US Pilots' Labor Thread 5/26 to 6/2-- NO PERSONAL COMMENTS

[RIASU_upe]

....strategy has been delay, delay, delay...

(Standard procedure when you expect to lose)

That sounds strangely familiar <_<

Just kidding around

pue

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Actually, just the 170's since that was all that was on the property or ready to be delivered at that time.

As usual, a little revisionist history is at work. The (East) pilots ratified the agreement that allowed Republic to purchase the 170's. That agreement allowed not just Mesa but "any affiliate" to operate those. Prior to that, only MDA could operate RJ's that large.
When the deal was reached with Republic, the only burning question at the East MEC level was whether the change of control language concerning MDA would be triggered - the subject of a grievance that the company won.

During this entire episode, the only inclusion for the 190's was if the company couldn't take delivery on any ordered, and none were ever actually on order until after the merger was announced and the TA specified that the 190's would be mainline. So the East pilots share blame for allowing the 190's at affiliates (although none were ordered when ratification of that agreement occurred).

Jim

OK Jim, you win..ALPA is held harmless in all this...feel better?

I'd remind you sir, (then I'm over this) that the very LARGE issue of scope incompatibility between AAA and AWA was something that HAD to be addressed in a merger. Even an intellectual giant such as yourself must see this. AWA allowed Mesa to operate about 35 CRJ-900's which seat 86 PAX. AAA had no such scope relief...50 seat limits...it had to be addressed.

You act as though everything that occured at AAA was via pilot ratification at the line pilot level. We all know that was not the case.

(pension giveaway ring any bells?)

 

[Phoenix]

... everything that occured at AAA was via pilot ratification at the line pilot level. We all know that was not the case.

I've had more ballot opportunities from USAPA in one year than I had from ALPO in the last decade (or was it two ).

 

[Megasnoop]

ALPA is and always has been just a toolbox.

The tired old “just the tool box,†ALPAs “Ah shucks, your no better than your own solidarity. ALPA is YOU!†Yeah, right. Are you really buying that? Then they come up with a cop-out cram-down that saves them time and money. ALPAs problems it meddles, has conflicts of interest, controlled by lazy risk-averse useless lawyers, who answer to a geriatric New York law firm that bills out over $5M a year. Weve seen them in action. Good riddance. ALPA on “Probation†if they come back? Only 4 major airlines have gotten rid of them in the past 75 years and 2 of them brought them back. Theyre like adult acne, almost impossible to get rid of. You vote them back in, theyre back to stay.

I agree with NYCBUSDRVR, “Absent a merger, ALPA will not be back on this property for at least 8 to 10 years. Most of the east pilots will have to have retired in order to get enough votes, let alone cards, for ALPA to even stand a chance.â€

Therefore, I see little difference in the next merger between ALPA/ALPA and ALPA/USAPA.

The differences are huge. ALPA/USAPA brings McCaskill/Bond into play, by Federal Law, entire process done in 110 days from single carrier status, unless we agree to drag it out, with the company required to participate. ALPA/ALPA? 18 months from Single carrier to NIC award, then ALPA not even presenting it for another 6 months, then ropa-doping until they were thrown off the property. ALPA/ALPA is guaranteed conflict of interest. Id rather face off with ALPA knowing their the opposition than have them stabbing me behind the back or trying to work a back-door deal.

The Nicolau award is the rock upon which our marriage may founder. We are going to have to find a way to deal with each other if we ever want to get out from under our current contracts.

“Rock, marriage, toolbox.†Able, you sound like a certain west poster on a non-anonymous chat board. You give yourself away. You dont smack ALPA “upside the head†by bringing them back and laying down the law to them. After they get your dues money, they dont care. They think theyre irreplaceable and for the most part, they are. Dont be so naïve. snoop

 

[Phoenix]

... east pilots are paying for avoiding the NIC to the the tune of a 20-30% pay raise...

A 20% pay raise? You are smoking if you think Poug will give up a 20% raise.

What's the rush? With separate ops neither side has gained or lost at the expense to the other.

 

[Elevation]

A 20% pay raise? You are smoking if you think Poug will give up a 20% raise.

What's the rush? With separate ops neither side has gained or lost at the expense to the other.

A east A320 captain would get a 13% raise with parity + the Kirby proposal 3% + work rules 3-5% + 7-9% left on the table= 26-30% raise for the east (only 10-12% for the west). Wake up.

 

[RIASU_upe]

A 20% pay raise? You are smoking if you think Poug will give up a 20% raise.

What's the rush? With separate ops neither side has gained or lost at the expense to the other.

Obviously you missed the court transcripts where they discussed the Kirby proposal and an additional 8-10% as being hidden from the membership?? As it stands now there is at least an average 10-15% difference in salary with the west just at parity levels...you do the math.

No rush here, besides it's totally out of my control, USAPA has a firm grip on the timeline pal. It all comes down to dollars and sense, both of which are lacking in the east. The recent CLT proclamation that "our seniority is not for sale" rings true. The one small footnote missing in the bombastic remark is one that states "note, our seniority is not for sale because we currently have buyers, US!" Like I said, USAPA dues amount to tens of thousands of dollars each year by every single east pilot. That is your mission, so be it.

upe

 

[Megasnoop]

ALPA is and always has been just a toolbox.

