US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[PullUp]

Thanks for the good luck on the LOA93.

A LOA93 win will give the union much more leverage to conclude a contract quickly.
Although 93/84 payrates are back at industry standard, much still needs to be accomplished in the areas of vacation, sick, reserve, duty rigs, pay caps, retirement, and scope - and that's just the big stuff.

So, thanks to all the west folks for their support - it'll help you too in the not too distant future.
Have a great day.

 

[700UW]

I think you missed the boat 700UW, on a lot of the issues here. By the way, the jets are looking fabulous inside now that the F/A group cleans them. Seems the delays we took all those years waiting were for naught.

By the way FAs dont clean the planes, they only "tidy" them, they dont pull trash, clean trays, bathrooms and stock supplies.

They dont tidy planes that are west coast, international, nor on the last trip or first trip.


Havent seen a FA drive the lav truck and service the planes.

Vendors or the ramp do the cleaning.

Dear Mr. Hayes:

During the course of negotiations for the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement, the Company and the Association agreed to the following with respect to aircraft cabin cleaning:

Upon the Effective Date of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement, Flight Attendants may be required to complete cabin cleaning duties, as defined below, at every domestic station and Nassau (NAS) following every such flight segment, with the exception of the following: transoceanic flight segments, NTI segments other than NAS, and flight segments immediately preceding the scheduled RON of the aircraft or immediately following a scheduled red-eye, or immediately following any segment that originates or terminates in an airport west of Kansas City.

Such cabin cleaning duties shall be defined as, and limited to, the following: collecting papers and refuse in the cabin of the aircraft; crossing seatbelts; stowing pillows and blankets in the overhead compartments; removing visible items from the seatback pockets; and collecting and stowing magazines as applicable. A flight attendant will not be required to perform such cabin cleaning duties after the conclusion of his/her duty day.

The Company and the Association further understand and agree that this Letter of Agreement has the effect of (1) modifying Section 30.F of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement, and (2) eliminating Letter of Agreement #21, dated March 25, 2000, and as modified by the December 3, 2002 letter from Michael J. Minerva to Perry Hayes. This Letter of Agreement does not require any flight attendant to engage in any individual cabin cleaning duty where doing so violates the scope provision then-governing any other non-flight attendant who both is employed by US Airways, Inc. and represented by any other union. Flight Attendants, however, will be required to perform all of the cabin cleaning duties defined above even in instances where the Company has contracted vendor cleaners on duty.


Sincerely,

E. Allen Hemenway

Vice President

Try again!
By the way I was a Stock Clerk when I left US.

Nice try, better go look outside the cockpit door and see what is really going on.

 

[PullUp]

The majority of "other pilots" are apathetic to what is going on over here. Those that do care are envious that their pilot group didn't toss ALPA on its ear.

My significant other was asked by a Northwest (nee Delta) pilot a few weeks after they started integrated flying what the procedure was to get out of ALPa.
He was very disappointed to learn that their best chance to rid themselves of Herndon had passed. But he congratulated my other and agreed that the Prater organization was 'lacking' in most repects and was only interested in the preservation and promigulation of the national organization over the interests of the line pilots they supposedly represent.
Once again, ALPa shafts the dues payers for the 'greater good'...another stunning victory for Herndon, defeating their own membership.
USAPA is worth twice the dues money.
Have a great day.

 

[Captain Underpants]

I am hearing 4 to 6 weeks and we will have the recall numbers. Hope that means recalls by late Aug. Also, I am hearing both sides are understaffed, but have heard nothing about numbers to each side.

Further, just in case you are wondering, it is the companies position that east recalls will be in the order of east furloughs, then third listers, then West furloughs.

Yes it would be great to get all the furloughed back soon. As far as order of recall I don't think we have any original East pilots furloughed only post merger new hires.

My understanding is that the TA will be renegotiated by USAPA to bring back furloughs by date of hire which would be West first. They can come back in order to either East or West open positions and can pass recall until the last furlough is offered recall and then must accept recall or resign from the list.

West recalls accepting East recall will work under LOA 93 and be junior to all original East pilots per the TA unless USAPA negotiates DOH for them. The West furloughs who get East recalls will be the real lottery winners advancing way ahead of their more senior West comrades via East attrition and International growth.

Underpants

 

[Black Swan]

Yes it would be great to get all the furloughed back soon. As far as order of recall I don't think we have any original East pilots furloughed only post merger new hires.

My understanding is that the TA will be renegotiated by USAPA to bring back furloughs by date of hire which would be West first. They can come back in order to either East or West open positions and can pass recall until the last furlough is offered recall and then must accept recall or resign from the list.

West recalls accepting East recall will work under LOA 93 and be junior to all original East pilots per the TA unless USAPA negotiates DOH for them. The West furloughs who get East recalls will be the real lottery winners advancing way ahead of their more senior West comrades via East attrition and International growth.

Underpants

Whatever happens, it will be a good thing to get these people back. Maybe we all will get something good this year.

 

[RSVP767]

Thanks for the heads up, but your treatment of the West pilot group has been obvious from the beginning.

Would you mind explaining to me how it is that you consider my seniority as not really mine, but nothing more than a negotiable postition granted to me by the union and subject to change upon every contract ratification. Yet routes that are clearly the property of the company are yours.

Get over the you just want what you brought falacy. Your behavior since the merger states otherwise. You locked the West out of growth, something you certainly did not bring to the merger. You desperately want out of the worst contract in the industry, something you did bring to the merger. You have been fighting tooth and nail to enhance your seniority at the West expense, did Monda not bring the absolute bottom seniority position with him to the merger?

