Amfa Challenging Twu On The Internet?

[Hackman]

you like to file charges on people you feel inferior to.

What the heck are you stating here? I did not file charges on Cunningham, I confirmed his inability to keep an oath, that is all. And believe me, I never felt inferior to him or anyone else I've met since being at AA. You state I am "so "knowledgeable" on the twu, being in the AA/twu game for what, almost three years, I never stated that, but good roll. I have stated faith in my local, not yours. You misinterput my actions of standing behind my electees and my following the TWU. Local 530 will draw it's own conclusion of the TWU International and then respond as necessary. Having never served as an E-Board member or any position above alternate union steward I would probably be just about the right speed for Dan in a debate. I have no problem there but I doubt it would sell many seats. My only wish is that someday I get to work at AFW and be involved with the obvious knowledge surrounding that area.

You stated members want to be led, to where? A meeting once a month? Good luck. Only when a glitch occurs in their life do they feel the need to get involved, otherwise, it's grab the lunch box and kiss the wife.

You all blame the TWU for your spot in life currently, but the masses voted so live with it. Had we gone BK you would have stated the same, live with it.

Mr connel,

I was mistaken, you did not file charges on Mr. Cunningham, but you supported them by your testomony. This was a second trial for the same charges he was found innocent of the first time. Mr. sunny hall decided since he did not get the verdict in his favor. Send in the twu storm troopers, where you come in steve. Do you not feel a man should have the chance to face his accuser? You seem like the kind of man who would demand it. Mr. sunny hall should have attended Dans' trial, but he is a coward, and refused.

You are passing yourself off a brash twu professor, it's obivous in your rants to Bob Owens. You desparage him for not supporting the twu, yet you have been told the "change from within" is a total failure by someone who has tried.

You faith in your local is faith in the twu international, one and the same. On issues that they deem important, you will tow the line, or else. Obviously, you have not felt the ire of the comrades in New York Mr. connel. You will experiance it at some point if the twu somehow dodges the AMFA bullet, which will hopefully be a "head shot", and terminal. Your locals response to the international? Again, it had better be what they desire. You and your 530 faithfull will get their "mind right", or you will be looking for new 530 officers soon after.

Debate Dan? Yeah, your the right speed all right, Dan loves dotes like you. I will mention it to Dan when I speak to him again you are interested, and see if there is any way it can be arranged. You surmise no one would be interested in a ring side seat? I think it will be a crowd pleaser to say the least. Especially with AMFA guys.

Yes, members need leaders with a shred of integrity that will lead. Something sorely lacking on the twu front. Led To where you ask? Simple steve. Out of the gutter! The twu has put in year after year, contract after contract. Like I said Mr. connel, I will never be involved in the twu as long as they continue as they are, and looks like its worse than ever. I look farward with excitement to the day when I can attend a union meeting with only my class and craft. I'll not have to listen to a twu company unskilled bootlicker tell me how I should vote so he can keep his extraordinary pay. Its the best we could do you pathetic AMT's. We will get 'em next time.

I don't blame anyone for my "spot" in life. Your pathetic "masses voted so live with it" is pure crap. This latest twu sell-out was not even remotely plausible. I thought we were going to revote and tell the company to stick it. I was ready and willing to WALK! However jim little lied again and got down under the AA desk and did what the twu has ALWAYS done...... swallowed with a smile. Then, when the heat came on in the twu kitchen, and people started dissecting just what the F&*$ just happened, jim little comes out with the lie of the century. JEEZ GUYS, I KNOW YOUR UPSET BUT YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND, AA WAS GOING TO CHAPTER 7 LIQUIDATION!!!! I about had to be sedated. I have never heard such a load of BS in my life!!! Right PAST Chapter 11 and into the yard sale!!!! BS, BS, and BS.

Mr. connel, if you don't see this as a wake-up call, please seek professional help. OR..... Strap on that tie you wanted and be a stooge on the management train wreck. You deserve each other. :down:

 

[Steve Connell]

Well Hackman, fact is, management is a must, if you feel all management are stooge on the management train wreck then why are you still working there man? Shows a bit of your self drive initiative.

