US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvn737s]

Yes, indeed. You go for it. We keep hearing all this big talk of getting rid of USAPA and certifying a new bargaining agent. Well, why don't we see any representational card being distributed? You will have to send them out to the east, because you don't have enough pilots in the west to get an election called.

Where are the cards to fill out? Well? (sound of crickets)

Heh, heh heh. One for the archives!

I'll save some laughter for USAPA's first (and last) stike ballot.

Bob Barker always encourages the spaying or neutering of cats dogs and pretend unions. The ninth took care of that for USAPA.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Only 12 reserve F/O's on the E-190 for August. It's a shame the company waited, yet again. for the wheels to come off before recalling.

 

[luvn737s]

Double-dip recession almost a certainty. I'd be wary about leaving any non-retail job to come back here for a Tempe temp job.

 

[767jetz]

There HAS to be a way. Time for reasonable individuals to step up and find it.
Driver B)

Unfortunately, that's not likely. No one agrees on the definition of "reasonable" around here, particularly those in control of the union.

One side thinks reasonable is the nic list with some adjustments for attrition, and certainly adjustments for pay.

The other side thinks reasonable is DOH with conditions and restrictions.

Like oil and water, neither can coexist with the other. If you find enough people on each side to agree on a definition of reasonable that does not contain the words nic or DOH, you probably would have the makings of a new union. Barring that, this mess will not be settled by a simple vote (as some others joyfully proclaim) but rather by the courts.

 

[Black Swan]

Double-dip recession almost a certainty. I'd be wary about leaving any non-retail job to come back here for a Tempe temp job.

True, and who would come back for an E-190 right seat paycheck, or hire into it?

 

[Black Swan]

Only 12 reserve F/O's on the E-190 for August. It's a shame the company waited, yet again. for the wheels to come off before recalling.

There is going to be massive trouble unless they start not only recalling, but hiring. All positions are getting squeezed.

 

[cleardirect]

"Insanity" is a good way to put it. USAPA, with the help of West pilot input needs to find some middle ground to work from to move this process along. The threats of more DFR lawsuits won't bring back the NIC. However, even USAPA has to know that the 9th ruling was not wholesale license to do anything they want. There HAS to be a way. Time for reasonable individuals to step up and find it.

Driver B)

2006 was the time for reasonableness. But the east failed to be reasonable then. usapa entered the picture and removed any ability to make a deal. Besides the east has proven to be untrustworthy when making deals. How do we know that if we make a deal that any of you will follow through? what did we hear during the trial? That ation only applied to the merger committee not the east pilots. Would we get the same answer?

What input would you like from the west? usapa is the bargaining agent. East pilots are in charge of usapa. where are the "reasonable" offers from usapa? Why is it that the west is expected to fix east problems? The east pilots brought us to this point. What are you going to do to get everyone out?

The Nic is not dead it has not gone anywhere. The DFR is no threat it is very real.

I keep hearing about compromise and middle ground. What has the east offered? It is all about what you want from the west. You guys want us to come off the Nic. What does the east have that the west might want that is not in the Nic?

Who and how do you think any deal can be made? usapa represents the west. The west does not have a merger committee or even anyone on the merger committee. No merger lawyer to advise us.

No this is a problem of the east's making. Yo all went rushing head long without thinking and now find ourselves in a corner. What are you going to do? What is Parker going to do?

If LOA 93 fails what is the next plan? All of you senior guys are going to retire under LOA 93. Thank usapa for that gift.

 

[luvthe9]

The Nic is not dead it has not gone anywhere. The DFR is no threat it is very real.

Absolutely unbelievable, where have you been lately? Does "Baghdad Bob" ring a bell.

 

[Black Swan]

If LOA 93 fails what is the next plan? All of you senior guys are going to retire under LOA 93. Thank usapa for that gift.
[/quote]
We are going to hear on the LOA 93 deal shortly. And if it fails, I don't blame USAPA. It was negotiated under our former ALPA MEC, and the majority of guys panicked. The language used was absolutely poor, and whoever agreed to the language on our side did a horrible job on this part.It is unbelievable that it is coming down to the definition of the word "freeze." Our base, PHL was one of the only ones where the pilots voted it down. I personally voted no. It was too long. I would imagine if it goes bad for us, you are going to see real problems out there if the company does not offer something reasonable and soon.

