US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/24-6/30 Stay On Topic

[Megasnoop]

Indignant is the proper word, and I'm not alone. The rest of the airline industry sees the antics of USAPA for what they are. Likewise, that same opinion transmutes to the indiviudal East pilots who perpetrated this debacle with their vote.

Nothing substantive, so your back to insults? You dont get your fantasy remedy and now all the industry is our enemy? I'm sure we'll cry all the way to the next contract, if there is one, or LOA84 rates, whichever comes first. We'll try our best, but as A320driver said,

They want CUTS not RAISES. They have all but backed out on their offer of parity + 3%.

Pay attention, Aquaman, Driver's got it right. There's no 50 grand payraise out there any time soon.

Good, because there's two options for the East at this point: LOA 93 ad infinitim or 50 grand a year in payraises for captains and 35 grand a year for F/Os, 15% into the 401k plus a return to major airline work rules, but with the Nic. You're welcome to choose your poison as you wish. That's the beauty of a democracy.

Or we can wait until the company implements the Hemenway Letter and YOU get optioned to LOA93. No worries, USAPA will file a grievance. THEN we all get that 3% raise. BTW, 15% 401k may be industry average, but its not in any proposal from company on the table now. On the bright side, after we go on LOA84 rates, with Hemenway in place, maybe you get a big raise.

Careful, you're getting closer to reality. . .
Well, there's a pretty intricate administrative organization called the NMB that has the tools to push the two sides through a collective bargaining process. I doubt the East will be able to hold up another seniority integration just because they don't like accepting a federal arbitration and when they are under court order to negotiate in good faith for a joint contract that includes Nicolau. Good luck trying to get any help from any agency, court or arbitrator.

Aquaman, your knowledge how the NMB works is lacking. NMB cant force arbitration on either party, unless you think Congress is going to re-write the RLA. Both sides have to mutually agree to wage arbitration. Refusing would not be in violation of Wakes order, even if it holds. Besides, you really think the company would agree to arbitration?

 

[EastUS]

??? You're getting Nicolau in total. If you want to sit under the LOA 93 tree for the next ten years, be my guest. But we all know where this industry is headed, and sitting stagnant for another one year, let alone five or ten years, is not going to happen.

"Possibly, but doubtful. Wait . . . what's that I hear . . . (whooo whooo, chuga chuga chuga whooo whooo) That's the freight train of Western Pacific Reality headed this way! Watch out! Anyone who believes the status quo will be in place a year from now, let alone four years from now, then I have some beach front real estate for sale in Phoenix."



OK...ao which is it?...really? "If you want to sit under the LOA 93 tree for the next ten years, be my guest." or:
"(whooo whooo, chuga chuga chuga whooo whooo)"....." sitting stagnant for another one year, let alone five or ten years, is not going to happen."????

See...here's the difficulty with that = "(whooo whooo, chuga chuga chuga whooo whooo)" presumes substantial industry changes forthcoming. That's very possible indeed. However; within that assumption..there seems even LESS of any rational basis for the east to vote in a nic-inclusive contract. What am I missing here?

 

[ableoneable]

Not sure about being behind. With ALPA, we were essentially nowhere. ALPA even broke off talks. ALPA was canned before the company put The Kirby on the table. On scheduling, we’re getting cooperation from your best scheduling aces, Wxxxx and Jxxxx

It is they who think that you are clueless.

 

[700UW]

I think a lot of you on here are confusing arbitration and mediation, the NMB is mediating Section 6 on the west.

When an impasse is declared the NMB will proffer arbitration, which normally both sides refuse.

Then you go into the 30 day cooling off period, at the end of the 30 days, you can be free to strike, the company can impose a cba, or the President can declare a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) and they will come up with a CBA, that you can vote on after 60 more additional days or Congress can actually legislate your CBA and you cant strike and the company cant impose, this happens in the railroads all the time.

 

[traderjake]

More than than anything A-west pays. Remember jet blue 190 guys make more than you there laughing at you!! I'd be worried about cut backs on the west side if I were you. We have to get rid of the dead wood!!

I'm an East pilot. Nice try.

Is keeping a few West pilots off the 330 is worth LOA 93 pay rates for 3000 East pilots?

 

[WestMetal]

More than than anything A-west pays. Remember jet blue 190 guys make more than you there laughing at you!! I'd be worried about cut backs on the west side if I were you. We have to get rid of the dead wood!! Keep on trying though.

