Amfa-twu Debate(the Official One)

[Hackman]

Dear Steve,

It was the membership of your beloved Local 514 that took a non binding vote to cast all TWA personal to the bottom of the seniority list. You are taking up for those who would have completely taken any seniority you had. There were two people who that I am aware of that took a position opposite of the membership and publicly stated that the former TWA members should be "dovetailed". Those two people are the evil Dave Stewart and myself. We actually made TWU members mad.
Go ahead and support those that would have cut your throat had it not been for the Kasher decision.

Hey Buck,

I sure is rough where you learn that you are fighting the wrong people. The ones that you thought were your friends, really are not. We have all been there. The twu 514 cares about one thing: THEMSELVES!!!!!

 

[Steve Connell]

Buck, why is it when the AMFA supporters and organizers first meet with a TWAer the first words out of their mouths is the seniority issue. Let me answer this one for you, it's ALL YOU HAVE TO SWAY A VOTE.

I spoke with many rank and file members while in TUL, no one, read my lips, no one I spoke with denied the fact that a vote was taken and the concessus was to put TWA at the bottom of the list. They explained their reasons to me and I understand their stance, 100% of their reasoning was "family first", they voted to save their jobs. Though I do not agree with this, my stance is just that, mine. They showed the backbone to confront me one on one with this, I did not ask them, they approached me in a manner of concern.

Now, to show the pride of the AMFA organizers, first words out of Dave Stewarts mouth when I met him were " This isn't about AMFA or the TWU, this is about how the company is screwing us". Then he immediately hit me with the seniority issue. Some backbone that boy has, I wouldn't follow him across the ramp. And these are your organizers? Surely you have better somewhere. If I was AMFA I would be embarrassed. All four of your major organizers are a disgrace. They speak so big when they type here but confronted one on one they are wooses, and I mean real wooses. Don Rodgers is the only exception that I would consider changing my stance on, he has always presented himself professionally, I just do not agree with his opinions or direction. God help AMFA if they rely on the others, the speakers at the debate that spoke for AMFA showed more conviction and backbone than all the organizers, that is an undisputeable fact.

Point being in all this, we at MCIE are unionists, we are the same TWU that are present @ AA. Solidarity was shown this past week that will continue, AA needs to become aware we are all together as the TWU and represent well.

AMFA reps, find another issue to yell about, our seniority issue is old news, we are more concerned about keeping jobs at MCIE than seniority issues currently. Looking at AMFA's track record I can only thank the TWU for being my union.

 

[Buck]

Are you saying that seniority is not important in a union?

 

[Steve Connell]

Not at all Buck, but there's bigger fish to fry right now and you and all of AMFA know it. Want to tell me again how AMFA would have respected my seniority? Go ahead, explain to the 7000 members in TULE how AMFA would guarantee my seniority. That is the message your AMFA organizers told to those in KC that listened, all 12 of them.

 

[Bob Owens]

Not at all Buck, but there's bigger fish to fry right now and you and all of AMFA know it. Want to tell me again how AMFA would have respected my seniority? Go ahead, explain to the 7000 members in TULE how AMFA would guarantee my seniority. That is the message your AMFA organizers told to those in KC that listened, all 12 of them.

What do you think would have happened if we were IAM instead of the TWU?

I would be in favor of a common list should we all get into one union, however with all the dislocation we have seen in this industry I could not see how at this point it would have been fair to see older AA workers displaced by workers who chose to stay with a failing company.

AMFA got 12 TWU members. How many AMFA members do you think would go to a TWU meeting? As a matter of fact how much interest did you have in the TWU prior to the IAM abandoning you?

 

[Steve Connell]

Hey Bob, with all respect meant, STFU fatboy. You put your nose where it isn't welcomed. I bet your little fingers are just sweating in anticipation of another 5000 word post. Bob, go out, get a life...better yet, take your own. Hmmm, sorry, that was very juvenile of me biggun. I apologize sincerely and with much regret you FF!

