Twu=nazi Germany

[Bob Owens]

Because Mr. Owens attempted change from within and went about it deceitfully and with no direction please do not think we do not listen to our membership.

Again, the TWU wishes you and yours the best of holidays, God bless the working men and women.

Decietfully?

I was as clear as day from day one. I never mislead anyone.

Without direction? How much detail did you expect?

You may listen but you do not act.

Yes God bless the working men and women, who make life easy for you.

The TWU wishes us the best of holidays, as long as we dont expect to get them off or get paid for them.

 

[Boomer]

TeamTWU Posted: Dec 14 2003, 10:01 PM

Newbie
Group: Member
Posts: 12
Member No.: 3,061
Joined: 8-December 03

Because Mr. Owens attempted change from within and went about it deceitfully and with no direction please do not think we do not listen to our membership.

Again, the TWU wishes you and yours the best of holidays, God bless the working men and women.
--------------------
TeamTWU
_________________________________________________________

TeamTWU,

How many times was a procedure proposed before the Presidents' Council on dealing with Letters Of Agreement and how many times was it voted down?

Did the TWU-AA Presidents' Council EVER approve a procedure by which Letters of Agreement would be approved?

How many "little" letters were written promising that any LOA dealing with changes in hours, pay and working conditions would be considered "Major" disputes under the RLA?

Did the TWU-ATD EVER promise that due to the failure of the Company to provide material information: a re-vote would be conducted?

Was the re-vote conducted?

Did Mr. Owens, with the full knowledge of the Local 562 Executive Board, pursue meetings with Sonny Hall and members of the Executive Board of the AFL-CIO concerning the re-alignment of classes and crafts beneath the AFL-CIO banner?

Was Mr. Owens EVER instructed to CEASE AND DESIST from his efforts to create a MORE UNIFORM LABOR STRUCTURE by either Sonny Hall or the AFL-CIO or ANY Member thereof?

Did the TWU-ATD or the Executive Board of Local 562 EVER INSTRUCT Mr. Owens to CEASE AND DESIST from his efforts towards creating a more unified labor structure beneath the AFL-CIO UMBRELLA?

TeamTWU-you cannot answer these questions factually without those answers reflecting a complete failure of the TWU, Sonny Hall and the AFL-CIO towards those Union Members Mr. Owens sought to protect.

In my opinion, Bob Owens and Chuck Schalk were hung out to dry because Sonny Hall felt threatened by the realtionship between Local 562 and Touissant and the electoral votes such a relationship could bring at the next TWU Constitutional Convention.

TUL, AFW, MCI, DFW, ORD, MIA, LAX all went along because it kept their power positions for the same TWU Constitutional Convention--the real reason those Local Presidents were allowed to stay in charge.

 

[Checking it Out]

Boomer wrote; In my opinion, Bob Owens and Chuck Schalk were hung out to dry because Sonny Hall felt threatened by the realtionship between Local 562 and Touissant and the electoral votes such a relationship could bring at the next TWU Constitutional Convention.
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Actuallly the truth is a good portion of the members were putting pressure on the Leadership of the TWU to force the Presidents and others to represent the members. These TWO Individuals choose not to support the members in they're best interest, Therefor were replaced. It was obvious the oath they took meant nothing in turn they could not honestly give 100 percent of their time to the membership.

The TWU Did the right thing to remove them from office and deserve a round gratitude. Bob has no morals or ethics in this matter and can not be trusted, By his own actions shows he will jump ship when the time gets rough. Same as many of the Amfa wantabes. Go ask how many of these Individuals are willing to put forth the effort on a daily basis to represent? Most here a begging for the TWU members who get involved to stay involved if an election should ever happen? Unlikely at this time.

 

[Bob Owens]

Boomer wrote; In my opinion, Bob Owens and Chuck Schalk were hung out to dry because Sonny Hall felt threatened by the realtionship between Local 562 and Touissant and the electoral votes such a relationship could bring at the next TWU Constitutional Convention.
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Actuallly the truth is a good portion of the members were putting pressure on the Leadership of the TWU to force the Presidents and others to represent the members. These TWO Individuals choose not to support the members in they're best interest, Therefor were replaced. It was obvious the oath they took meant nothing in turn they could not honestly give 100 percent of their time to the membership.

