US Pilot Labor Thread 10/27-11/2

[Phoenix]

....

Two of the three ballot items are for assessments. Are you kidding me?

You so cavalierly dismiss the obvious benefit of the pilot constitutional right to vote.. yes vote.. on an assessment.

Obviously we are all too familiar with assessments that funded the "ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee". I don't remember the vote on that.

When an assessment is voted on.. gasp.. then the reps are actually subject to the will of the electorate.. and an assessment has a whole new and refreshing purpose (actually a restored purpose that knows nothing of fleecing pilots for chateaubriand, champagne, and caviar.)

 

[des nudo]

You so cavalierly dismiss the obvious benefit of the pilot constitutional right to vote.. yes vote.. on an assessment.

Obviously we are all too familiar with assessments that funded the "ALPA Concerned Pilots Committee". I don't remember the vote on that.

When an assessment is voted on.. gasp.. then the reps are actually subject to the will of the electorate.. and an assessment has a whole new and refreshing purpose (actually a restored purpose that knows nothing of fleecing pilots for chateaubriand, champagne, and caviar.)

EXACTLY....goodly said, mate.

 

[des nudo]

I'll say this to you since you are so curious. I had a 1987 hire date when i was there....so that makes me what? the CP at AWA? and yet just 2 years ahead of east furloughs that you think don't count, right?

So i say this: with your mind, Mr. Parker can furlough 500 AWA pilots tomorrow because of the accountants who report yeilds to him daily...and then these 500 AWA go to the very bottom below the new hires at USAir...is this what you suggest is fair in a union shop? Since no common list exists yet, those 500 go to bottom?...

what is your hire date?...could you even drive a car in 1987?

You're most silly little pilot.

I eagerly await your opinion on my stated premise of your skewed perception of a seniority list whereby the company can write you off when convenient, and your union says you don't count and your personal sacrifices and concessions over the years don't count going forward.

* cleareddirect, your failure to answer my easy question answers the questions by default.

shame on you and every one of your friends that feel like you. Maybe i should direct my questions to someone more "senior" at AWA?

 

[Megasnoop]

Snoop
I will concede that the majority of "agitators" have hire dates in the late 90's.

Your senior agitator was hired May 1 1990. The rest are the MacIlvenna-led "its all about me generation."

You are correct LCC decides who to furlough and how much from their respective list, but USAPA asked for that special deal for the 9 west furloughs returning to east, yet did not do anything for pilots SENIOR to them being furloughed.

Heres the problem, nic4. Your pilots refused to join USAPA and pay dues. The "9" were all members in good standing. They were east pilots forced west when they accepted recall. Despite being forced west, their seniority belonged with the east. They had no choice where they were sent on recall. They contacted their Reps. USAPA acted on their behalf. IF your bottom 9 had been members and USAPA had ruled against them, they might have a DFR case. But the west jugernaut of intimidation kept them from joining. So they voluntarily refused to be represented.

Too bad no one explained the facts to your "Captain T-Shirt" before his 10 minute rant at parkers training center meeting. snuper

 

[des nudo]

My roomates have played this video for me...is this t-shirt man the MEC leader out west?

(would explain much)

patiently awaiting your eloquent rebuttal, cleardirect...

 

[nostradamus]

Wednesday's Court Hearing

October 29 2008

Dear former AWA Pilots,

Most of you are aware that hearing was held today regarding the matters of jurisdiction for our DFR against USAPA, as well as our request for preliminary injunction, which both took place before the Honorable Judge Neil Wake in the Arizona district of the federal court.

A decision was not rendered today, as the court recessed after almost six and half hours of testimony and debate. Judge Wake clearly understood the parties' respective arguments and he also demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the case law. Our attorney, Marty Harper, had the opportunity to cross examine USAPA's witness, Randall Mowery. The cross examination elicited from the witness the glaring differences between USAPA's version of what the West's career expectations were at the time of the merger and that of Arbitrator Nicolau. Specifically, Mr. Harper drew from the witness that USAPA's version was arrived at without any West participation and only utilized Date of Hire as the criteria for “fairness.â€￾ Our case is still very much alive, and we expect the to hear from the judge sometime next week regarding most of the matters that were before him today.

The day has been long and tiring to all involved, so please excuse the brevity of tonight's update, but be sure to look for a more thorough update in the next few days.

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

 

[Megasnoop]

Man, you just don't get it.

Cleardirect will never "get it," oldie. Hes a waste of bandwidth.

Yes, I did vote FOR both. A vote. What a novel concept!

I did, too, oldie. A rank and file vote. Something we never got at ALPO, where assessments were strongarmed with carrots and sticks to our elected Reps who were more concerned with ALPO goodies than those they represent.

By the way, where's YOUR list of what ALPA has done for YOU?
Maturity IS NOT one of the West sides' strong suits. Grow up.

Wheres anyones list of what ALPOs done for any of us. Its more like what ALPO to TO us, not for us. snupe.

 

[Megasnoop]

Man, you just don't get it.

Cleardirect will never "get it," oldie. Hes a waste of bandwidth.

Yes, I did vote FOR both. A vote. What a novel concept!

I did, too, oldie. A rank and file vote. Something we never got at ALPO, where assessments were strongarmed with carrots and sticks to our elected Reps who were more concerned with ALPO goodies than those they represent.

By the way, where's YOUR list of what ALPA has done for YOU?
Maturity IS NOT one of the West sides' strong suits. Grow up.

Wheres anyones list of what ALPOs done for any of us. Its more like what ALPO to TO us, not for us. snupe.

 

[des nudo]

Wednesday's Court Hearing

October 29 2008

Dear former AWA Pilots,

Most of you are aware that hearing was held today regarding the matters of jurisdiction for our DFR against USAPA, as well as our request for preliminary injunction, which both took place before the Honorable Judge Neil Wake in the Arizona district of the federal court.