Good grief. Really? Dead wood? Someone is laughing at me? I'm stunned.

 

[EastUS]

It is they who think that you are clueless.

Hmmm...what even possibly viable, and truly unique subtlety of the mind, or properly elegant riposte could ever afford rescue from this new onslaught?....yet another devastating outbreak of west genius reigning triumphant and yet, somehow, rather condescending?....I must simply surrender, being not personally up to the tasking, and must woefully borrow from your very own experts as to what constitutes clueless = "(whooo whooo, chuga chuga chuga whooo whooo)"

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think a lot of you on here are confusing arbitration and mediation, the NMB is mediating Section 6 on the west.

I may have used the wrong term - arbitrator instead of mediator or vice versa - but I'm too lazy to go back and check.

There are no Section 6 talks taking place, at least for the pilots' contracts. A mediator has been invited to facilitate the combined contract talks as allowed for by the transition agreement. Since combined contract negotiations are not Section 6 negotiations, the process is a little different - the parties can commence Section 6 negotiations after a specific date if either side desires, then the normal process would prevail. But it appears that the judge is going to preclude Section 6 negotiations.

Jim

 

[700UW]

I believe the west pilots are in section 6 with the use of a mediator.

 

[nic4us]

As a favor then; I'll ask of you the following: Let us know at least the approximate date that the first west pilot will take an east seat....?

I can answere this one. No West pilot will ever take an east seat. All pilots can only claim company seats which are within the individual pilots seniority rights to claim. If a former West pilot happens to hold a captain seat in CLT, that seat is not east's property it is that individuals.

But in a practical sense, the real answere to your question is on or about the same day Sully flies out of PHX.

 

[EastUS]

He pretty much indicated that last December when he dismissed counts 1 and 2 against the company saying that, the company could furlough how they wanted to under seperate ops.

Chil.....as you used to say to us on the east....You had your chance to negotiate.....now you've got what you've got.......which is pretty much what you had 2 years ago.......nothing.

1) It's a very good thing indeed for the west that they're the true mainstay and backbone of the operation. Any/all reductions will certainly come from the east side, and all growth from and within the west operation.

2) Pretty much my take as well......

 

[BoeingBoy]

I believe the west pilots are in section 6 with the use of a mediator.

There are no Section 6 negotiations going on at this time and it looks like none will occur. At one time the West started Section 6 but the negotiations were suspended after USAPA was voted in and before they progressed to the point of mediation - I think there was only one or two sessions with the company negotiators.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

I can answere this one. No West pilot will ever take an east seat. All pilots can only claim company seats which are within the individual pilots seniority rights to claim. If a former West pilot happens to hold a captain seat in CLT, that seat is not east's property it is that individuals.

But in a practical sense, the real answere to your question is on or about the same day Sully flies out of PHX.

" If a former West pilot happens to hold a captain seat in CLT, that seat is not east's property it is that individuals." Ah!..So much for just the jobs that you "brought" to the merger then?...I see Whew!...all that west "Integrity" seems very, very flexible indeed

This is especially amusing in light of all the countless west postings regarding how none of you EVER wanted to come east

"No West pilot will ever take an east seat." Well..it's a true pity that's not possible to completely and permanently ensure...but, I ask again = What's your envisioned time frame for that actually ever happening?

PS: Captain Sullenberger nowadays has far better things to do than waste his time with PHX......

 

[nic4us]

They are trying to destroy your career and you are going to give them money? If that rubs you the wrong way then why are you doing it? To save your A**, thats why. For Sale: Integrity. SOLD!!!!

I will not join, nor give them money. Well, a little for the furloughed folks but that does not count.

Why are you giving them money? Wanted: group of disgruntled malcontents willing to compromise their morals to harm their fellow employees, respond to the lawfirm of SSM&P and we can work out a payment plan to milk you throughout a long process in which you stand no chance of winning.

 

[EastUS]

I will not join, nor give them money. Well, a little for the furloughed folks but that does not count.

For all our manifest differences nic4us....you seem an essentially decent fellow. If you're truly in earnest as to "I will not join, nor give them money."...well...for what little it's worth...you have my full respect for standing firm for your beliefs and principles. That's the tricky and troublesome little part of having principles = One must adhere to them, regardless of personal cost, or..they don't exist at all. People tragically and routinely die for such notions, and...well...any job's only so much of the bigger picture. Do not take that last at all amiss,as anything trite, or meaning other than what's said. A man must always strive to do what he feels correct....or become forever less than a man.