 

[cleardirect]

Absolutely unbelievable, where have you been lately? Does "Baghdad Bob" ring a bell.

What part do you not believe? The ninth simply said that the DFR is not ripe until we have a ratified contract. They did not even address the thorny issue of arbitration. The ninth did not "kill the nic" they did nothing with it. So it is still alive. It still sits in Parkers desk. The company did say that they accepted the list. The company has not said one way or the other if they will even talk to usapa about anything other than nic.

So talk to usapa have them get us a contract to vote on and we will see what happens. How long before usapa can bring a good contract? It has been two years are they going to need another two years? You guys going to buy your seniority from the company?

Will usapa present a DOH list at the negotiating session? Will usapa wait until 2011 to work on seniority? Will usapa wait until they hear about LOA 93 before working on seniority?

What don't you believe?

 

[FL430]

By the way FAs dont clean the planes, they only "tidy" them, they dont pull trash, clean trays, bathrooms and stock supplies.

They dont tidy planes that are west coast, international, nor on the last trip or first trip.


Havent seen a FA drive the lav truck and service the planes.

Vendors or the ramp do the cleaning.



Try again!
By the way I was a Stock Clerk when I left US.

Nice try, better go look outside the cockpit door and see what is really going on.

700uw:

Go back to school. Even the letter you make reference to has the word "cleaning " mentioned in it several times. Not once does it mention "tidy". Maybe that is why you never advanced beyond the " lav service" or "stock clerk" titles. Next time you make attempt to attack someone make sure you have the appropriate ammunition.

 

[700UW]

The word tidy is what MEC President Hayes and then Xidas put out.

Cleaning an airplane on a through flight involves crossing seat belts, pulling trash from the seat pockets, removing all galley trash, and replacing liners, removing snack boxes, empty lav trash, wipe the lavs down, restock lav supplies, fold pillows and blankets and/or replace, service the lavs and water, remove cockpit trash and clean windows if necessary. Also part of cleaning can be replacing emergency cards, barf bag, magazines and catalogs and cleaning trays, cleaning up barf and changing seat covers.

Also part of the cleaning can be doing a security check.

Dont see any FAs doing anything more than crossing belts and folding pillows and blankets.

Never seen one drive a lav or water truck

That is per US Airways appearance manual.

You make this too easy.

In this Issue of the Boston News-Line

March 10, 2005

Cabin Tidying / AFA Side Letter

Many Flight Attendants are asking about union utility duties versus a sentence in the Side Letter - Aircraft Cabin Cleaning. The sentence is as follows: This Letter of Agreement does not require any flight attendant to engage in any individual cabin cleaning duty where doing so violates the scope provision then-governing any other non-flight attendant who both is employed by US Airways, Inc. and represented by any other union.

AFA has investigated the confusion and the results are as follows.

The IAM utility contract language did not change. All but around 50 of utility employees will be eliminated by MARCH 28th. Ground US Airways Management generated a letter on March 1st, stating to the utility employees that they would not be performing RON aircraft duty. On the same day another letter went out stating that CLT utility would not be performing the cleaning responsibilities due to the AFA contract language and Flight Attendants beginning to tidy commencing on March 1st. AFA discovered that this memo was also sent to all the HUBS/Bases letting the IAM utility know that Flight Attendants would be performing cabin (cleaning) tidying, a duty that was utility's responsibility. US Airways Management had suspended this portion of duty for IAM utility, (with no protest from the IAM). AFA was not advised of these memos.

These discoveries were made after Flight Attendants began advising the MEC that IAM union utility employees were cleaning all but the cabins.

Furthermore, Labor Relations advised that the month of March was a transition stage for the Flight Attendants for tidying duty and that is why Management implemented this responsibility in the beginning of March, even though IAM utility is still on the property. The problem is/was, the Company's failure to advise AFA that even though IAM utility is still on the property this portion of their responsibilities had been suspended by the company.

Moving forward, a Flight Attendant is responsible to tidy the aircraft as addressed in the Policies and Procedures/Flight Attendant Cabin Cleaning and on a scheduled ron a Flight Attendant's duty day ends :15 (minutes) after block in. Any time beyond this :15 (minutes) spent tidying is volunteering. Making the necessary announcement in-flight may assist in completing the tidying process. Please keep in mind that when changing aircrafts, the crew you are replacing may have reached the end of their duty day and may have been unable to tidy or completely tidy the aircraft. Flight Attendants are not responsible to tidy when picking up another aircraft. Example: one day trip/ (4) legs - duty day ends 4th leg :15minutes after block in.