A decision was not rendered today, as the court recessed after almost six and half hours of testimony and debate. Judge Wake clearly understood the parties' respective arguments and he also demonstrated a thorough knowledge of the case law. Our attorney, Marty Harper, had the opportunity to cross examine USAPA's witness, Randall Mowery. The cross examination elicited from the witness the glaring differences between USAPA's version of what the West's career expectations were at the time of the merger and that of Arbitrator Nicolau. Specifically, Mr. Harper drew from the witness that USAPA's version was arrived at without any West participation and only utilized Date of Hire as the criteria for “fairness.â€￾ Our case is still very much alive, and we expect the to hear from the judge sometime next week regarding most of the matters that were before him today.

The day has been long and tiring to all involved, so please excuse the brevity of tonight's update, but be sure to look for a more thorough update in the next few days.

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

well, this explains the lack of response from clearedirect....he's busy speaking with "his union leaders"....which have no bearing on legal matters at all.

this is hard to follow from a distance, but i'm going to try...


.....?
.....?

Oh well, i give up. I ask a question that should be easy answer from Mr. direct...using his newfound union principles. He does not answer, yet he watches silently.

My question stands...maybe you are not old enough in this business to answer...and really, not many AWA guys are.

I understand now.

goodnight.

 

[Elevation]

Easty vs. Easty I love it!




NEW LAWSUIT FRESH OFF THE PRESS FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA CHARLOTTE DIVISION

This is a class action according to the Fed. R. Civ. P. 23 by the Plaintiffs to enjoin the Defendants to place the Plaintiffs in their proper place on the USAirways pilot seniority list. Their proper place will recognize their full seniority rights and privileges. Their proper place is according to their date of hire at the USAirways predecessor airlines of Empire Airlines and Eastern Airlines. Their proper place on the list is directly provided for by the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) Constitution and By Laws, and by oral contracts and commitments made by the promoters and representatives of USAPA prior to, during and after the representational election of USAPA in April 2008 to be the collective bargaining agent for the USAirways pilots.

How much money will USAPA have after all these lawsuits?

 

[des nudo]

Never happen. here's why. Their seniority at USair/USAirways has been codified by several contracts over the years.

It a waste of court time. Nothing else.

Smile all you want. This will go nowhere.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Never happen. here's why. Their seniority at USair/USAirways has been codified by several contracts over the years.

It a waste of court time. Nothing else.

Smile all you want. This will go nowhere.

I agree. And though not an attorney, I would imagine civil matters such as these have a statute of limitations, or procedural deadlines. The Empire buyout took place 21 years ago. We never merged with Eastern. If this is about the Shuttle pilots, they were employed by Trump Shuttle at the time of the merger, not Eastern Airlines. In fact, I believe each Trump Shuttle pilots had been required to resign from Eastern Airlines as a condition of employment at Trump. That will be a tough row to hoe given the fact that the complaint speaks of Eastern Airlines, not the Trump Shuttle.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I agree. And though not an attorney, I would imagine civil matters such as these have a statute of limitations, or procedural deadlines. The Empire buyout took place 21 years ago. We never merged with Eastern. If this is about the Shuttle pilots, they were employed by Trump Shuttle at the time of the merger, not Eastern Airlines. In fact, I believe each Trump Shuttle pilots had been required to resign from Eastern Airlines as a condition of employment at Trump. That will be a tough row to hoe given the fact that the complaint speaks of Eastern Airlines, not the Trump Shuttle.

Wouldn't it be a kicker if the Trump guys actually LOST some seniority in this?

I really think this is a dumb lawsuit, especially since the outcome of the AZ case hasn't even been decided. I think it's just a bunch of lawyers taking money from the plaintiffs.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Never happen. here's why. Their seniority at USair/USAirways has been codified by several contracts over the years.

It a waste of court time. Nothing else.

Smile all you want. This will go nowhere.

Hey des! Catch-up yet? I can't seem to keep pace with USAPA. First it's strict DOH. But then it's "DOH" with a few exceptions (read: Empire/Trump Shuttle). Of course we learned later that USAPA says DOH for the west with "Conditions and Restrictions." Ya know where the east gets all of the growth out east and half of the growth out west. I think USAPA should call it the "Whatever Benefits Me Most" seniority list. Let me know when USAPA nails it down... I'd be interested to see how it has morphed between now and then.

 

[Captsummeroff]

I agree. And though not an attorney, I would imagine civil matters such as these have a statute of limitations, or procedural deadlines. The Empire buyout took place 21 years ago. We never merged with Eastern. If this is about the Shuttle pilots, they were employed by Trump Shuttle at the time of the merger, not Eastern Airlines. In fact, I believe each Trump Shuttle pilots had been required to resign from Eastern Airlines as a condition of employment at Trump. That will be a tough row to hoe given the fact that the complaint speaks of Eastern Airlines, not the Trump Shuttle.

While none of this affects me, I see some BIG problems for USAPA here. They can't be right on bothsides of this issue. I've read USAPA'S constitution and I've read what USAPA'S lawyer has testified to concerning DOH and timelines. HE said, “There’s are no timelineâ€￾ the union, has full control over that matter through the collective bargaining agreement. He’s quoted in the Shuttle/Empire lawsuits. What I find troubling is why would the east pilots who voted in a DOH union, not WANT everyone on their list to be DOH. From the outside it seems self serving. I believe that the Shuttle/Empire lawsuit was also filed in North Carolina, the most anti union state in the country. The entire situation for all of you guys has been a disaster and looking worse day by day. Never happens, happens all the time. Waste of time, time will tell.