US Pilots Labor Thread 6/2-6/9 STAY ON TOPIC

[traderjake]

Cleary is so predictable.

Why did you east guys vote for him?

Because he tells us what they want to hear, of course.

 

[Waketurbulence]

Maybe because I am an outsider, but before reading the Plaintiffs Response to the Motion for Summary Judgment I never realized that there were as many people who were leaders in East ALPA and are now leaders in USAPA, especially Cleary, Parella & Ciabattoni. I knew that Randy Mowrey had been on the merger committees of both, but that to me was not a significant conflict of interest. However these other folks are significantly conflicted.

One more thing. I was paying attention to the supposed argument that the East MEC was bad and USAPA is good. That argument in now dead-on-arrival. There are way too many joint actors for that argument to now be viable. I had never put all the pieces together until I had read the Plaintiffs' Response.

I think it goes to show just how despicable that organization is and the lack of moral integrity of the people running it.

 

[Metroyet]

I think it goes to show just how despicable that organization is and the lack of moral integrity of the people running it.

But what about the Sanctity of "core union values"? The Labor Movement?

 

[traderjake]

But what about the Sanctity of "core union values"? The Labor Movement?

Trying to steal another man's job while hiding behind DOH is not a "core union value".

We're suppose to watch each other's back, not stab it.

 

[A320 Driver]

Cleary is so predictable. Keep stoking the anti-west sentiment. Keep making it personal. Keep deferring leadership.

Why did you east guys vote for him?

I wouldn't vote for him for dogcatcher.

A320 Driver <_<

 

[Megasnoop]

Maybe because I am an outsider, but before reading the Plaintiffs Response to the Motion for Summary Judgment I never realized that there were as many people who were leaders in East ALPA and are now leaders in USAPA, especially Cleary, Parella & Ciabattoni. I knew that Randy Mowrey had been on the merger committees of both, but that to me was not a significant conflict of interest. However these other folks are significantly conflicted.

For what good it will do, just to set the record straight ONE MORE TIME, Randy Mowrey WAS on the merger committee, from 1998 to 2000! He got canned by the MEC after the Shuttle debacle. He had nothing to do with the MEC, MC or anything in ALPA from the merger announcement going forward. I never heard his name mentioned as a USAPA operative. I dont think his ALPA roots would allow it.

Mike and Tracy held no elected positions. They were involved in system board and grievances, period. With 17 other elected positions, they were hardly "leaders" in any sense of the word. They did outstanding grunt work for the MEC. Tracy still does grievances and a darn good job at it. Dave Ciabattoni was an elected Rep, REMOVED from office by Darth Prater. Ciabattoni was at odds with Jack Stephen from when he got elected in fall 2006. He was kept out of the loop. ALPA spent a fortune trying to stay on property. Stephen grovelled in emails, videos, meetings to save the mother ship. When ALPA was gone, his cushy, non-flying job and expense account went with it. The ALPA defeat turned him into a near non-entity. Conecting him with some kind of USAPA conspiracy is ludicrous. Nice try connecting dots that dont exist in any of this.

One more thing. I was paying attention to the supposed argument that the East MEC was bad and USAPA is good. That argument in now dead-on-arrival. There are way too many joint actors for that argument to now be viable. I had never put all the pieces together until I had read the Plaintiffs' Response.

"Joint Actors?" Name them. Actually, I wish there were, because if USAPA could be tied into a conspiracy with the AAA MEC leadership, guess whos on the hook to be added to the damages? ALPA! snooper

Once again, I am not a West pilot, and have never worked for America West or US Airways.

Now, the East pilots are going to finance their own crackpot secret investigation into the pension termination. Great, now I won't have to pay some assessment to have some crackpot secret investigation for our pension termination. Thanks for saving me the money.

So your not a West pilot and now you "wont have to pay some assessment to have some crackpot secret investigation for our pension termination."

And your NOT a west pilot? So what am I missing here?

 

[Freighterguynow]

The furloughed pilots could bid any vacancy their seniority would hold, and displace pilots that should have been furloughed based on their Nic seniority.

Does the West beleive in honoring their agreements? Your damn right we do and the integrity of the West has been displayed since the day of the merger.

... and yet you agreed to 'no bump no flush' right?

 

[N924PS]

Stephen grovelled in emails, videos, meetings to save the mother ship. When ALPA was gone, his cushy, non-flying job and expense account went with it.

And now Cleary has a cushy, non-flying job and an expense account. And gets maximum flight pay loss while asking the rest of his pilots to SAP down to 70 hours.

And when you disparage someone you should at least have his name correct. STEPHAN not Stephen.

 

[ussnark]

And now Cleary has a cushy, non-flying job and an expense account. And gets maximum flight pay loss while asking the rest of his pilots to SAP down to 70 hours.

"non-flying job", except he stays current, checks, landings and physical.
"expense account", so, he should pay expenses out of his own pocket?
"maximum flight pay loss". As in, um, what are you talking about? Is there, by extension, a minimum flight pay loss? Is he getting paid some way other than what is in the constitution? Please explain.

 

[nic4us]

Jeez, if we must continue to view this business conflict through a theatrical lens can we at least up the metaphors and analogies to something other than a Frank Miller novel and Monty Python.

