US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Dont call me Shirley]

I don't normally keep with the 40 or weekly pages on this topic. Not because I don't care, but I'm afraid I find the posts rather repetitive.

I know how much the seniority issue matters to the pilots. It determines what a/c you fly, and hence your pay. What are the thoughts in pilot group about paying strictly on the basis of seniority, regardless of a/c type?

Some European carriers do this. A friend who works for SK said that it enables some senior pilots, who are tired of crossing 12 time zones and being aways from home for days, to go back to the MD-80 and fly the CPH-ARN shuttle. Two turn arounds and they are home every day. It also lets more junior crews fly the heavier metal.

As I said, this is just a thought. No flames, please!

 

[cleardirect]

Let your mind run wild.. it was every conspiracy you can imagine and ten more that you can't.

So I guess you have no answer then. Where is that video?

Maybe letting usapa leadership run around unchecked. Spending your money without supervision is OK with you but not me. That my be the difference between the east and west. We pay attention to what our leadership is doing.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I don't normally keep with the 40 or weekly pages on this topic. Not because I don't care, but I'm afraid I find the posts rather repetitive.

I know how much the seniority issue matters to the pilots. It determines what a/c you fly, and hence your pay. What are the thoughts in pilot group about paying strictly on the basis of seniority, regardless of a/c type?

Some European carriers do this. A friend who works for SK said that it enables some senior pilots, who are tired of crossing 12 time zones and being aways from home for days, to go back to the MD-80 and fly the CPH-ARN shuttle. Two turn arounds and they are home every day. It also lets more junior crews fly the heavier metal.

As I said, this is just a thought. No flames, please!

It's a great idea. Several of us have made that suggestion, and it would negate a lot of the impact of the Nicolau list.

For a U.S. carriers' pilots that would be thinking outside of the box. It can't be done because we've always done it the other way. (And look where that's gotten us!)

 

[Elevation]

It's a great idea. Several of us have made that suggestion, and it would negate a lot of the impact of the Nicolau list.

For a U.S. carriers' pilots that would be thinking outside of the box. It can't be done because we've always done it the other way. (And look where that's gotten us!)

Two pay scales one for CA's and one for FO's. UPS does it and so does that airline AWA.

 

[cleardirect]

I don't normally keep with the 40 or weekly pages on this topic. Not because I don't care, but I'm afraid I find the posts rather repetitive.

I know how much the seniority issue matters to the pilots. It determines what a/c you fly, and hence your pay. What are the thoughts in pilot group about paying strictly on the basis of seniority, regardless of a/c type?

Some European carriers do this. A friend who works for SK said that it enables some senior pilots, who are tired of crossing 12 time zones and being aways from home for days, to go back to the MD-80 and fly the CPH-ARN shuttle. Two turn arounds and they are home every day. It also lets more junior crews fly the heavier metal.

As I said, this is just a thought. No flames, please!

Yep single pay scale for aircraft. We have that in our contract now. Everyone bids what they want instead of chasing training bases and aircraft.

I agree. But when we when to the east to talk about a joint contract can you guess what the reaction was?

I think it was said here. We have always done it that way and we will continue to do it that way. It was good enough for my daddy so it must be good enough for me. You young pups just don't understand. Or something like that.

 

[luvn737s]

Generally, the argument for higher pay for larger equipment is productivity. A pilot flying a larger aircraft can (sometimes) generate more revenue per hour than one flying a smaller plane, and should be compensated for it.

I don't think anyone longs to fly big airplanes as an end unto itself, but as a means of earning more.

If commonality of aircraft type (i.e. Airbus) continues to the point where a pilot could be qualified on both wide and narrow body equipment, and a contract was structured to allow it, and if PBS could build it, it is conceivable that a pilot could fly a variety of types of flying in a given month at a variety of rates with the assignments based solely on what his seniority could buy him.

 

[john john]

If commonality of aircraft type (i.e. Airbus) continues to the point where a pilot could be qualified on both wide and narrow body equipment, and a contract was structured to allow it, and if PBS could build it, it is conceivable that a pilot could fly a variety of types of flying in a given month at a variety of rates with the assignments based solely on what his seniority could buy him.

Any change that effects seniority and pay is up to the judge in Arizona.
All things nic can not be bargain negotiated or change
According to the west pilots on this board. nic shuts the door on all bargaining negotiating in regards to seniority and pay. You guys are dead in the water. The judge in Arizona is involving himself with the process of the RLA. Since the beginning of the airline industry the unions have falling under the RLA. As old and out dated as it seems its all unions and management have. It’s been tweak and change over time And the judge in Arizona is try to do the same

 

[captainJack]

Well I guess that your father in law could have refused the ride. As it was too extravagant and a waste of union money.

Why accept the ride? Tell Duffy to sell it and take a cab.

A limo was provided to certain ALPA execs, since before Duffy. If you had a more worldly experience, you would know it is cheaper and easier to transport people around the DC (or most any metro) area in a limo than either renting, leasing or buying a vehicle or paying for a cab.

I would think that, with car dealers crying for business, a pretty good deal could be struck with a purchase or two vs using cabs, especially in CLT. Try taking a cab there, sometime, and if you do, bring lots of money.

