US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 7/14-7/21 NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[A320 Driver]

The crux of the matter is that the pilots the the top, the middle and the bottom of their respective pilot lists should have the "buying power" of their seniority retained. Nicolau saw the need to protect the 517 pilots who were or could have flown widebodies, because the top AWA pilots couldn't "buy" a widebody captain position before the merger and shouldn't be immediately able to after. Likewise, the most junior AWA pilot should not have been displaced by a furloughed US pilot, but should be placed close to the most junior active US pilot. The pilots on the bottom of the US list were on furlough. This "buying power" came from their seniority, not necessarily how long they worked there.

Wishing that the two sides could remain separate forever is unrealistic. Both sides were thrown into something not of their choosing and those who invest and run the airline have decided that they want an integrated labor force.

As for appeal, remember that the fairness of the Nicolau award will not be what's appealed. I will be the conduct of the trial on whether or not USAPA was failing to to represent the west pilots by not abiding by the inherited Nicolau award and making the DOH agenda the cornerstone of their union.

Seeking a remedy and pursuing the RICO and Cactus 18 suits and spreading inflamatory rhetoric only serves to drive both sides further apart. The pilots of US should be tired of a small group of influential pilots continuing this civil war. East pilots cannot afford to be apathetic to the destruction of USAPA's leadership. Salting the earth is not a bedrock union principal.

East pilots need to immediately call for Cleary's resignation as well as the entire east BPR. I am sure that there are enough level-heaed pilots out there who do not want to satisfy a personal vendetta against the west, that they can put up a leader who will unify ALL the US pilots.

Is THAT what you think? That this is a personal vendetta? I don't think so.

You wouldn't fight so hard FOR a mediocre seniority award. East wouldn't fight so hard AGAINST a mediocre seniority award. Prater defined the NIC as "problematic", and then told us to take it like a man. It is an insult, plain and simple. Just like straight DOH would have been for West. There were two worst case scenarios and we are seeing the one for the East.

Driver B)

 

[ableoneable]

It looks like you have never seen the parking lot at Herndon. I have never seen so many BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc.

Even the secretary's bellhop could afford his own Vette, as a second car.

Nice try. The same tired story.

However, I have never heard of an ALPA MEC purchasing new cars for the use of their officers. I though USAPA was supposed to be "different". They claim that they are an "electronic" union and cheap and efficient and then they buy the officers cars?

Are they going to need a Baron or a Mustang to enable their officers to move "efficiently" about the various domiciles?

 

[luvn737s]

There were two worst case scenarios and we are seeing the one for the East.

Driver B)

No, the worst case scenario for either side would have been a staple. USAPA's plan would have practically been that for the west. Nicolau is no where near that for the east.

 

[Elevation]

Where is this memo about buying cars? I have to read it with my own eyes. 190 FO's are in financial ruins according to USAPA, and now they are buying new cars? This cannot be.

 

[Pilot692]

Nice try. The same tired story.

However, I have never heard of an ALPA MEC purchasing new cars for the use of their officers. I though USAPA was supposed to be "different". They claim that they are an "electronic" union and cheap and efficient and then they buy the officers cars?

Are they going to need a Baron or a Mustang to enable their officers to move "efficiently" about the various domiciles?

ALPA had a stetch Cadillac limo, during the Duffy days. He picked up my father-in-law in it.

 

[cleardirect]

ALPA had a stetch Cadillac limo, during the Duffy days. He picked up my father-in-law in it.

Well I guess that your father in law could have refused the ride. As it was too extravagant and a waste of union money.

Why accept the ride? Tell Duffy to sell it and take a cab.

 

[A320 Driver]

No, the worst case scenario for either side would have been a staple. USAPA's plan would have practically been that for the west. Nicolau is no where near that for the east.

OK, I was wrong. You ever been wrong? Is it a crime?

I've been wrong lots. It stops bothering you after a while.

Is Dr Phil taking new patients?


Driver :blink:

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Is THAT what you think? That this is a personal vendetta? I don't think so.

You wouldn't fight so hard FOR a mediocre seniority award. East wouldn't fight so hard AGAINST a mediocre seniority award. Prater defined the NIC as "problematic", and then told us to take it like a man. It is an insult, plain and simple. Just like straight DOH would have been for West. There were two worst case scenarios and we are seeing the one for the East.

Driver B)

We are not fighting FOR anything, so much as we are fighting AGAINST the date of hire you are trying to shove down our throats. You thought your greater numbers would do it for you. And don't try to fool us with those conditions and restrictions, you must think we just fell off the turnip truck.

 

[Phoenix]

Where is this memo about buying cars? I have to read it with my own eyes. 190 FO's are in financial ruins according to USAPA, and now they are buying new cars? This cannot be.

The cars are for the officers who ARE 190 FOs.

I have every confidence the two FORD Taurus cars cost less than one or two ALPA mailings from the beloved ALPA desperation committee back before the election. Or just take a look at the FedEx scary movie warning pilots about loosing ALPA. The ALPA Hail Mary.

You are so right, USAPA said they would be different... who knew they meant they wouldn't make videos for YouTube.. no more old goat videos, or real goats.

 

[cleardirect]

You are so right, USAPA said they would be different... who knew they meant they wouldn't make videos for YouTube.. no more old goat videos, or real goats.

