US Pilots' Labor Thread 5/26 to 6/2-- NO PERSONAL COMMENTS

[nic4us]

Honor is what you do with a Jumpseat request...you honor it.

Integrity is what keeps a guy from taking a job at a s h i t outfit and dragging down idustry wages for the rest, you guys flushed that down the toilet a long time ago.

your honor is the correct way to address the person about to give remedy for the east illegal activity, and something that is highly questionable.

Integrity is what keeps me from replying to the rest of your post.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Integrity is what keeps me from replying to the rest of your post.

Hey! I think you just B1tch slapped me!!!!!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Honor is what you do with a Jumpseat request...you honor it.

Integrity is what keeps a guy from taking a job at a s h i t outfit and dragging down idustry wages for the rest, you guys flushed that down the toilet a long time ago.

Honor is something you do when 3 sides sign a binding arbitration agreement.

Integrity is honoring that agreement and not wasting time and money forming a union whose sole purpose is to get out of that agreement.

We are past honor and integrity, your side lost in court.

You MUST use NIC and you MUST run USAPA in a way that doesn't fail to represent. USAPA painted itself into the corner by not using honor or integrity.

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps the solution would be for USAPA to arrange for a voluntary donation from West pilots to a fund which would be used to pay West furloughees (and east non-members if there is such a thing) medical coverage. Would probably get funding from both sides.

Frankly, I would have rather seen Marcio propose this at the meeting, rather than argue with Day about videotaping.

Although I do not know how much they have recieved, the Cactus 18 have recieved financial support from the West but not directly from AWAPPA, only the AWAPA directors who were named benefited from AWAPPA funds. I personally have a little pin that cost $250, and have seen quite a few more.

The furlough's status was...well furloughed....

1) I'd be in favor of trying to do something/anything for those currently dealing with the horrid situation of being furloughed. Politics and gut responses aside = I feel it's the right thing to do. Obviously; that isn't a majority opinion out east at present though.

2) Agreed. What, if anything, other than to serve up yet more acid and venom, suitable only for west propaganda purposes, was even remotely accomplished there?

3) As are those currently furloughed. We do seem to be able to agree that they have value as people though.....at least this time around.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

Honor is something you do when 3 sides sign a binding arbitration agreement.

Integrity is honoring that agreement and not wasting time and money forming a union whose sole purpose is to get out of that agreement.

We are past honor and integrity, your side lost in court.

You MUST use NIC and you MUST run USAPA in a way that doesn't fail to represent. USAPA painted itself into the corner by not using honor or integrity.

stupidity is something that occurs when you respond to posts like mine

 

[hp_fa]

Freund worked for the America West MEC, Katz worked for the AAA MEC.

Oops, sorry. Change that to Mr. Katz.

 

[ussnark]

Complete nonsense. Please post where it says union meetings cannot be recorded? This union is supposed to be "completely transparent." And that is a direct quote from the usapa Communications czar.

Not nonsense at all. The CLT meeting belongs to the CLT officers and line pilots. Your "leaders" were not of that group, I presume?

I cannot believe I have to reach back to what I learned in kindergarden to say the following. A respectful and decent human would have asked the person running the meeting whether they could video the meeting, before setting anything up. They then would have kept their counsel, yes or no. Disrupting a meeting just because your pet cause did not get addressed seems pretty childish to me.

 

[Acquisition]

PLEASE, do not get rid of Seham, at least not until after the appeals process is completed. Thanks!
And I also would like to thank Cleary and the east domicile reps for their open displays of hostility towards the west (i.e. furlough medical vote, domicile meetings, rancorous statements in updates, etc.) and most importantly the declarations of perrmanent separate ops. Thank you so much!

P.S. The critical statements about Judge Wake and the conduct of the trial, as well as the jurors, were great too! Keep it up, guys!

Don’t forget to have Seham continue to appeal the Nic, never mind the trial was about DFR.

 

[flybynite]

Wow......I've got a couple of things to say here if for no other reason than to make you think.

First....if you want to play....you have to pay. So, belly up boys...pay your dues. I've been a union member longer than some of you have worn long pants. So don't even start with me.

Second....the shenanigans by the West pilot group to film that Union meeting deserved the response it got. It kind of reminded me of some of the stupid #### I tried to pull when I was a teenager. As a result, my Dad corkscrewed into the floor. So don't tell me or anyone else it was nothing more than a play. I know better. Hell, my kids can lie better than that!!!

Third....what is this thing with having a free-for-all forum on the USAPPA website? Are you a bunch of "MySpace" kids? Crap like that is just that....crap. If you want or need to have info...e-mail your LEC rep or better yet, call them on the phone. Wow...what a concept. !! If you feel the need to belly-ache...just come here.

