Amfa-twu Debate(the Official One)

[Bob Owens]

"I dont know what everyone is so afraid of? If AA should go out of business somebody else will buy or lease those airplanes, paint them a different color and need workers to provide the service."

Gee, that's what I said about TWA and now here we go again...

Exactly. TWA is gone but you are still alive and well. The sky did not come crashing down. Imagine how we would all be doing now if we were all in one union from the get go where one was not willing to undercut the other just to keep the company's failed business plan going? Sure we may have faced more layoffs but we would be making a lot more when we were working. Thats how this industry was when I first got into it. Every year guys were laid off, but they almost always came back. At the end of the year, despite the layoffs, they still made more than most other people.

We missed that opportunity but its never too late to start. Lets build a union to stay with us our entire career, not one that comes as part of a package deal with our latest employer. This way if our children decide to follow us into this industry we will have made it a career worth passing on.

 

[mojo13]

Gee Bob, I don't know how many more airlines I can go through.

 

[Raptor]

Got this from the AMFA Tulsa forum it appears that the TWU was not denied entrance but instead hammack chose to leave for the whole group.

also who gives a danm what someone from another airline has to say, Go back to your own Airline and wine.

This is what the TWU was passing out to the membership today in Tulsa........

//////////////////////////////////////////////////

On Saturday, at the Brady Theater, over 100 TWU supporters gathered to send a strong message that we are sticking with our union. We were joined by dissatisfied AMFA members from United and Horizon Airlines, who are angry about the poor representation that they have recieved under AMFA. Other TWU supporters included John Gaines, the local labor council president, Teamsters, OPEIU members, and several religious leaders.

Kevin Hammack, from Local 514, and Brian Connors, a laid off mechanic from the United Airlines maintenance base in Indianapoplis, led a delegation into the Brady Theater and challenged AMFA's national director to a debate. The TWU supporters waited at the entrance to the theater for the delegation to return with news of whether AMFA would accept our debate challenge.

Inside the theater, Connors addressed O.V.Delle-Femine who was standing on the stage. Connors said, "You find time to meet with American Airlines workers in Tulsa, but you ignore your members who have been decimated by layoffs in cities like Indianapolis, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Oakland, and Seattle." When Connors and Hammack challenged Dell-Femine to debate them, Delle-Femine rejected their offer. The AMFA leader told Connors, "If you have a problem, talk to your local."

Hammack and Connors came out of the Brady and announce that Delle-Femine had rejected their debate challenge. At that time, AMFA's hired security guards announced that we would only be able to enter the Brady Theater "five at a time." With these restrictions, Hammack announced, "The TWU and AFL-CIO unions are about unity. All of us came here together, and if they won't let us go inside together, let's all leave together." With that, the TWU supporters left the theater's entrance and crossed the street to where we parked our cars in a parking lot.

Outside of the theater, Connors addressed the TWU supporters. "Don't make the mistake we made," Connor's said. "At United, we listened to AMFA and took our chance in bandruptcy. This decision cost us 6,000 jobs, two base closures, deeper wage cuts, and unrestricted outsourcing of heavy maintenance. To this day, we remain vulnerable and exposed to any concession demand presented to the bankruptcy court."

Connors closed by saying, "We're living th AMFA dream, and it's turned into a nightmare."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////

All I can personally say is that if we are all truely united here in the TWU then why are the mechanics the only ones getting 50% pay reduction on the first two sick days we use.

 

[Bob Owens]

Gee Bob, I don't know how many more airlines I can go through.

I know the feeling, I've got at least 6 so far. Fortunately I've got good time here.

We can no longer bank on one employer for life. Thats why we need a union like the Carpenters and Electricians. They change jobs and companies frequently, but their pay stays the same. An Experienced A&P should not have to start at the bottom of the payscale everytime he starts with a new employer. He brings his skill and experience with him. He should get credit for that.

 

[mojo13]

"also who gives a danm what someone from another airline has to say, Go back to your own Airline and wine."

Obviously not you chump!

We are in this airline together now chump. Get used to it!

 

[Steve Connell]

Raptor, Bob, why not allow an AMFA member ask Delle questions in front of his peers? Was Delle afraid of the issues, I don't think so, I think he was afraid to answer the issues presented by ACTIVE AMFA MEMBERS!

 

[Dan Cunningham]

Gentlemen, and you too Earl Steve Connell,

I have paid over $7,000 or so in dues monies to the TWU and personally to Sonny Hall. Over 1,000 signatures were documented on a petition to send Sonny to the Brady Theatre on January 17, 2004. Sonny Hall did not show up and did not send an excuse for his absence to the 1,000 petitioners. Some class, the lead punk, drunk, and coward is too cowardly to send a response to the DUES PAYING PETITIONERS!!!

Enough said. Sonny, along with the foolish and most assuredly cowardly cultist believers don't deserve another dues dollar from true unionists that fight the totally corrupt twu. I enjoyed bulling you around at will Earl, both verbally and physically, maybe your fat friend, Fred Bushwacker will present a more formidable challenge than you and your new convict buddy, Kirk.

Remember, Tuff Luv is Better than No Luv at ALL!

Dan

 

[Checking it Out]

Dan you claim a petition was sent with 1000 signatures! Was this voted on by the local? Actually 100,000 +/- did not sign. I believe the majority have choosen not to sign which they have given you an answer.

The members control the Union and I for one have faith in the majority.

You know you guys are looking pretty dumb right know! Go read the amfa constitution about who they claim controls them?

