east claim integrity when your elected representatives agreed to binding arbitration and then try every trick known to get out of the decision cause you dont like it?

Pot meet Kettle.

you guys are just way to hung up on this stupid "integrity" kick. I never "claimed integrity". My integrity is my business and I have zero regard for what you think about it. But since you opened the door no one has yet to answer what your gonna say to your little baby girl when she asks "daddy, (mommy) whats integrity and why did you sacrifice your priciples to save yourself from termination by joining USAPA and how can you claim to be such pillar of integity when you turned tail at the first sign of hardship?" All of you are exactly like all of us and trust me thats a compliment. Get off your high horses, your full of it and you know it. Keep on fighting the good fight, we will too and I for one respect you for that at least but get over this BS about how righteous you are, you are just as greedy as I am. fools

 

[HPearlyretiree]

you guys are just way to hung up on this stupid "integrity" kick. I never "claimed integrity". My integrity is my business and I have zero regard for what you think about it. But since you opened the door no one has yet to answer what your gonna say to your little baby girl when she asks "daddy, (mommy) whats integrity and why did you sacrifice your priciples to save yourself from termination by joining USAPA and how can you claim to be such pillar of integity when you turned tail at the first sign of hardship?" All of you are exactly like all of us and trust me thats a compliment. Get off your high horses, your full of it and you know it. Keep on fighting the good fight, we will too and I for one respect you for that at least but get over this BS about how righteous you are, you are just as greedy as I am. fools

Daddy, what is Binding Arbitration?

It is when two sides can't come to an agreement, so they agree to bring in a very smart man to make a decision, and both sides will act like grown ups and live by the decision the smart man makes.

Daddy, why was USAPA formed?

Because the east decided not to act like grown ups and they were angry formed their own union.

Daddy, that is wrong!

I know, but sometimes you just have to talk about integrity and not actually demonstrate it.

Daddy?

Yes dear?

You are seriously messed up.

 

[700UW]

Funny you deflected and did not answer the question at hand, and sorry not a pilot and dont have a dog in this fight, I am a former IAM M&R member who was on the negotiating committee, maybe instead of attacking me as a poster you might actually answer a question poised to you.

Yes you did claim an attack on your integrity:

"For months we have endured your slander and assaults on our Integrity all the while with the holier than thou attitude. I chose to support USAPA to avoid NIC to save my a**. thats right I dont give a damn what your warped impression of my integrity is. Well now you fine gentlemen and ladies of honor and principle are gonna line up and pay your dues to USAPA even though it goes against your holy principles to save your a**. You are just like me. signed a 190 F/O.

Maybe if you acted with some integrity you wouldnt be where you are at now, integrity means you honor binding arbitration awards.

Seems to me its the east pilots who are acting holier than though and now a federal jury found your union has no integrity.