The flight attendants like the Greek Play Lysistrata. We usually learn something from the classics.

Well, okay,

I see it as USAPA is Athens and the west is Sparta, no wait that is not right.

USAPA is Lysistrata and they are asking their pilot to withold pay increase, no wait that is not right either.

The company is lysistrata and they are witholding a new contract to end the fight, no not right either.

The West is Sparta, the east is Athens, the company is Lysistrata, Judge Wake and the court system are the pressure of walking around for some time in an excited state of desire????????

Okay, I like the much simpler Black Knight analogy.

"And now for something completely different!"

If AOL is King Arthur, and USAPA is the Black Knight, What is the aerodynamic ratio of a swallow?

 

[Megasnoop]

"non-flying job", except he stays current, checks, landings and physical.
"expense account", so, he should pay expenses out of his own pocket?
"maximum flight pay loss". As in, um, what are you talking about? Is there, by extension, a minimum flight pay loss? Is he getting paid some way other than what is in the constitution? Please explain.

Snark, N924PS is still miffed over losing his ALPA gravy-train perks. So cut him some slack. Personally, if the members dont like Clearys flight pay loss, they can complain to their BPRs. Now, all N924PS had to do is join. Snooper

And when you disparage someone you should at least have his name correct. STEPHAN not Stephen.

Well, 924, all i can go by is how Plaintiff spelled his name in Harpers latest filings,

"Specifically, but not exclusively, Plaintiffs have learned of documents
that likely directly contradict the testimony of one of USAPA’s key
witnesses, Jack Stephen. Plaintiffs intend to direct subpoenas to ALPA and
one of its vendors to produce documents that Plaintiffs believe will directly
contradict the testimony of Mr. Stephen and other USAPA witnesses
concerning what USAPA has referred to as an “impasse of indefinite
duration.â€￾

(Feel free to take your foot out of your mouth, 924)

I love a good conspiracy theory. What did Jack know and when did he know it? "ALPA and one of its vendors." This is cool, ALPA getsdragged into this, maybe even added as a defendant. Now THEREs a deep pocket. No worries on statute of limitations on this, hp. BTW, that "vendor" is most likely Phil Comstock of the Wilson Poll. Seems he might have made a little interpretation error at Wye River. But you already knew all that, 924, from your position on the old MEC, didnt you? snoopo

 

[luvn737s]

Personally, if the members dont like Clearys flight pay loss, they can complain to their BPRs.

Which accomplishes what, exactly? The BPR has done nothing but thumb their nose at the membership and press on with impunity. They won't even abandon their ill-conceived attack on the Cactus 18 because they want to salvage their pride.

Ironic isn't it: USAPA spends all it's efforts trying to sooth wounded pride, yet does nothing to legitimately deserve any.

I bet the 190 pilots would be proud to have the JetBlue (non-union, just like US) rates, but USAPA will not put itself in a position to deliver them anytime soon.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

If AOL is King Arthur, and USAPA is the Black Knight, What is the aerodynamic ratio of a swallow?

African, or European swallow?

 

[ROACLT]

Which accomplishes what, exactly? The BPR has done nothing but thumb their nose at the membership and press on with impunity. They won't even abandon their ill-conceived attack on the Cactus 18 because they want to salvage their pride.

Ironic isn't it: USAPA spends all it's efforts trying to sooth wounded pride, yet does nothing to legitimately deserve any.

I bet the 190 pilots would be proud to have the JetBlue (non-union, just like US) rates, but USAPA will not put itself in a position to deliver them anytime soon.

Let's see. The Kirby proposal which US Airways has stated is all they can afford offers no raise to the E190 pilots. The union and rightfully so has and should continue to reject anything that does not fall somewhere between Alaska's new agreement and the DAL and LUV agreements. As new agreements like Jetblue come in and proably AA and CAL before a new CBA, the average needs to keep up. It's not just about accepting pay that would clearly be inferior for the next 5 years but the weak starting point that would damage pay for the 5 years after that and so on and so forth. Not to mention the East pilots will have a grievance go forward next year to return to LOA 84 pay which if won will rightfully raise the starting point for raises in a new CBA. If the industry and profession has a standard which is clearly being established, its up to any company in said industry to manage itself in a way to bear the cost that other companies who remain competitive do and not the continuing crisis of the employees to bear through concessionary agreements. I don't think there is any doubt that Alaska, DAL, CAL, Jetblue, AA, and LUV are out preforming and with much higher labor costs.

 

[N924PS]

Snark, N924PS is still miffed over losing his ALPA gravy-train perks. So cut him some slack. Personally, if the members dont like Clearys flight pay loss, they can complain to their BPRs. Now, all N924PS had to do is join. Snooper

But you already knew all that, 924, from your position on the old MEC, didnt you? snoopo

Sorry to burst your bubble there Snoop-dog, but I have never served on the MEC. And I am a reluctant dues paying member of USAPA. Although as this unfolds, I may resign and simply pay germane fees.

Just like the rest of your posts, you think you know a lot but you don't, really. Keep on spinning, though if it makes your life fulfilling.