 

[westcoastflyer]

Delta Air Lines just announced a voluntary Pilot Early Retirement Program, according to Reuters News. 9400 of the 12,400 pilots of the new combined Delta are eligible. Delta is offering up to 9 months severance pay and other unspecified benefits. Not a bad deal for some fairly senior guys, and it will probably also eliminate the need to furlough. (A win-win scenario). Too bad US Airways, which seems to despise rather than value its employees, can't come up with something positive like this.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Nic,

Your analysis misses one important fact and that is that the Nicolau Award was not appealable. The only way that it could of been overturned was if there had been some form of gross application of existing ALPA merger policy. East argued that to the ALPA Executive Board and the Award was eventually confirmed after the proceedings at Herndon, the Rice Committee, Wye River and the Blue Ribbon Committee. Frankly, I believe ALPA waited too long to present the Award to the Company, but that is my opinion.

East failed to meaningfully negotiate a seniority list that differed from DOH/LOS. When West did not accept that position both parties agreed to place their dispute to a third-party and accept the results. When Nicolau did not provide DOH/LOS, but rather a blended seniority list, USAPA was born in order to create an avenue to use the majority of East pilots with the form of seniority list they wanted instead of what was contained in the Award. If there were any doubts about this they were erased when Bradford's correspondence to other pilots and attorneys was introduced into evidence at the Addington trial.

The real questions you should be asking should be directed to Jack Stephan. Why did the East MEC not attempt to negotiate anything other than DOH/LOS? Why did they instruct Mr. Freund to continue with that position even at the 11th Hour after Mr. Nicolau asked East and West for revised positions? Was Mr. Stephan so wedded to his position that he feared to actually lead East where it really needed to go instead of worrying about his future electablity?

HP,

As I have previously indicated, the real issue for the courts is not the Nicolau, or even this DFR suit. The real issue needs to be addressed at a higher court than a local district court anyway. The appeal to the 9th (or even Supreme court) is a more fitting venue for the real issue at hand. Do you have any idea what that issue is? I ask because your response to my post indicates to me that you are not seeing the much larger picture at hand.

For cleardirect: I made no promise...I said I'd revisit after the remedy. I felt compelled to share a few thoughts that deserve consideration. That my posts bother you certainly is no concern of mine.

Back on point: the disclosure by Tiger1050 expressing concerns over the west vulnerability going forward being salved by the Nic is a testament to why "snapshots" or "PID"'s shouldn't have a place in union seniority...period. Snapshots are but a moment in time (one that can easily be manipulated by management) via furloughs, or strong profits...or even weak profits..or even losses...depending on what they are trying to achieve. Weak profits, or losses and furloughs are standard procedure going into section 6 talks....conversely, strong numbers mysteriously appear when it's time to look for money on the street.

These wildly fluctuating scenarios are not part of AFA's seniority process, or ANY other national and numerically large employee union in this country....including all the others on this property.

While the union will continue to attempt to secure a contract going forward with a reluctant company, we will have seperate ops as described in the TA...

USAPA will soon be able to present the real issue going forward at the appellate level or higher.

 

[aquagreen73s]

USAPA will soon be able to present the real issue going forward at the appellate level or higher.

If your so-called "real issue" isn't in the trial record, then it's not going to be seen at the appellate level. Judge Wake made several calls as a matter of law that are certainly reviewable, but good luck trying to convince anyone outside of USAPA that a federal judge who was also a nationally eminent appellate attorney botched anything. And even if he did, that by itself doesn't amount to a reversible error.

The verdict will stand, you will be under LOA 93 ad infinitim, and remedies are coming. After that we tee up money damages. USAPA and the East pilots are about to become completely irrelevant.

 

[Phoenix]

If your so-called "real issue" isn't in the trial record, then it's not going to be seen at the appellate level. Judge Wake made several calls as a matter of law that are certainly reviewable, but good luck trying to convince anyone outside of USAPA that a federal judge who was also a nationally eminent appellate attorney botched anything. And even if he did, that by itself doesn't amount to a reversible error.

The verdict will stand, you will be under LOA 93 ad infinitim, and remedies are coming. After that we tee up money damages. USAPA and the East pilots are about to become completely irrelevant.

...but when are you going to Disney Land?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

stupidity is something that occurs when you respond to posts like mine

A complete avoidance of what I said, instead a personal attack.

A sure sign that you have nothing left, you lost, get over it.

 

[flybynite]

How can you get damages without a joint contract?