No one is buying the we only want what we brought charade. Why won't you just be honest and say what you really want. It would go something like this. We want what we brought, we want first dibs on all future benefits that resulted from the merger, we want our position to be treated as more enhanced than that of the West pilots, and we want to strip the West of representational input so that they cannot throw a monkey wrench into what we want.

Hey Nic4,

Once we get back to 595 aircracft (the 435 the East had, and the 160 the West had), then we can talk GROWTH.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Have Prater as your point man. He's the man. He can do it. He is your Patton.

I ATE your seniority - burrrppp!

 

[PullUp]

2. Company not liable when accepting a list that conforms to TA criteria. One such criteria being the use of ALPA merger policy.

Substitute USAPA for ALPA when you read this and maybe you'll understand how this will not be an issue...
Have a great day.

 

[luvn737s]

You have no idea how much the East pilots HATE ALPA.

Yeah, but then again I don't care either.

Who said anything about ALPA coming back? Why not ILGWU or Teamsters (AWAPPA maybe??) or whoever (hopefully a fine combination of them to compete with the illustrious USAPA). The goal is to get rid of USAPA, which can never be fixed. It's worth the risk associated with being non-union for a short time if it means that the Cleary juggernaut is de-railed.

You'd probably have a hard time finding someone who dispises ALPA more than me for myriad reasons. Even so USAPA is far worse. Exponentially so.

 

[luvn737s]

My understanding is that the TA will be renegotiated by USAPA to bring back furloughs by date of hire which would be West first.

The entire east pilot group should be known as the Dream Team. What makes you think that the company would be willing to renegotiate any changes to the TA? Especially with a group that has salts the earth ever chance it gets.

Nope. USAPA will learn. West guys could have told you, but easties don't want to be wakened from a cozy dream. Never have.

 

[snapthis]

The entire east pilot group should be known as the Dream Team. What makes you think that the company would be willing to renegotiate any changes to the TA? Especially with a group that has salts the earth ever chance it gets.

Nope. USAPA will learn. West guys could have told you, but easties don't want to be wakened from a cozy dream. Never have.

They will never figure it out. Their union has sold them a bill of goods. The election of USAPA has assured the fact that Leonidas will be there to counter them to the bitter end. We are not going anywhere. Bottom line, the existance of USAPA guarantees the survival of Leonidas.

Just let them celebrate their hallow victory.

If the 9th wants it ripe, deafeat em when the time is right...

DFRII

 

[Pi brat]

What makes you think that the company would be willing to renegotiate any changes to the TA?

They may not and if they don't I guess the liberal, senile judges from SFO were right, huh?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Take from the 9th whatever you want. You are not getting out of the Nic.

I am quite disgruntled, but not worried. usapa is going to pass a brick when the company tells them to keep their DOH list. What could the company possibly gain by breaking their contract and abetting usapa. If they accept usapa's DOH list there are absolutely no upsides for the company, and a potentially huge downside.

MDA. I heard they missed some filling or something, and that the last word there is ALPA is asking for summary judgement. The furloughed guys are not going to help you renege on the Nic.

LOA 93, I would say get used to it, but then, you all ready are.

What contract would they be breaking. Did Doug sign a double-super-secret agreement to protect the west pilots? There is no "contract" that the company has to honor that would somehow miraculously get you the nic. Why do you continue to make up such stuff?

Well, for the umpteeth time, that is a matter of opinion. You expect the west to accept the total windfall of a DOH list with C&R's. Stalemate once again.

And to clarify, the excuses I'm referring to are the fact that the injunction still stood while we waited to hear about the en banc hearing. That should all be gone soon, removing any obstacle for USAPA following through on their promise/threat so we can all move on to the next step... which will be more litigation.

What stalemate? We don't expect the west to accept DOH at all. But the west doesn't have the votes to stop a DOH contract. There is no stalemate.

The stalemate I refer to is the one that will come after said contract is voted in if it does not contain the nic. The west pilots have made it clear that anything less will compel them to pursue an "unquestionably ripe" DFR suit against USAPA. This will lead to many more months or even years of litigation. And whether or not they can obtain a legal means to prevent such a contract from being implemented while litigation is ongoing remains to be seen.

The other element that remains to be seen is how the company will respond to a contract not containing the the nic award. No one can say with any certainty if the company would become defendants by violating the Transition Agreement.

Again, there is no stalemate. You don't have the votes. Get over it.

An "unquestionably ripe" DFR lawsuit does not mean it has any merit whatsoever. Legal means to prevent the contract from being implemented do indeed remain to be seen. Let's review your track record.

The RLA can say with certainty that the company would not be a defendant in your frivolous lawsuit.

Why did the Delta pilots oppose merging with us but accepted the Northwest pilots?

Maybe because they didn't want to deal with a pilot group that they couldn't just steamroll over?

That's why a new representation vote holds so much promise:
1. Less cost than legal proceedings
2. Equally effective at preventing USAPA from decimating west careers on an ill-conceived juggernaut
3. May ultimately unseat USAPA from their position as CBA
4. Provides sufficient uncertainty in the mind of management for them to justify suspending negotiations

In other words, there's more than one way to skin a tyrannical cat.

Yes, indeed. You go for it. We keep hearing all this big talk of getting rid of USAPA and certifying a new bargaining agent. Well, why don't we see any representational card being distributed? You will have to send them out to the east, because you don't have enough pilots in the west to get an election called.

Where are the cards to fill out? Well? (sound of crickets)

And, as far as the west appeal to the Supreme Court, go for that, too. Bring some very gullible attorneys, or your checkbooks and have at it. Well? What ARE you people waiting for?

 

[Freighterguynow]

The election of USAPA has assured the fact that Leonidas will be there to counter them to the bitter end.

Which occurred July 8th 2010.

 

[A320 Driver]

Enough...