The TWU Did the right thing to remove them from office and deserve a round gratitude. Bob has no morals or ethics in this matter and can not be trusted, By his own actions shows he will jump ship when the time gets rough. Same as many of the Amfa wantabes. Go ask how many of these Individuals are willing to put forth the effort on a daily basis to represent? Most here a begging for the TWU members who get involved to stay involved if an election should ever happen? Unlikely at this time.

CIO;
In your twisted mind the only "members" there are is those who cram into the Kremlin on Pine in Tulsa.

The fact is that "the members" who we represented picked us to represent them and it was Sonny Hall and Jim Little that had us removed. If you dont believe this then why not tell the International to remove the suspension and run another election?

The fact is that we both would be elected by an even higher margin this time than last time.


Who decides what is in the members best interests? The members or you?

Tell me more about your TWU morals as displayed by people like Dennis Burchette (apparent wife beater, adulterer), Bobby Gless (adulterer) and Kurt Wells (apparent thief).

I make my statements and accusations with my name on them, you on the other hand make yours from behind an alias. If you are going to make accusations be specific and be a man about it, put your name on it you coward.

The fact is we did represent our members, even the stores guys have been very supportive. The call for our removal came from Tulsa, who we never claimed to represent. Are you saying that only Tulsa should have a say in this Union? Or only those at Pine?

Now that I've been suspended it gives me more freedom to pursue the goal that I made Sonny Hall aware more than three years ago. A goal that he did not object to until three years later when he removed me from office.

The fact is that everyone admits that what we have is not working. The members admit it, and the leaders admit it. The only difference of opinion is where the fault lies.

The members blame the leaders and the leaders blame the members.

What does this solve?

Nothing.

Who bears the majority of the burden to come up with a solution?

THE LEADERSHIP.

Thats why we have leaders. We do not have leaders simply to lavish them with six figure salaries and perks. They are not supposed to simply be administrators either. They are supposed to be LEADERS. To lead implies forward motion.

The fact is that the structure and policies of the TWU discourage leadership. We have no leaders in the top posts. Many of the top positions of the TWU are occupied by people who the members would not re-elect but who were obedient servants of the International.

There are two things that airline workers need in order to combat the combined forces of the industry and the government. We need unions that are focused on our industry. We need a union that will unite us regardless of employer under one umbrella with the same objectives. We cant belong to a union that is willing to sell out the airline workers to get funding for AMTRACK. And we need democratic unions where we get to pick someone from our industry to represent us.

I was trying to get thse changes made from within. I'd written to Sonny Hall, Thomas Buffenbarger, Hoffa and Sweeney about merging the three ATDs into one union. Sweeneys office contacted me by phone right away and encouraged me to go forward with it. In the exchange between Sonny Hall and I he even admitted that it was a good idea and I quote; "I fully understand the positives of having every AFL-CIO Union that represents airline workers, under one Labor organization. Nontheless, leaders must understand the reality of such a goal. Your union would respond to any call from the AFL-CIO leadership to meet with all the unions involved and, at least, talk about it, but, Robert, our Lord himself may not be able to accomplish this goal".

Lets look at this quote from Sonny Hall concerning this issue. Before I start does anyone out there see any reason why the members would not benifit from an industrywide, unified labor force as opposed to the current structure which everyone admits does not work?

Sonny Hall said "Your union would respond to any call from the AFL-CIO leadership". This is a totally disengenous statement. John Sweeney, in a phone conversation stated that the AFL-CIO does not work this way. The unions come to it and they decide what actions to take. He said that such a movement by the AFL-CIO leadership is out of protocal and beyond the scope of the organization. Any such merger would have to be initiated by the unions invloved and not by the AFL-CIO.