The tired old “just the tool box,†ALPAs “Ah shucks, your no better than your own solidarity. ALPA is YOU!†Yeah, right. Are really buying that? Then they come up with a cop-out cram-down that saves them time and money. Only ALPA president signs contract. Negotiating commitee, MEC officers only "witness." Any doubt who has control? ALPAs problems it meddles, has conflicts of interest, lazy risk-averse useless lawyers controlled by aged New York lawyers. The only bar ALPA attorneys can find is the hotel bar. Weve seen them in action. Good riddance. ALPA on “Probation†if they come back? Only 4 major airlines have gotten rid of them in the past 75 years and 2 of them brought them back. Theyre like adult acne, impossible to get rid of. You vote them back in, theyre back to stay.

I agree with NYCBUSDRVR, “Absent a merger, ALPA will not be back on this property for at least 8 to 10 years. Most of the east pilots will have to have retired in order to get enough votes, let alone cards, for ALPA to even stand a chance.â€

Therefore, I see little difference in the next merger between ALPA/ALPA and ALPA/USAPA.

Differences are huge. ALPA/USAPA brings McCaskill/Bond into play. By law the entire process done in 110 days from single carrier declaration to dispute to arbitration award, with the company required to participate. ALPA/ALPA? 18 months from Single carrier determined to NIC award, then ALPA not even presenting it for another 6 months, then ropa-doping until they were thrown off the property. ALPA/ALPA is guaranteed conflict of interest. Id rather face off with ALPA knowing their the opposition than have them stabbing me behind the back.

The Nicolau award is the rock upon which our marriage may founder. We are going to have to find a way to deal with each other if we ever want to get out from under our current contracts.

“Rock, marriage, toolbox.†Able, you sound like a certain west poster on another chat board. You give yourself away. You dont smack ALPA “upside the head†by bringing them back and laying down the law to them. After they get your dues money, they dont care. Dont be so naïve. snoop

 

[ableoneable]

“Rock, marriage, toolbox.â€￾ Able, you sound like a certain west poster on another chat board. You give yourself away. You dont smack ALPA “upside the headâ€￾ by bringing them back and laying down the law to them. After they get your dues money, they dont care. Dont be so naïve. snoop

Merely a coincidence, I have not yet posted on the loop.

ALPAs problems it meddles, has conflicts of interest, lazy risk-averse useless lawyers controlled by aged New York lawyers. The only bar ALPA attorneys can find is the hotel bar. Weve seen them in action.

I would have a very hard time arguing with you on that one.

 

[Phoenix]

A east A320 captain would get a 13% raise with parity + the Kirby proposal 3% + work rules 3-5% + 7-9% left on the table= 26-30% raise for the east (only 10-12% for the west). Wake up.

Wake up?


Did you loose your ALPA FPL? :wub:

 

[RIASU_upe]

You dont smack ALPA “upside the headâ€￾ by bringing them back and laying down the law to them. After they get your dues money, they dont care. Dont be so naïve. snoop

Wholeheartedly agree! The west needs to join USAPA now and make a difference from within. It is the only way we can have a voice in our future. To my east (USAPA holdouts) & west colleagues, the seniority battle is OVER. Now is the time to join USAPA, pay dues, and be ready to influence the direction of our Union. We could have made a difference for our furloughed pilots if every west pilot voted, think about it. With all our west votes, I believe there are enough votes in the east to accomplish what we need to get done.

upe

 

[hp_fa]

The tired old “just the tool box,â€￾ ALPAs “Ah shucks, your no better than your own solidarity. ALPA is YOU!â€￾ Yeah, right. Are you really buying that? Then they come up with a cop-out cram-down that saves them time and money. ALPAs problems it meddles, has conflicts of interest, controlled by lazy risk-averse useless lawyers, who answer to a geriatric New York law firm that bills out over $5M a year. Weve seen them in action. Good riddance. ALPA on “Probationâ€￾ if they come back? Only 4 major airlines have gotten rid of them in the past 75 years and 2 of them brought them back. Theyre like adult acne, almost impossible to get rid of. You vote them back in, theyre back to stay.

Snoop,

Let's do a little math and it doesn't need to be exact, ballpark numbers are just fine for this.

USAPA claims 5,200 members, ALPA claims 54,000 members

ALPA's New York law firm costs about $5,000,000 a year. USAPA's New York (White Plains) law firm is going to cost well over $1,500,000 this year.

 

[N924PS]

Snoop,

Let's do a little math and it doesn't need to be exact, ballpark numbers are just fine for this.

USAPA claims 5,200 members, ALPA claims 54,000 members

ALPA's New York law firm costs about $5,000,000 a year. USAPA's New York (White Plains) law firm is going to cost well over $1,500,000 this year.

That's true. But look how much USAirways pilots have benefited from the money spent on Seham.....

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

ALPAs problems it meddles, has conflicts of interest, lazy risk-averse useless lawyers controlled by aged New York lawyers. The only bar ALPA attorneys can find is the hotel bar. Weve seen them in action. Good riddance.

And we've all seen Seham in action now. He doesn't have any time for the bar because he's to busy filing appeals. Good riddance.

 

[traderjake]

Absent a merger, ALPA will not be back on this property for at least 8 to 10 years.

Who want's ALPA back? The problem is not ALPA or USAPA.

It's the majority of us East pilots who as a group shoot ourselves in the foot every chance we get.

As a group we are not smart enough to act in our own best interest.