US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[nycbusdriver]

Parity +1 was concessionary. United got a big raise and we rode that to our own raises. No one, the pilot group or Wolfe knew it was going to happen. It didn't last long.

You're right. It certainly didn't last long. It only took Wolf a few stern looks to have ALPA cowering in the corner giving it all back, and then some. Sure, the company was in financial trouble post-9/11, but Wolf sold that bill of goods to ALPA on the basis that it would stave off bankruptcy. Of course, that was a lie and ALPA took the bait anyway.

Then, when Wolf made it clear he was going to declare bankruptcy anyway, the ALPA mantra was to get that "critically important 1113" letter to keep the bankruptcy judge from raking us over the coals in court. So ALPA gave even more back (while the other unions decided to take their chances in court and got better deals.)

Yes, ALPA oversaw the arguably the best contract we've ever seen, but it was a fluke that ALPA didn't even expect to be so good. And, in typically ALPA style, they gave it all away inside 18 months. And, incredibly, they have the gonads to brag about it.

 

[Ogee]

Shucks:

Thanks for the reply. I agree some parts of this merger stink. Considering the other possibilities it's still better than no company to work for no matter what name is on the marquee. There is a huge difference between bringing a job to a merger or being furloughed, as harsh as that may sound. I'm truly sorry for your situation.

Whether or not I will be able to hold widebody flying at some point in the future is moot. Who can predict what equipment might be in a future fleet, should the corporation even survive? AWA had an order for many airframes, about 120, to be announced right around 9/11. I think we were going to be the launch customer for the A-350 but don't hold me to that please. Sadly a wrongly motivated and seriously depraved group wreaked havoc on innocent people that day. Our expectations changed too, just like yours.

I fully expect USAPA loyalists to try to defend their actions. Lots of people got duped, maybe you too. People like Jim Jones will be with us to the end. They drag good people down the road of destruction. That's why it seems we are causing harm to you. If I were a member of the union, I would certainly support efforts to bolster your plight. I'd much rather send in an assessment to cover your bills than fight a lawsuit. I'm thinking of an extension to recall rights if the company were to flourish at least you might be able to return.

Then again USAPA isn't a union at all. I doubt it could negotiate something productive such as that. It was designed for one purpose only. That intent was criminal in perspective of the jury and the court not to mention us. To be sure you need look no further that USAPA's actions. Any objective and reasonable mind would view USAPA in the same light. There is little hope that they would intuitively do the right thing. Something will have to force USAPA to change. To say otherwise is agreeing with the foolish, darkened perspective that they did nothing wrong.

Many may join USAPA to throw out those that caused this mess. The wicked may thrive for a time but we will see their downfall. I am convinced of that. I think keeping USAPA may be better than bringing in a new union. There will need to be changes made to the cb&l's to right the wrongs of it's current structure. The thought of joining now is beyond repulsive to me. I trust that at some point I too will get beyond the raw emotion of this injustice take up my responsibility and join for the good of all. We need to all focus on the good of what we can do together. A house divided will fall.

I look forward to the time we might fly together.

Take care,

Ogee

 

[HPDriver]

You're right. It certainly didn't last long. It only took Wolf a few stern looks to have ALPA cowering in the corner giving it all back, and then some. Sure, the company was in financial trouble post-9/11, but Wolf sold that bill of goods to ALPA on the basis that it would stave off bankruptcy. Of course, that was a lie and ALPA took the bait anyway.

Then, when Wolf made it clear he was going to declare bankruptcy anyway, the ALPA mantra was to get that "critically important 1113" letter to keep the bankruptcy judge from raking us over the coals in court. So ALPA gave even more back (while the other unions decided to take their chances in court and got better deals.)

Yes, ALPA oversaw the arguably the best contract we've ever seen, but it was a fluke that ALPA didn't even expect to be so good. And, in typically ALPA style, they gave it all away inside 18 months. And, incredibly, they have the gonads to brag about it.

You do understand that by "ALPA" you mean the east MEC, right?

 

[N924PS]

You do understand that by "ALPA" you mean the east MEC, right?

Regrettably, in the minds of most East pilots there is no distinction.

USAPA was able to capitalize on that during its campaign to replace ALPA.

 

[A320 Driver]

You do understand that by "ALPA" you mean the east MEC, right?

Multiple East MECs...along with the advisors, lawyers and minions from ALPA national.

One big happy family. We even found out that instead of returning our dues money that was not used, they were handing it out to the administrative staff at headquarters in the form of bonuses. Meanwhile, we took CUTS.

