US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/1- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[EastUS]

It is pretty likely that if they find out they were wrong, and the pay restoration takes place, the east can say goodbye to their attrition, fleet etc... and in pretty short order.

Ah!...I see now! There's no hope for ever gaining any pay increase without saying goodbye to atttrition, the fleet, ad nauseum? Ummm...help me out with this then: If additional pay means the loss of all hope/etc..errr..How's anyone ever going to get that magically great contract that'll convince the east to bend over for the nicster?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

NIC, not sure I am with ya attrition? their contract has a min block hour provision if they get it the bowl stays full! MM! And the newby's will be more compensated than well the rest, not good!

 

[nic4us]

NIC, not sure I am with ya attrition? their contract has a min block hour provision if they get it the bowl stays full! MM! And the newby's will be more compensated than well the rest, not good!

The vaunted attrition will not keep pace with the downsizing and there would be no newbies. It is a moot subject anyway, because usapa is not going to get the result they sought from the arbitrator. However, the act of seeking will be more evidence at the damages trial, where the continued DFR violations of usapa are going to catch up to them.

 

[Al Legheny]

US Airways flight makes emergency landing at Rochester airport

Posted at: 03/11/2010 10:51 AM | Updated at: 03/11/2010 8:18 PM
By: Pat McGonigle | WHEC.com

The pilot of a US Airways jet reported a bird strike and an engine problem shortly after takeoff from the Greater Rochester International Airport Thursday, forcing the plane to turn back and make an emergency landing, officials said.

The pilot of Flight 1101 declared an emergency two minutes after leaving Rochester's airport for Charlotte, N.C., airline spokeswoman Tina Swail said. The plane hit several Canada geese at about 2,000 feet and had a problem with one of its two engines, Rochester airport spokeswoman Jennifer Hanrahan said.

The Airbus A319, which was carrying 124 passengers and a crew of five, landed safety at 8:30 a.m. and returned to the terminal.

Passengers said they heard a loud noise followed by the smell of burning.

The plane underwent repairs, the flight was canceled and passengers were shifted to other flights.

In January 2009, a Charlotte-bound US Airways flight struck a flock of Canada geese and lost both engines after taking off from New York's LaGuardia Airport. Pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who retired earlier this month, landed the Airbus A320 safely on the Hudson River. All 150 passengers survived.

Reports of airplanes hitting birds and other wildlife surged last year, including serious accidents such as birds crashing through cockpits and crippling engines in flight, according to an analysis by The Associated Press of new government data.

The last bird strike at Rochester's airport was three years ago, Hanrahan said. No one was hurt.

For more Rochester, N.Y. news go to our website www.whec.com.

 

[HPDriver]

""This particular arbitration will, in my view, be one of the shortest in history and it won't be favorable for the pilot group." - Don M. Hollerbach

 

[EastUS]

If the union is not going to tell you the truth I guess the company will have to.

Is that a recall that I smell?

Let's see now:

It's understood that you've full contempt and mistrust for the union....but...umm...waitta' minute. Let me go back and re-read what you just posted, as I MUST have gotten it wrong....sigh...Nope. I don't think I missed anything here...so....You actually TRUST what "the company" tells you!!???

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's recall you smell...and I'd suggest you use some additional caution so as not to sink into it any further...bad enough just getting it off your shoes.....

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

""This particular arbitration will, in my view, be one of the shortest in history and it won't be favorable for the pilot group." - Don M. Hollerbach

He better watch out or he'll be named in a Federal Racketeering lawsuit. The 'cactus 18, plus Don too.'

 

[Hate2fly]

""This particular arbitration will, in my view, be one of the shortest in history and it won't be favorable for the pilot group." - Don M. Hollerbach

Driver,

The famous CPA Hollerbach................my money is on Attorney Donny B. ALPA's Ex. lead negotiator. Donn is very confident. USAPA put on a very good case. You guys out west are about to be spanked by the 9th. Labor Law will not be changed by some desert judge. Bybee will see it your way but not the other two. Your co-founders are going to have a lot of explaining to do!

Hate CPA,CFI,ATP,DUI,ABC,330,767,757,123,XYZ,AWA

 

[HPDriver]

Driver,

The famous CPA Hollerbach................my money is on Attorney Donny B. ALPA's Ex. lead negotiator. Donn is very confident. USAPA put on a very good case. You guys out west are about to be spanked by the 9th. Labor Law will not be changed by some desert judge. Bybee will see it your way but not the other two. Your co-founders are going to have a lot of explaining to do!

