US Pilots Labor Discussion-8/12 to 8/19--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[luvthe9]

No need for plan "B". The West legal team has been mopping the floor with your fake union from the word GO. Why? Because the LAW is solidly in the West's corner. There's plenty of cash to keep usapa paralyzed. In fact, I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary....ever. I know your desperation is willing to grasp at anything to make your horrible career, well, "better" but The West running out of cash is not going to be your saviour...You'll just have to keep fabricating new delusional ways out of this mess you created. I have every confidence you'll think of something to hang your hat, (and hopes) on.

BTW, the appeal is already paid for. Do you really see the Supreme Court ever wasting their time to reiterate the fact that final and binding arbitration is exactly what is says?

You must be the most optimistic person ever. I mean if it were me, and I had the same unmatched losing record as you guys do, I'd throw in the towel. Very impressive trait.

Lee must be a hell of a motivational speaker. Perhaps that can be his new career as I'm quite certain, after this MEGA loss, and his well documented lies, deceit, and dereliction of duty, he will find himself UNHIREABLE by anyone.

Oh no I'm so worried, keep on spinning thats all you guys have!!!!!

 

[Richard]

The sniping is getting a little too personal in here---stop it now.

 

[Waketurbulence]

You thought wrong. Phoenix, A320 Captain line holder . Get 4 weeks + vacation weekends off and some pretty choice schedules if you don't mind working noon to 8 with 14 to 16 hr layovers. Catch is you have to like places like SAN SFO etc....

Not to mention 100% Dead Head pay, the ability to drop to 40 hours, swap trips 3 hours before check in, full pay for ANY cancellation, minimum rest rules, duty rigs, trip rigs and occasionally a pretty tasty crew meal for the long haul...

 

[Waketurbulence]

Ah yes, I remember those wonderful layover cities.

Now I have to make do with Rome, Athens, London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Stockholm. But you have to like 25 to 50 hour layovers for those.

It's rough.

Yeh, and you get 12 hours of pay for it...

 

[Waketurbulence]

. The 9th will be looking close....they will smell bias coming out of this case......

They will?

WOW! Thanks for the heads up!

But what if they don't?

 

[luvthe9]

But what if they don't?

Maybe you will be sold off to Republic!!!!

 

[cleardirect]

It is not just evidence but jury instructions as well....the Judge uses the term "bad faith" several times but would not give the "bad faith" instruction to the jury. The 9th will be looking close....they will smell bias coming out of this case.....we shall see.

Judge Wake Findings of Fact and conclusions of law.

Page 33-34.

This will answer your question.

The only thing the ninth will smell is the cow droppings from usapa.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Congratulations!


At what cost?

At what cost? Nothing, really. As I said, we are operating under the contractual agreement we signed and we are getting exactly what we all anticipated.

Cost us nothing so far. If you want to play woulda, coulda, shoulda, go right ahead. Anything you come up with is pure speculation on your part.

Gained? ALPA off the property. (Dues are still the same, so we haven't lost anything there, either.)

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yeh, and you get 12 hours of pay for it...

Been listening to AOL, huh? Are you smoking what they do, too?

Nothing transatlantic pays as little as 12 hours, but just keep drinking that AOL koolaide.

 

[cleardirect]

That's Plan B, Boeing. They don't have one yet. It's all cactus blossoms out there. Also they don't have the money to pay for this appeal, much less the Supreme Court. But the Ninth could rule as "a matter of law," which essentially isn't appealable, except on a writ of certiori. Like how many of those does the USSC issue each decade? AOL's got some real heartburn now. The Ninth could stay the injunction, with instructions. That's like hints to the judge. Or they could just wait until December or later to rule. Meanwhile, the amicus briefs will start piling up. In this case "the enemy of my enemy may be my friend." Don't be surprised to see certain AFL-CIO and other large unions support the USAPA appeal.

And you would know any of this how? Heartburn or money. Other than speculation or hopefulness you have no idea what the condition of AOL is.

It works both ways. The findings of facts are a signal to the ninth.

We are back to looking for friends of usapa. I would guess that list is pretty short. This has been discussed before. The AFL-CIO. Would that be the parent union of ALPA? Do you think that the parent is going to go against the union policy that usapa is trying to get out of? Good luck with that.

What other unions are going to want to put final and binding arbitration at risk?

So “â€￾ifâ€￾â€￾ usapa by some strange thing wins the snap backs. Could the company change the corporate name and weasel out of arbitration? If Seham wins that will happen very often. Count on it.

Newbie makes the assumption Addington isn't reversed on appeal. Good luck on that! But since you are "new," some acquaintance with what we have ahead of us besides appeal. We've got 2 $35M payments and the LOA93/84 pay reinstatement. With the Kirby, both those go away. With $70M and LOA84, a new contract with or without NIC becomes a pay cut and irrelevant.

Kirby pay cut? LOA93/84 pay rates? In the privacy of my farm, it's a no-brainer.

