Twu=nazi Germany

[twuer]

Bob's quote. . .
Your thing with the colors reminds me of Bobby Gless.

Oh now come on Bob. Get in the Christmas spirit. Ho Ho Ho!! :cold:

 

[Hackman]

You are right Hackman. Freedom of speech. Some just use it better than others.

You wouldn't know the first thing about free speech twuer. I was at your local 514 back in the late 80's/early 90's (the good ol' ed wilson days...Brother, your out of order! ). Its the same now as it was then, if not worse.

You twu 514 clowns haven't learned a thing. Its really sad.

See you in 2004 for the AMFA/twu debate. Make sure you show up.
:unsure: :blink:

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

I got my free sample of TeamTWU toilet paper in the mail today. Isn't it amazing how AMFA caused the bankruptcy of UNITED. I thought it was because of the greedy PILOT's,MANAGEMENT, and the IAM ESOP SCAM. ALASKA AIRLINES mechanics are really in bad shape with AMFA. Their wages and benefits have been going up. They need to join the TWU, so their wages and benefits can go down like when they were represented by the IAM. I didn't know that BRANIFF(2) went bankrupt, because of AMFA. I seem to remember it was because of a greedy management team headed by SCOTT SPENCER(who also wrecked BRANIFF(3). The people that worked there(pilot's,fa's,mech's,etc.) didn't get anything out of that bankruptcy. In fact, a lot of them worked their last two weeks there for free!
Now that's what I call dedication! Those poor mechanics at NORTHWEST how dare they make the highest wages in the airline business(except for AMFA reppresented SOUTHWEST)! They also need to join the TWU, so their wages and benefits can go down like when the IAM represented them. If they had the TWU, they could get back all the outsourced work that the IAM agreed to before AMFA was there, but they would have to be willing to work for minimum wage.

 

[Bob Owens]

I got my free sample of TeamTWU toilet paper in the mail today. Isn't it amazing how AMFA caused the bankruptcy of UNITED. I thought it was because of the greedy PILOT's,MANAGEMENT, and the IAM ESOP SCAM. ALASKA AIRLINES mechanics are really in bad shape with AMFA. Their wages and benefits have been going up. They need to join the TWU, so their wages and benefits can go down like when they were represented by the IAM. I didn't know that BRANIFF(2) went bankrupt, because of AMFA. I seem to remember it was because of a greedy management team headed by SCOTT SPENCER(who also wrecked BRANIFF(3). The people that worked there(pilot's,fa's,mech's,etc.) didn't get anything out of that bankruptcy. In fact, a lot of them worked their last two weeks there for free!
Now that's what I call dedication! Those poor mechanics at NORTHWEST how dare they make the highest wages in the airline business(except for AMFA reppresented SOUTHWEST)! They also need to join the TWU, so their wages and benefits can go down like when the IAM represented them. If they had the TWU, they could get back all the outsourced work that the IAM agreed to before AMFA was there, but they would have to be willing to work for minimum wage.

I suppose that AMFA made USAIR go bankrupt also. Didnt they agree to concessions first and then go bankrupt anyway only to come back for more? HMMM. Didnt USAIR finally get the concessions that the TWU gave away in 1983 by going bankrupt? Same with UAL? So who really made these airlines go bankrupt AMFA or the TWU? Where these airlines that did not have AMFA using bankruptcy to match AMFA contracts or TWU contracts?


Brannif workers worked two weeks for free? Not to be out done, with the TWU we work one day per week for free! It comes out to ten weeks each year worked for free!!!

The TWU created in house outsoucing and layoffs where we still have to work!

Over at SWA their TWU represented F/As have to clean the planes while they are not getting paid and even when they are getting paid they get one of the lowest rates around.

Lets not forget how the TWU "saved jobs" by enabling the company to lay off workers thanks to the week of vacation that everyone had to donate!

Clearly no airline has a better friend in the labor movement than the TWU!

 

[TeamTWU]

And let's not forget it was the TWU membership that voted and passed the concessionary package , and it was this vote that allows Bob to eat. Have you lost a belt size since the concession Bob? You are still ekeing out an existence though understandibly upset with the concessions, I know of no one that wanted the concessions, nor did they want to follow you into bankruptcy Bob, and then fight from the street to regain their jobs. Members were furloughed still, that is correct, but it was not as high a number as it could have been.

Also Bob, what union are you dual with this month?

 

[Hackman]

And let's not forget it was the TWU membership that voted and passed the concessionary package , and it was this vote that allows Bob to eat. Have you lost a belt size since the concession Bob? You are still ekeing out an existence though understandibly upset with the concessions, I know of no one that wanted the concessions, nor did they want to follow you into bankruptcy Bob, and then fight from the street to regain their jobs. Members were furloughed still, that is correct, but it was not as high a number as it could have been.