Sonny Hall also said "our Lord himself may not be able to accomplish this goal". In a follow up letter I asked him "WHY? He did not respond. However this past MAY (3 years after the initial exchange-so much for jumping ship) I brought the issue up again in a face to face meeting at Sonny's posh Broadway office along with the VP of LAX Rick DeMarco. This time he said that he favors the idea. He said that he would do it, he knows that consolidation is needed in the labor movement and that he had tried to initiate a merger between the ATU and the TWU. According to him all the top leaders would go for it, it was the mid level guys who feared that consolidation could limit their potential to move up who were against it. I said "Scerw them, whats more important the livelihoods of hunreds of thousands of airline workers or the ability of a few union officials to move up?" At that point Sonny claimed to have a prior appointment and asked us to go and bring any other issues up with Mike Bakala.

That was just a few examples of the change from within that I sought in order to meet the first objective- uniting airline workers regardless of employer under one organization.

In order to meet the second objective- A democratic union I actively sought to get support for an accountable, accurate voting system for the Conventions. After observing the farce at the 2001 Convention as a delegate it was easy to spot a major flaw. The three hundred delegates were seated along with alternate delegates and the votes were conducted by a voice vote. This is wholly inappropriate. If someone could yell louder than someone else or was seated near the front he effectively had more of a vote than someone who was not as loud or sat in the back. Local 100 made strong objections to this process and called for all voting to be done by division of the house, Sonny called for and rejected the motion because the craps tables were waiting.

I also wrote to every President that I could find off the TWU website explaining my position on how voting was condicted in an E-mail entitled "Sonny's Party"and offered a solution. I included a link to audiencevoting.com. A company that offers a system where votes are calculated instanataneously, accurately and could give a readout of how every delegate voted on every issue to the membership. Only Local 100 responded in favor of it. None of the other Presidents wanted the membership to have this information. The question is WHY?

 

[TeamTWU]

Well stated CIO, and a Happy Holiday Season to you and yours. The amfa movement at AA has made the TWU stronger and it's a pleasure to belong to such a union. Keep up the good work TWU and looking forward to a better year for the working class.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well stated CIO, and a Happy Holiday Season to you and yours. The amfa movement at AA has made the TWU stronger and it's a pleasure to belong to such a union. Keep up the good work TWU and looking forward to a better year for the working class.

Made the TWU stronger?

Tell us how or is this simply another unsubstantiated statement that you are not willing to back up with any facts?

The fact is AMFA has over 8000 cards and word of the AGW is spreading every day.

Hopefully next year will be a better year for the working class when all the workers at AA oust you guys and form real unions that are willing to teach their members how to fight instead of trying to teach them how to beg.

It is only fitting that our union tries to teach us to beg instead of fight. Promotion through the ranks of the TWU is done by begging, like Bobby Gless did for his position, not by fighting to get the votes and confidence of your peers.

 

[Hackman]

Made the TWU stronger?

Tell us how or is this simply another unsubstatiated statement that you are not willing to back up with any facts?

The fact is AMFA has over 8000 cards and word of the AGW is spreading every day.

Hopefully next year will be a better year for the working class when all the workers at AA oust you guys and form real unions that are willing to teach their members how to fight instead of trying to teach them how to beg.

It is only fitting that our union tries to teach us to beg instead of fight. Promotion through the ranks of the TWU is done by begging, like Bobby Gless did for his position, not by fighting to get the votes and confidence of your peers.

The twu only knows how to fight its own members, as you have whitnessed first hand Bob.

We will have a vote in 2004, the longer the twu has clowns like kirk wells, bobby gless, randy mcdonald, and jim little, AMFA is a shoo in.

We just got more cards friday here at AFW.

The twu is over in 2004!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

Actuallly the truth is a good portion of the members were putting pressure on the Leadership of the TWU to force the Presidents and others to represent the members.


These TWO Individuals choose not to support the members in they're best interest, Therefor were replaced.

A good portion, is that how many were at the bar that night. What is the members best interest? Who the hell are you to decide what is best for me? I believe the 99% of Local 562 members who have signed AMFA cards have decided what is best for them.