Why would the payments go away? Is usapa so weak that they would give it away in the contract? Anyone with half a brain would bring that provision with them to the next contract. It has been accounted for already. So it would be no cost.

The snap back! The Kirby is a pay raise for you.

 

[luvn737s]

Gained? ALPA off the property. (Dues are still the same, so we haven't lost anything there, either.)

Yippee. How does it feel to be proud of a union that hasn't produced anything positive, but since the dues are the same you feel you're getting a good value?

 

[Poug Darker]

I'm proud of our union because we are rid of the evil overlord Darth Prater and his merry band of overpaid lackeys in Herndon.
I'm proud to pay my dues to an organization made up of only the professionals I work with. My money goes to support my group, not some overweight blowhard politicians that couldn't give a rat's xxx about the average line pilot. Herndon kept 80% of our dues money. For what? A glossy magazine?
Bottom of the barrel legal help? Ineffectual negotiators? Contract 'experts' that wrote language with loopholes big enough to fly 747's through?
All with no say, no vote. Herndon never did anything positive for my career in 20 years. USAPA has been here only 2. I'll let you know in a couple months if they've done anything positive - LOA84 pay/NIC abomination/Excessive RJ's are all coming up. Let's see what happens.
cheers.

 

[spike99]

And you would know any of this how? Heartburn or money. Other than speculation or hopefulness you have no idea what the condition of AOL is.

It works both ways. The findings of facts are a signal to the ninth.

We are back to looking for friends of usapa. I would guess that list is pretty short. This has been discussed before. The AFL-CIO. Would that be the parent union of ALPA? Do you think that the parent is going to go against the union policy that usapa is trying to get out of? Good luck with that.

What other unions are going to want to put final and binding arbitration at risk?

So “â€￾ifâ€￾â€￾ usapa by some strange thing wins the snap backs. Could the company change the corporate name and weasel out of arbitration? If Seham wins that will happen very often. Count on it.



Why would the payments go away? Is usapa so weak that they would give it away in the contract? Anyone with half a brain would bring that provision with them to the next contract. It has been accounted for already. So it would be no cost.

The snap back! The Kirby is a pay raise for you.

Why do you fail to realize, seniority is everything to a pilot? Numerous West advocates only try to ask how much the East pilots have lost in near term finances, not how much they will loose over the remainder of their careers. The bottom of the East list will never voluntarily throw their careers out the window, regardless of the paltry gains.

The West battle cry is "Binding Arbitation", but whose process was that? ALPA is on record as saying their plan from the beginning was to have some of the "Minor" players go out of business to benefit themselves (IE United/Delta/Northwest). How could any process based on the demise of another carrier, be beneficial to the class in general? We all know ALPA allowed the companies to cry 'Force Majeur' after 9/11 and subjugate at least 1/3 of most major mainline jobs to regionals(just curious, how many West jobs were transfered). Dues were dues and we all know that's the only thing they care about. Why have the previous ALPA leaders been able to leave ALPA, and obtain high paying positions at Airbus, Boeing, or their own independent contracting firms (supported by every major carrier), while the standards of this industry have continued to eroded since deregulation? Why is it the only succesful stands against management have come from independent unions? ALPA supporters will say APA was fined and had to pay a large fine, but how much did they actually pay for their job actions? Didn't they achieve their basic goals and have the fines waived as part of the settlement? Didin't SWAPA recently vote down a lucrative contract to protect their scope clause?

Companies can manipulate anything they'd like, but we shouldn't let them manipulate our profession. USAPA is the best hope for the East pilot group to try and bring at least a modicum of hope back to our carreers. You can continue to say we missed the opportunity for an industry leading contract because of USAPA and the East pilots, but can you actually defend that position with any imperical data? Please don't say the Kirby proposal, first of all, it was only a proposal, and wasn't anything near industry leading.

How about the West take a new look, at a DOH list with fences and restrictions, and see how much it really harms anyone. In the last Crew News even Douggie said attitudes would have to chanege before he thought there'd be a CBA from the pilots. How about we be the ones to start and drive the rober barons from the field.

 

[HPDriver]

At what cost? Nothing, really. As I said, we are operating under the contractual agreement we signed and we are getting exactly what we all anticipated.

Yup, you guys accepted LOA93.

You guys accepted losing your pensions.

The "Cactus" call sign now rolls of your lips.

And you'll accept the Nic.

Just a matter of when.

 

[nic4us]

Ah yes, I remember those wonderful layover cities.

Now I have to make do with Rome, Athens, London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Stockholm. But you have to like 25 to 50 hour layovers for those.

It's rough.

Lucky you.

Although I prefer not to have 25 hr layovers because they are often the wrong 25 hrs HDT.

How many of these destinations were added post merger?

Oh, and do not forget soon you get to go to Hawaii also, perhaps a nice diversion from continental Europe. especially in winter.