Also Bob, what union are you dual with this month?

What about the 3200 members that did not get to vote? That fine in the twu, right?

Still a legitimate vote on those concessions, right Team twu? Your a sell-out POS!

Maybe when you grow a brain, Bob will get on the Adkins diet.

Bob stands alot better chance you, coward. :unsure: :blink: :unsure:

 

[TeamTWU]

Maybe when you grow a brain, Bob will get on the Adkins diet.


Bob on an Adkin's diet?

Have you yet to post Hackman without cussing or attempting to belittle? It's OK, you're still my friend.

Have a great Holiday Season!

 

[Bob Owens]

Maybe when you grow a brain, Bob will get on the Adkins diet.


Bob on an Adkin's diet?

Have you yet to post Hackman without cussing or attempting to belittle? It's OK, you're still my friend.

Have a great Holiday Season!

I see that Team TWU is still sticking to the issues.

 

[twuer]

And let's not forget it was the TWU membership that voted and passed the concessionary package , and it was this vote that allows Bob to eat. Have you lost a belt size since the concession Bob? You are still ekeing out an existence though understandibly upset with the concessions, I know of no one that wanted the concessions, nor did they want to follow you into bankruptcy Bob, and then fight from the street to regain their jobs. Members were furloughed still, that is correct, but it was not as high a number as it could have been.

Also Bob, what union are you dual with this month?

What about the 3200 members that did not get to vote? That fine in the twu, right?

Still a legitimate vote on those concessions, right Team twu? Your a sell-out POS!

Maybe when you grow a brain, Bob will get on the Adkins diet.

Bob stands alot better chance you, coward. :unsure: :blink: :unsure:

"Your a sell-out POS! and you, coward". (by Hackman)

There you go again Hackman. Bringin' out the best in yourself! Hey I have an idea, maybe Hackman will be one of the guys who will be on the panel at the debate. Then we'll see if he will throw out the names like he does on these boards.

 

[Bob Owens]

There you go again Hackman. Bringin' out the best in yourself! Hey I have an idea, maybe Hackman will be one of the guys who will be on the panel at the debate. Then we'll see if he will throw out the names like he does on these boards.

I see that you are sticking to the issues again!

Hackman dont you know that its only permissable for the TWU to attack people? Its not fair if we do the same because they are at such a disadvantage!

What is wrong with the idea of all mechanics in one union?

8490 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards seem to show that some people here at AA think its a good idea!

The AGW has over 1000 cards now. Thats double of what they had last month! Obviously word is spreading! The TWU cant just focus their efforts on two bases with Fleet, they are spread out all over the country and the drive started in the two biggest Fleet Locals, DFW and ORD. The word is spreading in JFK now. Looks like the TWU may lose all of us!

 

[TeamTWU]

Bob, I believe it to be a great idea to have all mechanics in one union, an AFL-CIO union. See what you can do about speaking to the AMFA repped mechanics about this dream of yours.

The TWU welcomes all mechanics openly, now go and enjoy Holiday Season!

 

[Oldweirdharold]

Bob, I believe it to be a great idea to have all mechanics in one union, an AFL-CIO union. See what you can do about speaking to the AMFA repped mechanics about this dream of yours.

The TWU welcomes all mechanics openly, now go and enjoy Holiday Season!




Is it just me or does it seem as though this persons posts always seem condesending while at the same time offering no answers and nothing positive. Teaamtwu you deserve an award for speaking without really saying anything, reminds me of a politician... Name for me the advantages of being affiliated with afl-cio as opposed to independant craft union and forget sheer mumbers of members which do not support each other and will in fact take in struck work per their weak agreements .. Why has the great afl-cio not informed us to avoid Walmart, or Albertsons, Ralphs or any of the other companies which dump all over union and non union alike.. Albertsons are local here and I'd bet you'd find some twu faithful buying beer and cigs there now, WHY THE SILENT TREATMENT- BTW I do still read the twu excuse last page boycott section but why not make a flier to get the word out double quick on local level??

Jim Anderson 4D

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I believe it to be a great idea to have all mechanics in one union, an AFL-CIO union. See what you can do about speaking to the AMFA repped mechanics about this dream of yours.

The TWU welcomes all mechanics openly, now go and enjoy Holiday Season!