Speak to Dan all you want, I could care less. amfa could not afford my debate fee as my time wasted on trivial people is high. Also anyone debating with Cunningham would be giving creedance to his ramblings, not me. But your desire to debate a man with no more than alt. steward under his belt does seem to be a way to get your amfa movement a lift. While Schiable, Stewart, and Cunningham were in town I spoke/debated with them for hours, I was not enlightened with them as I'm sure they were not with me, so what's your point?

As I understand, and if I'm wrong here I apologize, Mr. Cunningham's first trial was a mock trial put on by Schiable and his cronies. I heard they all got dressed up in their alter egos and attempted to make a farce out of the TWU's proceedings. Or do you see this as acceptable?

I can guarantee you Hack, that if our local turns aside from the international it will be due to local concerns and they will take what means necessary to rectify. The officers that the TWU has ousted are the ones found to be holding dual unionship, having differences of opinion and being upset with the international was not the reason for their removal.

 

[Bob Owens]

As I understand, and if I'm wrong here I apologize, Mr. Cunningham's first trial was a mock trial put on by Schiable and his cronies. I heard they all got dressed up in their alter egos and attempted to make a farce out of the TWU's proceedings. Or do you see this as acceptable?

The officers that the TWU has ousted are the ones found to be holding dual unionship, having differences of opinion and being upset with the international was not the reason for their removal.

The fact is you are wrong, again. Apology accepted.

Why was Cunninghams first trial a Mock trial? Because he was tried by his peers and found innocent? Ever hear of double jepordy??

Is it better to have a "trial", more like inquisition, where your accusor picks three of his hacks who go there with a predetermined verdict? A "trial" where the accused has no right to face their accusor. A "trial" where the board conducts the prosecutions re-cross examination? Let me ask you something, what is Sonny Halls conviction rate? Sonny would never use his Kangaroo Courts for political retribution now would he. Try asking the Federal Government who said that he had a long history of doing just that.

The fact is Steve you have only been involved in this union for three years. You admit that you know little about it yet you try to defend it against those who have been in it for many years and know exactly what it is all about.

The fact is that the International did not prove, or even attempt to prove dual unionism in either Schalks trial or mine. They removed officers who had differing opinions. They removed Schalk for not signing a letter to his members that he did not write and they removed me for posting criticisms of the TWU-ATD leadership and the concessionary contract that they put in place "without further ratification".

The fact is you know nothing of what went on with Sonny Halls Kangaroo courts.

The facts are that the TWU has consistantly given AA a competative edge as far as labor costs. This competative edge helped push EAL out of businesss, Pan Am out of business and yes even your beloved TWA out of business. While your unions were dealing with real financial crisis' the TWU was granting AA Industry leading concessions even when the company was making record profits. Do you get it yet?

 

[Hackman]

Well Hackman, fact is, management is a must, if you feel all management are stooge on the management train wreck then why are you still working there man? Shows a bit of your self drive initiative.

Speak to Dan all you want, I could care less. amfa could not afford my debate fee as my time wasted on trivial people is high. Also anyone debating with Cunningham would be giving creedance to his ramblings, not me. But your desire to debate a man with no more than alt. steward under his belt does seem to be a way to get your amfa movement a lift. While Schiable, Stewart, and Cunningham were in town I spoke/debated with them for hours, I was not enlightened with them as I'm sure they were not with me, so what's your point?

As I understand, and if I'm wrong here I apologize, Mr. Cunningham's first trial was a mock trial put on by Schiable and his cronies. I heard they all got dressed up in their alter egos and attempted to make a farce out of the TWU's proceedings. Or do you see this as acceptable?

I can guarantee you Hack, that if our local turns aside from the international it will be due to local concerns and they will take what means necessary to rectify. The officers that the TWU has ousted are the ones found to be holding dual unionship, having differences of opinion and being upset with the international was not the reason for their removal.

Yes Mr. connel, management is a must, and not all of them are stooges, but the ones that seem to rise above supervisor almost always are, at least here at AA. My "self drive initiative" is to see my profession get the rewards we deserve, and unlike you, I will not walk away and dive into management to save my ass.