I would trust that CPAs noted the difference in buying vs leasing. It seems to me also that a Taurus is a good decision, a basic four-door auto from a non-bankrupt manufacturer.

 

[captainJack]

At the next crew news. Ask Doug why we ordered A350 instead of 787's.

He will tell you because we had a great price from AB. We have the original price. They gave us that price even after they raised it. About a 30% discount if I remember.

What we really wanted was 787 and 321, 320, 319 but AB gave us a smoking deal on A350. To be all AB. We could have gotten favored nation Boeing prices but the old 350 price beat the total.

Ask him yourself when they were ordered. And by who.

With a $300 million note several times over-due, finally due in days at the time of the merger announcement? Yeah. Right.

I dashed off a note to several Airbus friends who will pass what you say past the head of marketing. I'll let you know what they come back with. B)

 

[nycbusdriver]

Two pay scales one for CA's and one for FO's. UPS does it and so does that airline AWA.

That's a totally different concept from longevity-based pay. That is seat-based pay, and while it is workable, it certainly would not be helpful in our particular situation where east pilots who would have seen the left seat are locked out by Nicolau.

We are using English here, right?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Any change that effect seniority and pay is up the judge in Arizona

B*** S***

Even assuming the Nicolau list survives the 9th Circuit, the "judge in Arizona" has no say whatsoever in how we are compensated. If the NAC and company decided on a longevity-based pay scheme (unlikely,) the "judge in Arizona" has no control over that. His injunction is a testament to treading lightly around the RLA. He might actually get away with dictating one section of our contract, but he knows enough not to interfere in areas where there is no complaint.

 

[dgriffit]

This line of thinking, that a furloughed pilot brings nothing to the merger, is repeated so often and never challenged, I challenge it. What did you bring to the merger? Widebody flying? no, yet you will get widebody flying. Its not a matter of no more no less, i wish it were because the west would stay west and east would stay east. As it is with nic, you will gain alot of furlough protection at my expense because the west flying which you brought will draw down and I will be furloughed so a west pilot can have my job on the east. You brought expectations to the merger, so did I. Alot of guys took pay cuts to keep this company alive, well so did I, mine was 100%. You say you wanted what was fair and what was agreed to? Well we dont think the binding arbitration results were fair or more importantly, we don't think they conformed to policies that defined their creation. We are being told otherwise, but we have not exhausted all avenues to right what we perceive as wrong. Im not asking you to agree, just stop challenging our right to seek a remedy. You guys think your jobs are more valuable than our jobs? We were going to liquidate, i know, i know. Well guess what, we didn't liquidate and it has nothing to do with anything you did. If someone saw value in saving the east, that perceived value is not yours to parlay into career advancement over my furloughed body. Neither Airliine would exist today if not for the merger, so in a sense, the job you brought to the merger is about as worthless as the job I brought to the merger, in terms of realistic career expectaions.
I don't advocate DOH, maybe works in some cases but not here, but if DOH had prevailed, I certainly think you guys would challenge that as a windfall not conforming to merger policy and fight it to the end because I don't think you guys are much different than us. I don't begrudge your position fighting for NIC implementation, I'd do the same, but please, to deny it as a huge windfall and triumph over the east is disingenuous. You guys could back off, Wake says so, but you won't (nor would I) But I wouldn't pretend it was a just or righteous position. It is what it is. Yor greed is beating our greed (for now) Fly safe.

Bravo, I couldnt agree more. Being furloughed... making the ultimate sacrifice so the rest of you all can have your jobs, and how do we get treated... "staple to the bottom of the list... your lucky to have a job". Well sorry, thats just wrong. I dont need it all, but some gratitude and acknowledgment, and little of my seniority would be nice and appropriate.
Brian

 

[john john]

B*** S***
but he knows enough not to interfere in areas where there is no complaint.

Seniority transitions into a lot of other articles
The west will always hold nic and the judge in Arizona dear to there heart
And use it as a threat for future dispute. Will just have to see what the judge says about that. Haven’t said that. I hope the Arizona judge knows better

 

[N924PS]

Any change that effect seniority and pay is up the judge in Arizona
All things nic can not be bargain negotiated or change
According to the legalize on this board nic shuts the door on all bargaining negotiating in regards to seniority and pay. You guys are dead in the water. Since beginning or sometime near about the union airline industry has falling under the RLA as old and out dated as it seems it’s all unions and management have. It’s been tweak and change over time And the judge in Arizona is try to do the same

That was unintelligible...Say again please.

 

[john john]

That was unintelligible...Say again please.

Sorry you can not understand
I’ll try again


Any change that effects seniority and pay is up to the judge in Arizona.
All things nic can not be bargain negotiated or change
According to the west pilots on this board. nic shuts the door on all bargaining negotiating in regards to seniority and pay. You guys are dead in the water. The judge in Arizona is involving himself with the process of the RLA. Since the beginning of the airline industry the unions have falling under the RLA. As old and out dated as it seems its all unions and management have. It’s been tweak and change over time And the judge in Arizona is try to do the same