Hate CPA,CFI,ATP,DUI,ABC,330,767,757,123,XYZ,AWA

You're going to lose your money betting on Donny B. Hollerback, Mowery and Brookman all hurt USAPA's attempt to make a case for snapbacks.

The east is about to get smacked with ripeness. Your treachery will not go unpunished.

USAPA's founder threw you under the bus.

HP

 

[Hate2fly]

My, buddy just called me and said the company must be VERY NERVOUS, when was the last time he recieved a 10 page MEMO explaining THEIR side of a GRIEVENCE! MM!

MUTATIS,

They stuffed the mail boxes in the crew lounge.........that is a first! I wonder why they didn't print the entire transcript? Remember what happens if there is a change of control......east contract. Somebody isn't sleeping well.

Hate

 

[nic4us]

He better watch out or he'll be named in a Federal Racketeering lawsuit. The 'cactus 18, plus Don too.'

Just read Heminway's letter.

In it he says usapa published updates and correspondence that blame individually named fellow onion pilots for providing the documents used in the arbitration, and misrepresented how the company obtained those materials.

The letter appears to me to be :

1. a way of trying to manage the expectations out east, i.e. tell them they are going to lose so it is not a complete surprise when they do.

2. be some sort of cover in case hostile work claims start coming in. ( They do not want a trumped up, Cactus 18 style, hassle lawsuit filed against them without knowing they can counter.)

The most interesting thing to me personally was how many times they say cpt XXXX who was the ALPA lec-xxx and now usapa's xxxx, or cpt yyyy who was ALPA's yyyy and is now usapa's yyyyy, disagreed with cpt zzzz who was ALPA's zzzzz and is now usapa's zzzzzz. I thought the east folks cleaned house, but it looks like they kept the same team but changed the name of the union only to get out of the Nic. Man are the east pilots going to pay big in this damages trial.

 

[nic4us]

MUTATIS,

Remember what happens if there is a change of control......

Hate

Let me guess.......you don't get your pension back either.........

 

[Pi brat]

One thing is for sure...................a bunch of people are going to be wrong around here! One way or another! :blink:

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ain't that the truth, Pi.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

He is right as far as he went with it (which was barely scratching the surface) - if US flew...oh, say DL's route network with US' contracts and fleet, US' CASM would be different than that reported. Like always, though, the devil is in the details and the details are all the other differences between carriers other than stage length. Stage length is the easiest factor to correct for - not that it's easy but just the easiest - which is why the analyst' adjust only for it.

US obviously couldn't fly DL's network with US' fleet because 1- US doesn't have enough airplanes, and 2- US doesn't have the right mix of airplanes even if you doubled (or whatever multiple it would take) the number of each type plane. Other factors are the fleet mix as mentioned - a higher percentage of big airplanes generally flying long legs means lower CASM if everything else is equal. Fuel prices aren't equal for all airlines - where it's bought and hedging (either successfully or unsucessfully) play a part. Facilities cost aren't equal across all airports. The efficiency of the operation isn't equal. Productivity, influenced by the operation and contracts, isn't equal. The list goes on and on, and that's before even mentioning the low cost carriers with their operational advantages.

Finally, something that usually doesn't show up (at least for all carriers) is system CASM - the CASM for all branded operations. US has the largest percentage of ASM's flown by express carriers (although once Republic has their Frontier/Republic/Midwest operations sorted out they may take the lead). That means that US has a higher percentage of higher cost Express ASM's than any other carrier. Let's face it - mainline CASM doesn't mean a thing for a GSO-PHL flight on a CRJ or E-170/175.

Of course, Kirby (and the analysts) know all this but it doesn't get mentioned except a few places - the MIT Airline data project and Airline Financials, both of which take the raw BTS and SEC filings data and boil it down to a simple format.

A perfect example of how a valid fact can distort reality is to compare WN and US. Listening to Kirby one would think that all that's needed is to adjust for stage length. However, WN had the shortest stage length in the industry, so that adjustment would increase the difference between US and WN's CASM. It's all those other factors that allow WN to pay what they do and still have the lowest stage length adjusted CASM in the industry. Of course, it one mentioned that to Kirby he's quickly say that you can't compare US to WN since the operational models are so different, thus admitting that there's a lot more to CASM differences than stage length.

Jim

Okay, FG#1 has replied. Anyone else? (Not a slam on you Jim, you have to be the most well read pilot I know, and can't disagree with anything you say)