Who said your getting a debate fee? Your thinking like the twu now steve. Do this favor pro-bono for your loyalty to the company and the twu. They need someone like you to come to their defense. I can assure you Dan will debate you for the satisfaction alone. You are incorrect on Dans' union status when he was ousted for life from the twu. he was an E-board officer, not an alt steward. My point to all of this is you take the twu side, being as I see it, a FNG to AA. You know little about the twu and their sad history with AA. You spew your wisdom to people who have been at AA for many years, here on this BB and others. I figured a debate with someone like Company Man Dan would be an intresting. Why? To show how wrong and distorted you are.

You are wrong.... again. Dans trial was put on by the kangaroo division of the twu. I can assure you Dan had better things to do. Mr kirk wells and other local 514 lackeys were the ones that forced this trial, and again they lost. That was not right with the international, so trial two went down, as you know. The first trial was capped off by the self-appointed Local 567 VP/ attorney, matt "endo" lorenzi. If anyone made a mockery of the twu, it was matt.

My last comment to you Mr. connel is this. Speak out against the twu international and see what happens. Go ahead, piss them off, stir the pot and see what I mean. This is not the iam. You have alot to learn, and learn you will. Good night.

 

[Steve Connell]

The fact is Steve you have only been involved in this union for three years. You admit that you know little about it yet you try to defend it against those who have been in it for many years and know exactly what it is all about

And yet you want to debate here with me? Shows a bit of your intelligence level Bob, if I were you I wouldn't even have responded to a guy with 3 yrs., of course, with your obvious addiction to typing ramblings I see your dilema...and I do know the truth about Cunningham's trial so type whatever you desire and spin as you like, it will not change the ending.

 

[Bob Owens]

And yet you want to debate here with me? Shows a bit of your intelligence level Bob, if I were you I wouldn't even have responded to a guy with 3 yrs., of course, with your obvious addiction to typing ramblings I see your dilema...and I do know the truth about Cunningham's trial so type whatever you desire and spin as you like, it will not change the ending.

So what are you saying?

That because you are misinformed that I should say nothing and allow you to spread your misinformation unchecked? Now that would be dumb, because in the end we all suffer.

 

[Steve Connell]

So you are stating Bob that Cunningham's first trial did not look like a Halloween party gone bad with Schiable in drag?

 

[Bob Owens]

So you are stating Bob that Cunningham's first trial did not look like a Halloween party gone bad with Schiable in drag?

Why would I state that? I was not there. However neither was Sonny Hall and he was the one pressing the charges. Instead he sent three hand picked goons to render a pre-determined judgement, how do I know that? Because thats the way Sonny Hall runs this union.

 

[Checking it Out]

Dan Cunningham and Bob Owens deserved what they received. The trials were done per the Constitution and the results were the same. The majority of the TWU members were getting tired of these self interest elected officers advocating the withdrawl from the TWU while collecting Pay from the Union.

If either one of them had any morals or ethics they would have taken it apon themselfs and done the honorable thing and resigned. But it is obvious neither have the caliber it takes to do the honorable thing so the Constitution was enforced.

We the majority of the TWU favored this avenue. The International did the right thing. No different than amfa or any other organization.

 

[TWU informer]

Dan Cunningham and Bob Owens deserved what they received. The trials were done per the Constitution and the results were the same. The majority of the TWU members were getting tired of these self interest elected officers advocating the withdrawl from the TWU while collecting Pay from the Union.

CIO,

Do you have any proof that this is what the "majority of the TWU members" wanted? Your local seems to not like other locals making decisions for 514 members. Did Local 562 take a vote on Bob Owens?

I don't remember the vote. <_<

At what meeting did this vote happen?

Or was this another "without further ratification" decision and you just claim that the majority had spoken? You sure seem to speak for everone else alot, do you have their permission, or a crystal ball? That is kind of like our TWU lobbyist telling politicians what "WE" think, also.


Based on your posted beliefs and ideas in this public forum, I would prefer you let me speak for myself if you don't mind?

 

[Rusty]

CIO, you must have a turd in your pocket with that "we" stuff. In your world "we" means the international officers and you. Under AMFA "we" means the membership. Don't worry though "we" the membership are going to fix that soon enough.

 

[Hackman]

So you are stating Bob that Cunningham's first trial did not look like a Halloween party gone bad with Schiable in drag?