 

[Steve Connell]

Dan, with a belly like you've developed I suppose you can bullie anyone at will, but listen up real close Dan, whenever and wherever you want to take it to the next level just ask, fact brother, you don't even have to ask. You're really a jewel, when we were across the street at AA, just you and me, you were awful quiet, no bullying then, wonder why. Could it be your glass jaw I hear so much about? How many times did that guy punch you down boy? Try this Danny boy, stick to the facts with AMFA and TWU, if you want something else just ask man next time we meet, no problemo. Go impress someone else with your bully antics, I'm not impressed nor intimidated . You represent AMFA well.

Also Danny boy, I'll copy your post and make sure Fred gets it. Careful what you wish for loser.

I can't believe Sonny didn't show when Danny called, think it was because we stated it was OUR DECISION-OUR DEBATE?

 

[Hackman]

Dan you claim a petition was sent with 1000 signatures! Was this voted on by the local? Actually 100,000 +/- did not sign. I believe the majority have choosen not to sign which they have given you an answer.

The members control the Union and I for one have faith in the majority.

You know you guys are looking pretty dumb right know! Go read the amfa constitution about who they claim controls them?

Doesn't need to be voted on by the local cio. It was a grassroot effort by the membership here at AFW and elsewhere that wanted Sunny and the international to debate Delle and AMFA. Did the 514 vote not to have him at the Farce on the 15th? Of course not. He told his twu robots to run blocker, because he can't debate AMFA, he's a bus painter for crisssakes. The twu international leaders are unaccountable to the members.

The members control the union? You must talking about AMFA. Glad you finally pulled you head out of your crack!!!! I bet it took some serious effort.

Looking dumb?? Hmmmm. I think the AMFA organizers in Tulsa should post some more of the pics from the Brady meeting of the twu protesters. Was that your butt crack showing in the door in front of woman and kids cio? I thought you had more brains than to pull that. Nope, guess not.

Fact is cio, you twu clowns got us more cards signed in Tulsa with your childish antics.

Thank you!!!

THE twu IS OUT THE DOOR IN 04!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

Hackman go ahead and post the pictures, nothing to hide it will show the numbers.

Sorry hackman Sonny had nothing to do with the decission, it was the members who decided. And it was the members who controls the TWU unlike amfa who has a dictator.

The members wanted the debate. go on back and suck up to your dictator!!! or better yet Dan.

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry hackman Sonny had nothing to do with the decission, it was the members who decided. And it was the members who controls the TWU unlike amfa who has a dictator.

Sometimes if you tell a lie enough times it is still recognized as a lie.


In the TWU members do not get to choose top union officials nor do they have the right under the TWU Constitution to ratify or deny their own contracts.

Under AMFA the members vote for top Union official and vote on their contracts.

Do you know what a Dictator is?

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

Gentlemen, and you too Earl Steve Connell,

I have paid over $7,000 or so in dues monies to the TWU and personally to Sonny Hall. Over 1,000 signatures were documented on a petition to send Sonny to the Brady Theatre on January 17, 2004. Sonny Hall did not show up and did not send an excuse for his absence to the 1,000 petitioners. Some class, the lead punk, drunk, and coward is too cowardly to send a response to the DUES PAYING PETITIONERS!!!

Enough said. Sonny, along with the foolish and most assuredly cowardly cultist believers don't deserve another dues dollar from true unionists that fight the totally corrupt twu. I enjoyed bulling you around at will Earl, both verbally and physically, maybe your fat friend, Fred Bushwacker will present a more formidable challenge than you and your new convict buddy, Kirk.

Remember, Tuff Luv is Better than No Luv at ALL!

Dan

I enjoyed bulling you around at will Earl, both verbally and physically, maybe your fat friend, Fred Bushwacker will present a more formidable challenge than you and your new convict buddy, Kirk.


NOW NOW DAN, You had your chance to "bully" Fred, admit it, why didnt you challenge Fred the ANVIL BUSHWACKER when you had the chance? Oh I see, what I thought, I dont blame you, ...........Fred is a mighty big MAN, for a boy of your stature to handle, You had the audience you desire with Fred, You know you were invited, oh, going to deny? Why didnt you break holds with Fred? Oh I see, he had you by your hand and you couldnt escape, He does have a really tight hand grip, but WOW did you see the size of his hands? Dan, Fred is not fat, Fred is musles, all muscles, and he can handle his "dynamite"
Maybe Fred didnt see you as a "formidable" challenge
Do you really want to keep going here with threats? Is this what AMFA does to all, wants to hurts others? Keep it up and someone will get hurt

 

[Raptor]

Yes CIO you had about a 100 people as can easily be seen in the pictures floating around work, but also what can be easily seen is that most of them will not get to vote in the election, Stock Clerks can not vote, Teamsters can not vote, AMFA members from other Airlines can not vote.

so what was the point, ? where were all the Mechanics who will be voting, ? they were inside the brady theater thats where, all 300 people that was in the Brady Theater will be able to vote in the election.

I believe that is what the AMFA organizers were interested in.
your group was not the Target audience.

 

[mojo13]

Gentlemen, and you too Earl Steve Connell,

I have paid over $7,000 or so in dues monies to the TWU and personally to Sonny Hall. Over 1,000 signatures were documented on a petition to send Sonny to the Brady Theatre on January 17, 2004. Sonny Hall did not show up and did not send an excuse for his absence to the 1,000 petitioners. Some class, the lead punk, drunk, and coward is too cowardly to send a response to the DUES PAYING PETITIONERS!!!

Enough said. Sonny, along with the foolish and most assuredly cowardly cultist believers don't deserve another dues dollar from true unionists that fight the totally corrupt twu. I enjoyed bulling you around at will Earl, both verbally and physically, maybe your fat friend, Fred Bushwacker will present a more formidable challenge than you and your new convict buddy, Kirk.

Remember, Tuff Luv is Better than No Luv at ALL!

Dan

Dan, here is a message from Fred;

Anytime, Anywhere!!!