Talk about out of touch!

Driver <_<

 

[Phoenix]

... Im not asking you to agree, just stop challenging our right to seek a remedy. ...

Who can argue with that?

 

[exB717Flyer]

This line of thinking, that a furloughed pilot brings nothing to the merger, is repeated so often and never challenged, I challenge it.

The East MEC challenged it in front of the arbitrator.

 

[ClueByFour]

Who can argue with that?

Someone who enjoys keeping their dues money, rather than pissing it out the window.

 

[john john]

but Wolf sold that bill of goods to ALPA on the basis that it would stave off bankruptcy.

Don’t forget wolfs promise of the largest airbus order in history

 

[Freighterguynow]

I think we were going to be the launch customer for the A-350

On 4 January 2007, Airbus announced that Pegasus Aviation Finance Company had placed the first firm order for the A350 XWB with an order for two aircraft,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350

 

[ableoneable]

On an unrelated note, USAPA President Mike Cleary informed the BPR yesterday that the officers would be purchasing two 2009 Ford Taurus cars in Charlotte for officer use.

So, now USAPA is buying cars?

Congratulations - USAPA has managed to make ALPA look thrifty and responsible.

 

[hp_fa]

So, now USAPA is buying cars?

Congratulations - USAPA has managed to make ALPA look thrifty and responsible.

Can't they find used cars? Of course that presupposes that USAPA should be paying for their transportation in the first place. These folks ran for office on the premise of leading a less expensive union for the dues payers. Now they have the union buying cars. That means auto insurance too.

What ever happened to that new trend of work-from-home? How many meetings do they actually need to show their face that justify needing to buy cars? How many cab rides would two cars pay for?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions to address this stupid premise.

 

[luvn737s]

Nero had a fiddle - Cleary has a Taurus!

 

[luvn737s]

This line of thinking, that a furloughed pilot brings nothing to the merger, is repeated so often and never challenged, I challenge it. What did you bring to the merger? Widebody flying? no, yet you will get widebody flying. Its not a matter of no more no less, i wish it were because the west would stay west and east would stay east. As it is with nic, you will gain alot of furlough protection at my expense because the west flying which you brought will draw down and I will be furloughed so a west pilot can have my job on the east. You brought expectations to the merger, so did I. Alot of guys took pay cuts to keep this company alive, well so did I, mine was 100%. You say you wanted what was fair and what was agreed to? Well we dont think the binding arbitration results were fair or more importantly, we don't think they conformed to policies that defined their creation. We are being told otherwise, but we have not exhausted all avenues to right what we perceive as wrong. Im not asking you to agree, just stop challenging our right to seek a remedy.

The crux of the matter is that the pilots the the top, the middle and the bottom of their respective pilot lists should have the "buying power" of their seniority retained. Nicolau saw the need to protect the 517 pilots who were or could have flown widebodies, because the top AWA pilots couldn't "buy" a widebody captain position before the merger and shouldn't be immediately able to after. Likewise, the most junior AWA pilot should not have been displaced by a furloughed US pilot, but should be placed close to the most junior active US pilot. The pilots on the bottom of the US list were on furlough. This "buying power" came from their seniority, not necessarily how long they worked there.

Wishing that the two sides could remain separate forever is unrealistic. Both sides were thrown into something not of their choosing and those who invest and run the airline have decided that they want an integrated labor force.

As for appeal, remember that the fairness of the Nicolau award will not be what's appealed. I will be the conduct of the trial on whether or not USAPA was failing to to represent the west pilots by not abiding by the inherited Nicolau award and making the DOH agenda the cornerstone of their union.

Seeking a remedy and pursuing the RICO and Cactus 18 suits and spreading inflamatory rhetoric only serves to drive both sides further apart. The pilots of US should be tired of a small group of influential pilots continuing this civil war. East pilots cannot afford to be apathetic to the destruction of USAPA's leadership. Salting the earth is not a bedrock union principal.

East pilots need to immediately call for Cleary's resignation as well as the entire east BPR. I am sure that there are enough level-heaed pilots out there who do not want to satisfy a personal vendetta against the west, that they can put up a leader who will unify ALL the US pilots.

 

[Phoenix]

So, now USAPA is buying cars?

Congratulations - USAPA has managed to make ALPA look thrifty and responsible.

It looks like you have never seen the parking lot at Herndon. I have never seen so many BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc.

Even the secretary's bellhop could afford his own Vette, as a second car.