Mr. connel,

I was at the trial earl, and the only thing dragging was matt "endo" lorenzis' ass and a few of 514 lackeys (rick mullins, kirky wells, and some twu farm boy that can't remember his name) lips when they piled into the twu bus. They didn't even stick around for the burgers! (the twu lackies eat the hotdogs, since they're use to getting the weiner, must have been the reason).

Attorney "endo" lorenzi went crying to sunny COWARD hall that Dan and the AMFA guys don't play nice, and daddy took care of him with a fifth of vodka and the second kangaroo court (which you flew down for on UB, right earl?). However, the twu refused to give Company Man Dan UB pay for his time, and of course it was held during working hours on a weekday. Dan wrote the twu a love letter, which sunny COWARD hall used to banish Company Man Dan for life (what an honor). Dan was correct to not attend the second kangaroo court since the outcome was aready predetermined from the start. Why waste the time with a dead industrial union on it way out the door?

 

[Bob Owens]

Dan Cunningham and Bob Owens deserved what they received. The trials were done per the Constitution and the results were the same. The majority of the TWU members were getting tired of these self interest elected officers advocating the withdrawl from the TWU while collecting Pay from the Union.

If either one of them had any morals or ethics they would have taken it apon themselfs and done the honorable thing and resigned. But it is obvious neither have the caliber it takes to do the honorable thing so the Constitution was enforced.

We the majority of the TWU favored this avenue. The International did the right thing. No different than amfa or any other organization.

I'd like to add a few comments.

If in fact the trial was done per the Constitution then that in itself is another reason why we must get rid of the TWU.

Who ever heard of allowing the accuser to pick the Prosecutor, Judge and Jury? Well that’s what Sonny did. He picked three of his SUBORDINATES to render judgment. Well under those conditions, commonly referred to as a "Kangaroo Court" once Sonny accuses they are automatically guilty. The fact is that the prosecution proved nothing. When I questioned Hubert Snead about his verdict he lied and stumbled all over himself. If you would like a copy of the transcripts let me know. “I gots to say you never said merge, oh no, you never did says mergeâ€. (It’s in the transcript dummy.)

Normally the accused have the right to face their accuser. But Sonny was too much of a coward to face either one of us. He is a disgrace. We were denied this common right. Another example that proves that in the TWU, justice and jurus prudence, common traits to Democracy does not exist. And why should they? The TWU is no more Democratic than the old politburo of the old USSR. Roger Tausts influence no doubt. The fact that Sonny lacked the courage to come to me face to face in his own Kangaroo court and say, "This is what you did" shows that he is a man of no character, no morals and no ethics.

The pay that I collected was from Local 562 not from the International. The members of Local 562 elected me and I did what they wanted me to do. That is what a representative is supposed to do. We are not there to suck up to Hall in order to try and get an International spot like Burchette, Gless and Yingst.


When you say "we the majority of the TWU" who do you mean? Tulsa? Are you saying that since you are the majority that you have the right to have other local’s representatives removed? Besides Local 514 is not the majority of the TWU, you guys are not even close to being as big as Local 100 who has nearly as many members as the entire ATD. You guys are really full of yourselves, or is it selfs?

The fact is I was never confident in the ability of the TWU/ATD; so I did what people like you used to say- don’t complain, get involved". I learned a lot, and what I saw only made my perception worse. It only made me more determined to try and fix this union. That’s why I hooked up with Local 100. They were a shining example of what an industrial union should be.

I made it clear from the beginning that I advocated change. After twenty years of decline something has to be done.

Its clear that the TWU/ATD and Sonny Hall could care less about our, or any other member’s wages or our careers, they just want to keep the dues flowing. They need the dues to pay their excessive salaries and outrageous perks. You should have seen that worm Sonny squirm as I looked at his luxurious office on Broadway. $9 from every member so he can act like some executive of a fortune 500 company. (Oh by the way every member is invited up to the office on Thanksgiving to watch the parade, Sonny said so) Then there are the cars, another $3.45 per member. They are the most corrupt, ineffective organization in labor. And it all centers around the biggest crook of them all, Sonny Hall.