Gloves should be available in crew bases and in the PSK. If the PSK kit does not have any gloves, place a red seal on it and call catering. If a PSK kit is not on the aircraft, call catering. Gloves are available in BOS/In Flight and in the first mail file drawer closest to the shelves where the monthly lines/bids are placed.

*Just a note: BOS-SJU-BOS - example of Non-transoceanic International flight SEGMENTS - Flight Attendants DO NOT TIDY (CLEAN)

FYI - March Trips 04085 / 04110 - FLL-SJU portions that were cancelled and subsequently replaced with a deadhead - this deadhead replaces a "live leg" Flight Attendants are paid/credited 100%, please submit a PE80 claim via the HUB or PE80 paper form

Prompt (6) Trip coverage update recording is advising that the times of these trips have been altered and are subsequently worth less time. A discussion with Rob Fuhr/Director of Crew Scheduling will hopefully result in a correction as this is misinformation. The trips will appear altered in CATCREW as CATCREW treats ALL deadheads as 50% pay no credit, a PE80 claim must be submitted.

If you think you should be paid/credited 100% for a deadhead that replaces a live leg, submit a PE80 claim. Crew Substitution Language is still in place 2000 Flight Attendant Agreement. If a portion of your trip was flown by another crew, submit a PE80 claim.

Please contact the LEC Officers if any claims are denied.

Lynne Caramello
LECP/Council 69

 

[FL430]

What part do you not believe? The ninth simply said that the DFR is not ripe until we have a ratified contract. They did not even address the thorny issue of arbitration. The ninth did not "kill the nic" they did nothing with it. So it is still alive. It still sits in Parkers desk.

The company did say that they accepted the list.

Yes they did. They also accepted a date of hire list. And they were both accepted before the Addington trial. What is your point here?

The company has not said one way or the other if they will even talk to usapa about anything other than nic.

Did you view the last crew news? Doug said he was staying out of the seniority dispute - he said USAPA will be representing the US Airways pilots with respect to the seniority inegration. It will be up to USAPA to present what they think is fair to this pilot group for vote. Just make sure you pay your dues so that you can vote. Be a good union pilot.



So talk to usapa have them get us a contract to vote on and we will see what happens. How long before usapa can bring a good contract? It has been two years are they going to need another two years? You guys going to buy your seniority from the company?

Why the hurry? - most east guys are just fine the way things are, a few sing the contract song but not if it contains NIC. Be happy. We will all move up in good time with the attrition we brought ( built in raise ).

Will usapa present a DOH list at the negotiating session? Will usapa wait until 2011 to work on seniority? Will usapa wait until they hear about LOA 93 before working on seniority?

Who cares?

What don't you believe?

 

[Black Swan]

It would be interesting if the company would go for a LOA, temporary, that would allow an exchange program to take place between the pilot groups on a temporary basis. Perhaps for one month, a few pilots from East and West could fly in another's position , in their respective base. They would fly each others block, at their own pay rates. What do you think?

 

[FL430]

Here is what will happen in the not so distant future:

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby and NIC attached - It will be voted down by a very wide margin.

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 10% pay and Nic attached - Agan voted down by a wide margin.

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 20% pay and Nic attached - Again voted down but by not so wide a margin.

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 30% pay and Nic attached - Again voted down but by not so wide a margin.

Company refuses to offer any more pay or benefit proposals.

USAPA puts out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 30% with DOH and conditions and restrictions to protect both east and west pilots with respect to seniority. If an east pilot transfers west he does so under Nic. If a West pilot transfers east he does so under DOH. (Or maybe even a 10 year East - West fence with no bump, no flush.) This TA is voted in by the majority.

AOL immediately files suit and requests an injunction against USAPA for DFR II. Judge promptly throws out the case because the union tried to represent both sides on a contract. It will not even be put before a jury. A joint contract was unobtainable if it contaned the Nic. That will be the unions defense - they presented the matter before the membership and the members clearly spoke as an almost precedent setting 92% of membership participated in the vote.

Fire away.....