Thanks for bringing that up. Speaking of videos. The CLT rep did say that he would.

Today is July 21, 2009. I you will recall there was a disagreement at the MAY 21 CLT meeting. This disagreement involved a BPR member wanting to video tape the meeting and more specifically Lee Seham’s briefing for his domicile pilots. Since they were unable to come he wanted to give the pilots a chance to hear the information. At that meeting the CLT chairman denied the other BPR member the right to video tape. Using the excuse that HE was going to video that meeting and put it out.

Well folks it is now 2 months past that meeting. I have yet to see a single second of that video. Where oh where could it be? They only filmed 1 hour of that meeting. How hard is it to load that tape onto you tube? How long could it possibly take to edit one hour of tape? Two months? How about putting it up unedited?

What could have been said at that meeting that the CLT chairman does not want the pilots to see? Come on all you usapa supporters. Why are the calls of outrage to your reps. Demanding the information? Maybe you are so apathetic that usapa can do anything they want and you will forgive them of all their sins. Isn’t that how ALPA was allowed to run over the east pilots. No one there to mind the store. No one there to tell the reps that you want the information.

This is your union, the pilots union. Why are you letting Cleary et al get away with keeping things from you? I for one want to hear from Seham and how the AZ federal judge was unfair and did not listen to reason. Why Seham is going to finally win a case. Why usapa had to go all the way to the court of appeals to find justice. Don’t you guys wonder?

May 27, 2009 LAS update

This happened on May 21, 2009
Therefore, the purpose of our visit was to publicly ask the sorts of questions that many pilots are afraid to ask, but for which the pilot group is entitled to answers. After all – this union does belong to the pilots! This was the proper forum in which to ask these questions, as the meeting was supposed to be videotaped and made available for all pilots to view at a later time.

 

[Barrister]

Shucks:

Thanks for the reply. I agree some parts of this merger stink. Considering the other possibilities it's still better than no company to work for no matter what name is on the marquee. There is a huge difference between bringing a job to a merger or being furloughed, as harsh as that may sound. I'm truly sorry for your situation.

Whether or not I will be able to hold widebody flying at some point in the future is moot. Who can predict what equipment might be in a future fleet, should the corporation even survive? AWA had an order for many airframes, about 120, to be announced right around 9/11. I think we were going to be the launch customer for the A-350 but don't hold me to that please. Sadly a wrongly motivated and seriously depraved group wreaked havoc on innocent people that day. Our expectations changed too, just like yours.

I fully expect USAPA loyalists to try to defend their actions. Lots of people got duped, maybe you too. People like Jim Jones will be with us to the end. They drag good people down the road of destruction. That's why it seems we are causing harm to you. If I were a member of the union, I would certainly support efforts to bolster your plight. I'd much rather send in an assessment to cover your bills than fight a lawsuit. I'm thinking of an extension to recall rights if the company were to flourish at least you might be able to return.

Then again USAPA isn't a union at all. I doubt it could negotiate something productive such as that. It was designed for one purpose only. That intent was criminal in perspective of the jury and the court not to mention us. To be sure you need look no further that USAPA's actions. Any objective and reasonable mind would view USAPA in the same light. There is little hope that they would intuitively do the right thing. Something will have to force USAPA to change. To say otherwise is agreeing with the foolish, darkened perspective that they did nothing wrong.

Many may join USAPA to throw out those that caused this mess. The wicked may thrive for a time but we will see their downfall. I am convinced of that. I think keeping USAPA may be better than bringing in a new union. There will need to be changes made to the cb&l's to right the wrongs of it's current structure. The thought of joining now is beyond repulsive to me. I trust that at some point I too will get beyond the raw emotion of this injustice take up my responsibility and join for the good of all. We need to all focus on the good of what we can do together. A house divided will fall.

I look forward to the time we might fly together.

Take care,

Ogee

Believe it or not I do try and not be sarcastic but .......AWA the launch customer for the A-350?? YGTBSM

 

[Furlough Fodder]

You are so right, USAPA said they would be different... who knew they meant they wouldn't make videos for YouTube.. no more old goat videos, or real goats.

Different? Think again:
http://www.youtube.com/user/usairlinepilots


What a joke.... I remember the promises of being an inexpensive and electronic union and now this (if it is in fact true). No other MEC that has represented me has ever purchased new cars.

My next question is since there are USAPA members in good standing in PHX and LAS, when are the National Officers or Mr. Seham going to make themselves available for local Domicile meetings like they do in places like CLT and PHL?

Not holding my breath on that one.

 

[cleardirect]

Believe it or not I do try and not be sarcastic but .......AWA the launch customer for the A-350?? YGTBSM

At the next crew news. Ask Doug why we ordered A350 instead of 787's.

He will tell you because we had a great price from AB. We have the original price. They gave us that price even after they raised it. About a 30% discount if I remember.

What we really wanted was 787 and 321, 320, 319 but AB gave us a smoking deal on A350. To be all AB. We could have gotten favored nation Boeing prices but the old 350 price beat the total.

Ask him yourself when they were ordered. And by who.

 

[Phoenix]

What could have been said at that meeting that the CLT chairman does not want the pilots to see?

Let your mind run wild.. it was every conspiracy you can imagine and ten more that you can't.

 

[hp_fa]

So is Able's quote on the two new cars correct?