US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[aquagreen73s]

All you want is our jobs.

No. The West wants you to keep your attrition. That is, we want you to keep the 800 furloughs you brought to the merger, as that is only fair. After yesterday's hearing I can assure you that moving forward, the NIC will be the list. The company needs a joint contract to get rid of the fleet minimums. If the East resists, then action will be taken and you can bet your life savers no other organization is going to screw with the West class and interfere with the spirit of Judge Wake's injunction against the East-run union. So, count on getting your attrition that you say you want so badly, but it'll be off the bottom.

 

[jetjok1]

Wow, listen to you! Is that a bit of reality creeping into your paradigm?



Nonsense. The only thing he doesn't like is the fact USAPA broke the law. Nothing personal. I also don't think he liked the fact your lawyer couldn't answer a simple question regarding contract ratification. Its not USAPA he doesn't like, its the incompetence.



It'll be a short trip and a big disappointment.



And so was Wake with todays meeting.



That's just it, you DO NOT introduce NEW STUFF at the 9th.




Once again another bit of reality!?!? At least you now understand all you have to look forward to is LOA93.




Nonsense. You guys have your own. Let's quit blaming ALPA for all your problems.





You missed what I posted. I understand there is no bumping once you get your seat. Point is, when a vacancy does open up, a west pilot will take that vacancy and settle in at his Nic position - which will more than likely be higher up. So with all the west pilots sliding in above east pilots, you can expect to stay at that particular bid position for a very long time. You'll stay a captain, but a very junior captain for a long time.

Hey Nic4. are you reading this? kind of goes against what you're saying. Yeah......right!

 

[nic4us]

Yes: it would cost the company money. He won't do it.

717, I do not see how with the no bump flush, the Nic would cost the company money, unless you mean retro to spring 07.

 

[nic4us]

Hey Nic4. are you reading this? kind of goes against what you're saying. Yeah......right!

Read it, but not sure what you mean, or which part you are talking about specifically.

 

[Barrister]

Lets do the math shall we. Guys with 22-25 years here locked out of the widebodies under Nick with a 30-40G pay raise X 10 years =300K-400K over 10 years and Co-stars who will never upgrade at a 50K per year raise x many more years. Yea we'll cave , count on it, no doubt about, count those chickens, need a good realtor in PHL/CLT.

What a deal we'll egt an after tax pay raise of 1K per month, you'll just stay an F/O the rest of your like. Yea where do I sign up for that duty, can't wait.

What you don't get is that 98%of East do not like the pay rates but have adapted and NOTHING (pay) under NIC is going to remotely make up for what gets lost under NIC. Consider also....are ya ready ya didn't think about ths:

A bunch of our over 60 guys in the East are ex-military
lets average out their pay between widebody and narrobody and say:
140K per years plus military retirement pay of 15-20K per year
Now you are at 155-160K per year. Your SS benefits are deferred so you're racking that up....now for the KICKER.....over 60 guys get their PBGC benefits NOW if they want...thrown in anoter 48K or 28 per year depending per year. So. you got guys making 200K per year RIGHT now, still in the saddle. My guess they WILL NOT sell out those behind them. I could be wrong. Pull up a chair. It's going to take awhile.
AND.........if we file CH 11 again what will be in your wallett?, that's right, what we are already used to, minus some.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Wow. We've come a long way from the chest thumping at Herndon and the smug yellow lanyard gang flaunting a voting majority DOH cram down on the West.

I'd say that if recent history evidences anything, it's that the East posters here are ALWAYS quite wrong with their prognostications.

 

[HPDriver]

Wow. We've come a long way from the chest thumping at Herndon and the smug yellow lanyard gang flaunting a voting majority DOH cram down on the West.

I'd say that if recent history evidences anything, it's that the East posters here are ALWAYS quite wrong with their prognostications.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[HPDriver]

QUOTE (Megasnoop @ Jul 16 2009, 11:48 PM)

Slow down, big guy. What “lawâ€￾ did we break?

Sorry "big guy" I guess I got confused when Wake had to point out to USAPA that "rights can be taken away when the law is broken."

But you can check the transcripts to be sure.


Even the company attorney made it very clear that in his opinion, there is clearly no "absolute right" to negotiate separate contracts under section 6.

And regardless of what Kirby says, the company is on record as stating that they are adamant about pursuing a joint contract and only a joint contract.

 

[nycbusdriver]

.... no hope for the appeal, and no chance for snapbacks, your no vote keeps you working under LOA93 indefinitely.

You guys keep saying that like it's a done deal. Just like the Nic was a done deal in May, 2006, but here we are years later and it's still not in effect.

And "no chance for snapbacks"? Have you bribed the arbitrator already, despite the fact that one has not even been assigned? Just because Kirby said "no chance" does not make it so. He doesn't have the final word on ANYTHING, including who gets keys to the executive washroom.

Retirements will start happening sooner than you think. Not to many I know are going to 65. There is to much life to live.

