US Pilots Labor Thread 6/2-6/9 STAY ON TOPIC

[ClueByFour]

Did you ever think that the BPR is doing EXACTLY what their consituents ask them to do?

It's official then: stupid _is_ as stupid does....

 

[nycbusdriver]

Eventually there will be a majority that demands that their leaders earn their FPL by delivering real economic improvements, not more rah-rah rhetoric.

This is a BPR-governed union. The real power, and therefore the real leaders, are the reps. And the reps are not on FPL.

 

[Pi brat]

Hey guys for a change of pace go over to the Delta board and read- Blended Seniority List...have you seen it?!?

Some things are universal.

 

[luvn737s]

This is a BPR-governed union. The real power, and therefore the real leaders, are the reps. And the reps are not on FPL.

RESOLVED: The number of shells shall be increased to 5 and the number of peas increased to 2 so as to adequately reflect our committment to obfuscation and to make running the union more sporting:
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

 

[cleardirect]

Did you ever think that the BPR is doing EXACTLY what their consituents ask them to do? Just because the west doesn't like it, doesn't mean they don't have membership support on the east.

Believe me, they do. And lots of it. They are mostly doing EXACTLY what I expect them to do. My differences with them so far have been very minor.

That is one of the most disturbing statement posted here. I believe you that the east pilots do want the BPR to continue doing just what they are doing. If you are correct then it is the east pilots that are and have been attacking and unfairly treating the west pilots. If they are doing what you want them to do then you are responsible for the DFR you have no one to blame but yourself. Thank you for admitting to the DFR. Now how does that fact that you want the west treated unfairly square with the two years in going to the court of appeals? If you admit that they are acting the way you want how do you expect to convince the court that you are not in DFR?

There are to types of leaders. The first type is the type that the east has had in power. Leaders that get out in front and change direction as the groups changes their mind. Not really leaders just people that like to be recognized. True leaders have ideas and sometimes have to convince or lead the group that what they need to do is the right thing not the popular thing. A leader is someone who gets people to follow them and their ideas. True leaders of usapa would be leading this pilot group away from unfairness. It would be unpopular but that is what is going to have to happen. Otherwise this group can not move forward.

Where are the leaders that are going to tell the east pilots that what they want is wrong and now proven to be against the law? Who is the leader that has better ideas then to continue down the destructive path that splits this pilot group and gives our money to management will little to no resistance?

This is a BPR-governed union. The real power, and therefore the real leaders, are the reps. And the reps are not on FPL.

This is not about money or FPL. It is about responsibility and leadership. The current national leaders and members of the BPR are not leaders they are puppets of the undisciplined. The BPR or reps are nothing more then people that allow mob rule. The lack of leadership has consequences. So far that has been a federal court and very soon remedies and damages. What will it take to end mob rule and put responsible leaders in place that will tell the children NO! you need to stop that behavior? Where is the adult supervision? I am not a fan of ALPA they have their problems. Teamsters whoever. But the one thing they did provide was oversight, adult supervision. We hear a lot of complaints about ALPA and how bad they were. Ask yourself did the local reps ever disregard nationals advice and find themselves in a worse situations?

 

[Megasnoop]

Please ask your beloved union President how much flight pay loss he is being paid. I'm sure you will find he is not receiving 70 hours of pay as he advocates his fellow pilots to do.

While your at it, please obtain a detailed accounting of how much of USAPA's dues money has gone to Seham and Co. Break out the monies spent on litigating the Addington suit. I'm sure you feel your getting your money's worth. I don't.

924, you dont even know how to spell Stephen, wont admit it and you expect us to take you seriously. You cant even pull off a gotcha. Clearys our president and our bully pulpit. Power lies in the BPR. But on 70 hours, when a pilot SAPs down, he stays home. Cleary is still working full-time.

Looks like the Seham bill is going to be over $1M for the DFR alone. Money well spent and we got it to spend. As Ive said before, Donn, unless the BPR changes its mind, we follow this through to conclusion. Every pilot represented by USAPA (member or not) is going to be paying. DFR expense are germane expense, not according to me, but according to Ellis V Railway Clerks, 8-1 Supreme Court decision ("litigation not involving the negotiation of agreements or settlement of grievances"). That was a Railway Labor Act case. Last I checked we still covered by the RLA.

 

[hp_fa]

Looks like the Seham bill is going to be over $1M for the DFR alone. Money well spent and we got it to spend. As Ive said before, Donn, unless the BPR changes its mind, we follow this through to conclusion. Every pilot represented by USAPA (member or not) is going to be paying. DFR expense are germane expense, not according to me, but according to Ellis V Railway Clerks, 8-1 Supreme Court decision ("litigation not involving the negotiation of agreements or settlement of grievances"). That was a Railway Labor Act case. Last I checked we still covered by the RLA.

Snoop,

If I were a plaintiff or plaintiffs' attorney in the Addington suit I would be making a very concerted effort to specifically exclude any West pilots (USAPA members or objectors) from being responsible for the portion of dues or agency fees that represents legal costs or fees, along with any costs incurred by USAPA due to the various legal proceedings. Failing to be exempt from those monies effectively means that the plaintiffs are paying a proportion of the opponent's legal fees and costs when that same opponent is the party that is being found to be the party that acted contrary to law.