Is it just me or does it seem as though this persons posts always seem condesending while at the same time offering no answers and nothing positive. Teaamtwu you deserve an award for speaking without really saying anything, reminds me of a politician... Name for me the advantages of being affiliated with afl-cio as opposed to independant craft union and forget sheer mumbers of members which do not support each other and will in fact take in struck work per their weak agreements .. Why has the great afl-cio not informed us to avoid Walmart, or Albertsons, Ralphs or any of the other companies which dump all over union and non union alike.. Albertsons are local here and I'd bet you'd find some twu faithful buying beer and cigs there now, WHY THE SILENT TREATMENT- BTW I do still read the twu excuse last page boycott section but why not make a flier to get the word out double quick on local level??

Jim Anderson 4D

Jim;

The Boycott list simply covers their behind. It supports the facade that the International is pro-worker instead of just pro-dues. They also put in the Agency Fee Policy every year too. There is no real effort made to inform the members why they should boycott these goods, but it looks good to have it there.

The fact is the TWU will not take active steps to support other unions, why should they, they dont even support their own members!

At 562 we urged the International to support other unions time and time again. Against their wishes we encouraged our members to walk with our flight attendants to give them moral support. Little claimed that "thats not our fight, they are not even affiliated". We took part anyway and they returned the favor when we picketed.

A while back Little sent out an E-mail telling us about how an organizer who was working for the TWU got fired by Delta. I wrote to Little that we should get the AFL-CIO involved and picket every Delta Terminal in the country in protest. He danced around it and then pretty much said that "most of the members dont care", the AFL-CIO wont back us, etc.. I replied that some of them (the members)do care, and thats why we do what we do. I believe I still have those E-mails. Its someting how the blame gets passed back and forth.

Little and the TWU often send out things, but they really dont want the members to do anything about them. They dont want them to do anything and then they blame them for not participating. Its a Catch-22 for the members.

I'm so sick of hearing that the members are to blame for the decline that we have suffered. The fact is that the TWU never made any effort to resist the decline. The members never failed the leadership of the union, the leadership of the union failed the members. When the union suggested that an agreement be rejected it was, when they said to accept it, it was, so if the membership followed their lead it is extremely hypocritical to blame the members for accepting the agreement.

At one of our membership meetings Jim Little told the membership "Dont ever reject a TA because you will never get anything better". UNBELIEVABLE!!!

While it is true that if members fail to particpate in AMFA that the union will be weak it is not true that the members are entirely to blame for not participating in the TWU and that a "change of venue" by going to AMFA will not change anything. While AMFA can not guarantee instantaneous radical change it does offer us the opportunity to join together with most of the other mechanics as we strive to get all mechanics under one organization with the same objective- representing mechanics and promoting the profession. The TWU could never offer us such a focused objective. AFL-CIO affiliation prohibits the TWU from seeking to have us join together with other mechanics who are in the AFL-CIO. So we could never strive to unite all the mechanics with the TWU, even if we could get democratic reform and accountability, which at this time we cant. Their chances of raiding AMFA represented mechanics is pretty much-NIL.

The fact is that the TWU only makes superficial attempts at getting the members involved. A raffle does not increase participation, it may increase attendance, but not participation. The TWU actually inhibits participation because they lambast anyone with a differing opinion. Instead of trying to convert with logic and issues they blast them with accusations and slurs. They are not alone at this, they have successfully made it a part of our culture. They do this because when scrutinized as far as how their positions and record alligns with the princeples of true unionism the facade of industrial unionism is blasted away to reveal that the TWU/ATD is a company union operating under the princeples of business unionism. Its all about the bottom line, ideology is not the governing factor.

I think that everyone agrees that we need change, well the fact is that all of the members at AA could not change the TWU ATD director or the TWU President if they wanted to. They do not get to vote on either of these people. And these people, despite what they say about Presidents council votes etc, have complete authority over our contract. That is a fact. Court case after court case will support that statement. The courts take this position because the court assumes that Presidents can be held accountable by the members, and in a way they are right. Sonny will be held accountable when we get our ballotts. In the meantime he will do everything in his power to prevent that from ever happening.

If the Presidents council does not vote the way Little/Hall wants them to he simply tells them that the company wont accept that and keeps them voting over and over again until they vote for what he wantedin the first place. The only time this did not work was when the International wanted seperate locals. The Presidents council firmly rejected it, but then Hall put them in place whether they liked it or not. So much for the Presidents council running things at AA.

Time and time again we hear the Littles and the Halls say that members need to get involved if they want change, basically saying that its the members that must change and not the leaders. Well the members have taken proactive steps towards change. RDU recently bounced out their President. Time and time again they replace their Local leaders when concessionary contracts are brought back. They voted for change but changing local officials does little to change the TWU or the inevitability of concessionary contracts. Each wave of fresh inexperienced officers make easy pickins for the International. Competant leaders who resist the International and concessions are sabotaged by the International, in some cases fired by a cooperative company, in others they simply remove them from office.