If the senate democrats would act like democrats and get meaningful health care reforms passed, the retirements will take off like a shot from a high powered rifle. Once health care is guaranteed to be available to everyone, the hundreds who are hanging around just for health benefits will be gone in a matter of weeks.

Until the injunction is issued I am not sure what Judge Wake will eventually do in the form of remedies, but he has been mindful of jurisdiction as he considered this case.

Ah, yes. As much as Judge Wake would love to have his way with us, that pesky thing called "the law," and the RLA, in particular, keeps bringing him back to reality.

Big yawn on that. The east will never hold out that long.

We one the east have been so utterly and entirely pissed off at the west pilots over this mess that we will hold out forever just to spite you. We loathe your very existence, and will drag ourselves naked over broken glass and hot coals to keep you from getting anything more than your decades long gutter contracts will allow. Congratulations to you west guys, though. You managed to do something that I never thought possible: galvanize the east pilots into a cohesive group. You did have a bit of help, though. The ALPA weenies at national and our former MEC certainly gave the whole thing a huge boost.

(And, BTW, I'm one of the 517 east pilots unaffected by the Nicolau abomination. So, if you think there are hundreds of senior east captains chomping at the bit to let the Nicolau list stand and get pay raises in return, THINK AGAIN, BUCKO!)

 

[cleardirect]

OK. All of you east guys that are so sure, or shall I say Supremely confident that the ninth circuit is where it’s at. That usapa was unable to get a fair trial in AZ that the court of appeals is going to take your case and save your DOH.

As Cleary said in his message that if they had a choice they would have gone directly to the court of appeals.

Answer me this oh lawyers of the board.

Why did Seham just file another motion for another trial in AZ?

III. RELIEF REQUESTED.
Defendant requests that this Court grant Defendant’s motion, issue an order
setting aside the verdict for Plaintiffs, and order a new trial on all claims, defenses, and issues tried to the Jury in the liability phase of the trial, pursuant to Rule 59(a)(1)(A).

Sixth, overall, the conduct of the Court demonstrated such a lack of impartiality that it unfairly and improperly prejudiced the result of the trial.

And does anyone think that telling the judge that he was in the tank for the plaintiffs will help the judge to “not like usapaâ€￾?

At what point is enough, enough? At what point do you east guys finally tell Seham the check book is closed? If the court of appeals is the place to be tell Seham to stop wasting everyone’s money and wait for the injunction.

Please explain if this is going to the appeals court, other when padding his bill why ask for another trial in AZ?

 

[aquagreen73s]

This is actually usual for a losing party to file for a new trial. That, and another is a motion for the judge to set aside the verdict.

They almost never (like 0.000001 % of the time) get granted.

 

[HPDriver]

...and will drag ourselves naked over broken glass and hot coals...

Bucko,

You do whatever turns you on.

 

[hp_fa]

Agreed. Procedurally normal. However, as Cleardirect showed with his quote of Item 6, insulting the judge to whom you seek a new trial from is not normally considered too bright.

 

[HPDriver]

You guys keep saying that like it's a done deal. Just like the Nic was a done deal in May, 2006, but here we are years later and it's still not in effect.

True, but it is the list. It'll be used by your NAC in negotiations and it'll be used should we merge with anyone.

And you've paid a high price via your paycheck and LOA93 by not negotiating a new CBA and implementing the list .

I'm sure the company thanks you guys for your generosity.

 

[cleardirect]

Look the day our legal team showed up in the Judges courtroom we knew what the final result would be! It has been a hostile environment from the very first meeting with the Judge. He doesn't like us and we don't like him. So on to the 9th we go.

Amazing, this post is classic victim mentality. All you have to do is substitute some victim group and you have the east pilots.
I did not get that job because that guy did not like me. I did not get the raise because my boss hates XXXX. I got a ticket because the cops hates XXXX. I was denied the jumpseat because the captain is a XXXX.

Could it be that maybe you guys want to blame everyone but yourselves in this little drama? Could it be that the rest of the world is not wrong that possibly it could be that you guys are the problem?

Let’s run down the list.

You lost a DFR because the judge did not like you.
Nicolau ruled against you because he did not like you.
ALPA did not treat you right because the did not like you.
You lost your pension because the bankruptcy judge did not like you.
Someone on here said the we ended up with Nicolau because the other arbitrators did not like you.
Usapa is unable to get a good contract because the company does not like them.

Seems to me that you as a group are very unlikable people. Why is that? Why do think that so many people don’t like the east pilots?

The first question you should ask yourself WHY the judge did not like you? Why was it hostile to you on the first day? What did the judge have to go on that made him hostile on the first day? What makes you think that the ninth circuit is going to “likeâ€￾ you?

Why did the judge in NC dismiss the RICO charges with prejudice? Did he not like you also? Why not, that was your backyard.

Judges don’t have to like or dislike people they only have to rule on the law.