 

[Bob Owens]

Hey Bob, with all respect meant, STFU fatboy. You put your nose where it isn't welcomed. I bet your little fingers are just sweating in anticipation of another 5000 word post. Bob, go out, get a life...better yet, take your own. Hmmm, sorry, that was very juvenile of me biggun. I apologize sincerely and with much regret you FF!

Now now Steve, being thin skinned and thick skulled will not help you win a debate.

 

[Raptor]

Humor thats good guys.

PLEASE no 5000 word posts I have a short attention span anymore than about 5 lines and I fall asleep.

 

[mojo13]

What do you think would have happened if we were IAM instead of the TWU?

I would be in favor of a common list should we all get into one union, however with all the dislocation we have seen in this industry I could not see how at this point it would have been fair to see older AA workers displaced by workers who chose to stay with a failing company.

AMFA got 12 TWU members. How many AMFA members do you think would go to a TWU meeting? As a matter of fact how much interest did you have in the TWU prior to the IAM abandoning you?

Looks like we all hung on to a failing company Bob. Remember AA saying it was going to go bankrupt. Isn't that why we gave concessions to save them and our jobs??? Oh you still here too? Hanging on to a failing company Bob? :down:

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob, I'm not out to win a debate you FF. My kid's schools and my livlihood are at stake here. I wish it was just a debate I wouldn't get so irate if it was. You mess with my family when you bring AMFA into the picture man.

Let's try this Bob..I got roughly 7:03 on my PC..I'll try not to call you a FF but stick to AMFA's track record. We are both parents I believe. Is your seniority so high you can risk AMFA?

 

[Buck]

Bob, you are welcome in all of my conversations and posts, thanks.

On one side the TWU supporters cry that AMFA does not want their non mechanic and related, then they when when we attempt to get involved they resort to juvenile tactics

 

[Steve Connell]

Buck, is it due to the NMB that you get involved? Alf admitted at his Sept. 12th get together that AMFA was 80% AMT and the rest related. That is an industrialist association!

We need to focus on our future, not our dreams here.

 

[Bob Owens]

What do you think would have happened if we were IAM instead of the TWU?

I would be in favor of a common list should we all get into one union, however with all the dislocation we have seen in this industry I could not see how at this point it would have been fair to see older AA workers displaced by workers who chose to stay with a failing company.

AMFA got 12 TWU members. How many AMFA members do you think would go to a TWU meeting? As a matter of fact how much interest did you have in the TWU prior to the IAM abandoning you?

Looks like we all hung on to a failing company Bob. Remember AA saying it was going to go bankrupt. Isn't that why we gave concessions to save them and our jobs??? Oh you still here too? Hanging on to a failing company Bob? :down:

Yea, if we are to believe them.

The point is do concessions work or do we keep our rates up as long as possible so we can make it through the transition to who ever replaces these companies that cant compete? What makes you think the company will stop here? They have to be thinking, "Boy that was easy, lets see what else we can squeeze out of them". In the meantime shouldnt we set up a union that will be ours for life? Not just one that comes as part of the package of a particular employer?

I dont know what everyone is so afraid of? If AA should go out of business somebody else will buy or lease those airplanes, paint them a different color and need workers to provide the service.


Steve;
I think you need a "time out". Okay now go stand in the corner and reconsider your behavior.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, you are welcome in all of my conversations and posts, thanks.

On one side the TWU supporters cry that AMFA does not want their non mechanic and related, then they when when we attempt to get involved they resort to juvenile tactics

Thanks.

They are so programmed they fail to see the forrest for the trees.

As you know I can be a PITA but that guy behaves like a child!

 

[mojo13]

"I dont know what everyone is so afraid of? If AA should go out of business somebody else will buy or lease those airplanes, paint them a different color and need workers to provide the service."

Gee, that's what I said about TWA and now here we go again...