The members hit a brick wall if they try to push for change beyond the local level. For over 20 years the members have been changing their representation or withdrawing from the union as much as they can because for 20 years the TWU has been bringing back and selling concessionary contracts, and nothing has changed. If they have their way nothing will change either.

The TWU has no incentive to change. They have effectively thrown the blame back into the face of the membership and gotten away with it. The TWU has had a twenty year success with a 'jobs (dues) for concessions' policy. The TWU gives AA Industry leading concessions. Uses the members dues to sell them the concessions then when the members realize that they got stuck with a bad deal tells them "you voted for it". They set up the Presidents Council to make the members believe that they have control over the contract and by changing the Local Presidents they could change the outcome of the contracts. Of couse this proves to be a falacy because the Presidents council/negotiating committe really does not negotiate with the company. They negotiate between themselves as to what they are going to ask the International to present to the company. Show me where the contract even acknowledges the AA Presidents council as an authoritive body on the contract. You wont find it, it does not exist. Show me where the Constitution gives the Presidents Council authority over our agreement. You wont find that either. The fact is that Jim Little, through Sonny Hall has complete authority over our contract, AND WE CAN NOT VOTE HIM OUT. This was displayed during the Concessions of 2003 and the court case that Local 562 filed afterwards.

The fact is Jim that the TWU is about one thing-collecting dues to provide International officers six figure salaries, a union pension, cars, secretaries and loads of other perks. Sonny Hall is about one thing-consolidating power for Sonny Hall. We have a man who is comfortably beyond retirement age whose lust for power is insatiable. He is the image of Stalin. Weilding an Iron hand to any opposition while posturing as a great benifactor to the working class. In the meantime he has been instramental in Labors decline. I doubt that any other union out there spends as high of a percentage of their revenue fighting their own members in court. They fail to promote any real ideology because the last thing they want is a militant, educated membership. The IAM tried that and they lost Alaska, NWA and UAL to AMFA. An educated membership would clearly see the deficiencies of the TWU and a militant membership would not tolerate it.
However despite their smokescreen of deciet the truth continues to slowly come out and the truth will set us free from this company union.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I believe it to be a great idea to have all mechanics in one union, an AFL-CIO union. See what you can do about speaking to the AMFA repped mechanics about this dream of yours.

The TWU welcomes all mechanics openly, now go and enjoy Holiday Season!

Well actually I wrote to Sonny Hall about it three years ago.

Actually I suggested that all airline workers get together in one union.


Would you like a copy of the letters that went back and forth?

Since Sonny obviously has no intentions on pursueing this what are your recommendations?

 

[TeamTWU]

Bob. keep your letters, they are of no use to me and a positive influence to your ego I'm sure. Listing boycotts? How many members currently do you think even know how to find the list? We need education Bob, as every union does. Without this knowledge we'll never realize a true solidarity. Why did no one mention Tyson? My point exactly. It supports the facade that the International is pro-worker instead of just pro-dues, really Bob, that's an unsupported accusation praying upon those that read your ramblings. Are you, the AMFA, prepared to be put under a microscope as you have the TWU? Are you Bob prepared to explain to the members why you only "did what was possible using what was possible" or will you lead them into the 24% unemployed, telling them and their hungry families that " when you return it will be at full benefits and pay". Are you guaranteeing the card signers that if AMFA prevails all will change, the outsourcing will stop, the eating away of our benefits package will cease? Have you looked around the US of A lately Bob, and witnessed the outsourcing being led by the corporations. Or do you blame this action on the TWU alone? Do you support the R.O. Committee? Does AMFA have one? You speak of OSM's as if they are a disease in our midst. Last I looked they were competant mechanics doing what they had to to support their families until the health of the company turns around. And our cleaners Bob, shall we throw them a bone and a handshake? AMFA only allows those the courts deemed associated to belong, am I wrong here? I personally have as friends and know a lot of good members not mechanics. They suffer with the mechanics in all the company's trials.

While it is true that if members fail to particpate in AMFA that the union will be weak it is not true that the members are entirely to blame for not participating in the TWU and that a "change of venue" by going to AMFA will not change anything. ...Already making excuses here Bob?

Listen Bob, enjoy the Holiday Season with your family as I will mine, and give this some true thought, what can AMFA do different that effects the memberships more than the TWU, and please, the voting out of officers is lame and not what I'm looking for here.