This screams for an equitable remedy.

 

[Captain Underpants]

True leaders of usapa would be leading this pilot group away from unfairness. It would be unpopular but that is what is going to have to happen. Otherwise this group can not move forward.

Yes I agree completely.....the USAPA leaders are true leaders and are leading this pilot group away from unfairness. It is unpopular with the pilots who would benefit from that unfairness but it is what is going to have to happen for the group to move forward.

The court only determines if a chosen path is legal.......there are many legal paths to fairness but no sustainable paths to unfairness.

underpants

 

[N924PS]

As Ive said before, Donn, unless the BPR changes its mind, we follow this through to conclusion.

You think I'm Donn B? Very imaginative, but as usual, completely wrong.

I've paid every other assessment over the years. Furloughed pilots medical, EAL assessment, CAL assessment, and my favorite, paying for our own disability insurance every paycheck.

And next paying damages for the USAPA disenfranchised Westies.

That will never be money well spent. Just like gambling, never to be seen again and nothing to show for it.

 

[luvn737s]

, unless the BPR changes its mind,

The rental charges on that thing must be terrible

 

[ALPO NO MO]

You think I'm Donn B? Very imaginative, but as usual, completely wrong.

I've paid every other assessment over the years. Furloughed pilots medical, EAL assessment, CAL assessment, and my favorite, paying for our own disability insurance every paycheck.

And next paying damages for the USAPA disenfranchised Westies.

That will never be money well spent. Just like gambling, never to be seen again and nothing to show for it.

Nah, N924PS was "The Smile of Burbank" aka The Porn Industry hometown so can't be Donny. Must be ex-PSA, you know, the guys who screwed over the last chance Braniff pilots had.

 

[nic4us]

Looks like the Seham bill is going to be over $1M for the DFR alone. Money well spent and we got it to spend. As Ive said before, Donn, unless the BPR changes its mind, we follow this through to conclusion. Every pilot represented by USAPA (member or not) is going to be paying. DFR expense are germane expense, not according to me, but according to Ellis V Railway Clerks, 8-1 Supreme Court decision ("litigation not involving the negotiation of agreements or settlement of grievances"). That was a Railway Labor Act case. Last I checked we still covered by the RLA.

I am thinking not only will I not have to pay Seham's bill, I doubt I will have to pay any agency shop fees to the union who has beed found liable in a case that proved they discriminated against me, until they stop the discrimination, so go ahead and appeal, we can start the dues paying clock when you are done.

Further, I do not know the total for Shugart Thompson, but I am thinking that will probably be paid for by USAPA minus the West.

 

[ClueByFour]

Looks like the Seham bill is going to be over $1M for the DFR alone. Money well spent and we got it to spend. As Ive said before, Donn, unless the BPR changes its mind, we follow this through to conclusion.

Roll something in that cash and smoke it. It'll be more useful with a more pleasurable outcome.

Every pilot represented by USAPA (member or not) is going to be paying. DFR expense are germane expense, not according to me, but according to Ellis V Railway Clerks, 8-1 Supreme Court decision ("litigation not involving the negotiation of agreements or settlement of grievances"). That was a Railway Labor Act case. Last I checked we still covered by the RLA.

Snooper, Dog, this may be the only question that SCOTUS takes if it gets that far. Ellis also says:

Hence, when employees such as petitioners object to being burdened with particular union expenditures, the test must be whether the challenged expenditures are necessarily or reasonably incurred for the purpose of performing the duties of an exclusive representative of the employees in dealing with the employer on labor-management issues. Under this standard, objecting employees may be compelled to pay their fair share of not only the direct costs of negotiating and administering a collective bargaining contract and of settling grievances and disputes, but also the expenses of activities or undertakings normally or reasonably employed to implement or effectuate the duties of the union as exclusive representative of the employees in the bargaining unit.

You don't honestly think (well, you thought USAPA really would allow for a DOH cramdown, so you might) think that SCOTUS (or, for that matter, the 9th Circuit) is going to allow for the union to charge the members who it's been found of guilty of perpetuating DFR on to pay to defend it, do you? Keep in mind that the court did not specifically address a USAPA-style DFR suit as an objectionable activity in Ellis[/b]. And, any judge is going to find that having the West class pay for defending against a DFR perpetuated upon the class is neither necessary or reasonable.

It's the test that matters.

You guys are better than cable. It's a beer and popcorn moment.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes I agree completely.....the USAPA leaders are true leaders and are leading this pilot group away from unfairness. It is unpopular with the pilots who would benefit from that unfairness but it is what is going to have to happen for the group to move forward.

The court only determines if a chosen path is legal.......there are many legal paths to fairness but no sustainable paths to unfairness.

underpants

usapa found liable for the DUTY OF FAIR REPRESENTATION. That means that usapa was NOT acting fairly. So continuing on the same path does not lead away but instead further unfairness. This is not open to debate. This is settled in a court of law.

usapa needs to change direction. True leaders need to force that change. The current BPR are not leading in that direction.

 

[hp_fa]

It's a beer and popcorn moment.

I never developed a taste for beer and popcorn. Beer and pretzels or beer and nachos sound better....