 

[Superside]

Well stated CIO, and a Happy Holiday Season to you and yours. The amfa movement at AA has made the TWU stronger and it's a pleasure to belong to such a union. Keep up the good work TWU and looking forward to a better year for the working class.

STRONGER??, OH MY GOD! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING?! You are ignoring the facts. Stronger would mean fewer cards than the previous Drive... Not more!
Get a grip on reality. A better year for the working class??
DESCRIBE WHAT YOUR IDEA OF A "BETTER YEAR" WOULD BE!!
Another year of working under the TWU? Receiving our next scheduled raise(1.5%)?
How about this: "... At least We stll got a J-A-W-B, job Brother!...!)(yes, DRAWL intended)
Give Me a flippin" break!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

STRONGER??, OH MY GOD! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING?! You are ignoring the facts. Stronger would mean fewer cards than the previous Drive... Not more!
Get a grip on reality. A better year for the working class??
DESCRIBE WHAT YOUR IDEA OF A "BETTER YEAR" WOULD BE!!
Another year of working under the TWU? Receiving our next scheduled raise(1.5%)?
How about this: "... At least We stll got a J-A-W-B, job Brother!...!)(yes, DRAWL intended)
Give Me a flippin" break!!!

Stronger?
Let him keep telling you that. I doubt he even believes it thats why he posts under an alias.

Not only does AMFA have more cards than ever but the AGW has started to pick up steam. They now have over 1100 cards. They will need slightly more than we do for an election but they are a brand new organization and they have not yet formed a full network of organizers yet.

I spoke to one of Local 501s shop stewards yesterday about the AGW. He may become an organizer here at JFK.

Right now most of the cards are out of ORD and DFW. Most of the fleet service clerks are where the line mechanics are. The AGW gives us the opportunity to help our fellow employees get a union that offers them the same that we seek for ourselves. To all the line mechanics out there go to www.the-agw-org/Authorization.html, print it out and give it to any of the fleet serice clerks you know. At the very least it opens up a second front for the TWU/ATD!

 

[Rusty]

Well stated CIO, and a Happy Holiday Season to you and yours. The amfa movement at AA has made the TWU stronger and it's a pleasure to belong to such a union. Keep up the good work TWU and looking forward to a better year for the working class.

"the AMFA movement is making the twu stronger"

I would agree with you on one aspect of your point, after all the Strong leadership of AMFA could rub off and create some Strength.

BWAAHAAHA, "better year for the working class"????????????? Get a life, does "better" in your opinion mean getting a 1.5% increase in pay while inflation is 3-4% thus putting real wages down another 1.5 -2.5 per year while at the same time insurance costs to each employee will double year over year????

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The AMFA movement is making the twu stronger is some nice acknowledgement that the twu was weak to begin with. The twu will never become "stronger". Not even if AA injected steroids directly into the arse of the twu. (The twu would have to get out from underneath the company desk first.)

 

[TeamTWU]

I appreciate your positive responses and look forward to your continued support of the TWU at AA. I realize this past drive has sometimes, at your discretion, gone astray from facts, but the TWU welcomes your input and looks forward to continued support from you and the floor.

Best wishes during the Holiday Season.

 

[Hackman]

I appreciate your positive responses and look forward to your continued support of the TWU at AA. I realize this past drive has sometimes, at your discretion, gone astray from facts, but the TWU welcomes your input and looks forward to continued support from you and the floor.

Best wishes during the Holiday Season.

Is this our dues paid PR firm that local 514 hired to dig them out of the hole they are in?

It looks as it Team twu does not know that the floor is fed up with the twu.

The only support they have is from a few twu believers left that are in a union position or held a past union position.

Thanks Team twu, remember: "Continued PR turns twu believers into AMFA advocates".

 

[Superside]

I appreciate your positive responses and look forward to your continued support of the TWU at AA. I realize this past drive has sometimes, at your discretion, gone astray from facts, but the TWU welcomes your input and looks forward to continued support from you and the floor.

Best wishes during the Holiday Season.

YOU IMBECILE!!