Wherever you go in this industry you will find that the lowest paid union members are TWU. From AA mechanics, to eagle mechanics to SWA flight attendants, Swissport and Worldwide baggage handlers the list goes on. The TWU gives labor awards to management officials that call the police on the local if their reps go on the property. The TWU has retirement parties for their top officials with more members of management in attendance, some actually crying to see the guy retire, than union members-Koziatek. They promote those who are incompetent and cant get reelected-Gless. The TWU will ruthlessly fight other unions but submit to every whim of the employer. They write language that they have no intention on enforcing-Charlotte, force majeure, or change when the company wants them to-3/1/01 system seniority. They even allow management officials to remain members of the IAC! So they will bounce out officers who they suspect are supporting another union, without proof but allow management to remain on the IEC! Goes to show you that they look at other unions as the enemy but management as brothers.

Sonny Hall has tried to sabotage every move that Local 100 has made to get better benefits, wages and working conditions for their members. Under Sonny Halls leadership at Local 100 the members lost ground in wages and valuable benefits. Sonny has never seen a concession he did not like. Under his direction benefits are negotiated away so he can get a kickback from the insurance company by selling you the benefits he negotiated away. He sold property of the Local at grossly undervalued prices which are then flipped for millions more within weeks, do you think any of that helped pay for his estate in exclusive Sag Harbor Long Island (Singer Billy Joel also lives there)? Who knows how much he pockets on the turnover in cars, they spent $345,000 on cars but only sold, if I remember, $20,000 worth, if it was that much.

So now I am no longer in a position to push for change from within. So I will push for change from the outside. I will help to get AMFA on the property, but I will not desert the stock clerks and other workers, I will help out with the AGW drive too.

When we are successful at getting AMFA and the AGW we will also help fix the TWU. By leaving with over 1/3 of the membership Local 100 will be the majority. They will flush all the crooks and incompetents out of the International. They will be able to make it Democratic and accountable.

Since the idea of merging the AFL-CIO ATDs will never happen, even though Sonny Hall, John Sweeney, and every union person I've spoken to claimed they liked the idea that leaves me only one course to try and get as close as possible to the same result. As one rep from the AFL-CIO even agreed, in order to fix this mess we will have to leave the TWU, IAM and IBT and then try to either merge or form a co-op, then rejoin the AFL-CIO.

The fact is that the labor movement has needed this for a long time. As Thomas Jefferson said, "A little (not to be confused with Jim Little) revolution is a good thing now and then". Many unions are nearly as bad as the TWU where top officials, no matter how incompetent they are, are only usually removed from office by death or indictment. Conventions are a sham. Union officials seek office not out of ideals but as means of escaping the floor. Once off the floor the next goal is either the International or management. How many times have you seen that?

You say that I have no Morals or ethics, as compared to whom? Dennis Burchette who beats his wife and sleeps with friend’s wives and girlfriends-fine example of TWU morals and ethics. Gless is pretty much the same, and what is with that $105,000 a year secretary that follows Sonny around all over the country? I've never seen his wife but I've seen her all over the place, even in pictures in the TWU express. Is she paid that much because of her typing skills? $105,000 PER YEAR!!!

I would like to say to all my fellow mechanics out there, especially in the line stations where just about everyone has already filled out an AMFA card to go to the AGW website at http://www.the-agw.org/american.html, print up authorization cards and tell anyone you know in Stores and Fleet service about it. Do it because it’s the right thing to do. Do it because we allowed the TWU to turn us against each other, and as a result we both lost. Do it because when we get to AMFA it cant hurt to have friends in other departments. Do it just to cause more agita for the International. Do it because it opens up a second front and will pull resources away from fighting AMFA. Do it because although we want accountability and control over our careers we wish no harm to other working people and harm is what the TWU/ATD will continue to do to them and their families. The effort would be minimal on our part, the effect could be revolutionary!

 

[Hackman]

Dan Cunningham and Bob Owens deserved what they received. The trials were done per the Constitution and the results were the same. The majority of the TWU members were getting tired of these self interest elected officers advocating the withdrawl from the TWU while collecting Pay from the Union.

If either one of them had any morals or ethics they would have taken it apon themselfs and done the honorable thing and resigned. But it is obvious neither have the caliber it takes to do the honorable thing so the Constitution was enforced.

We the majority of the TWU favored this avenue. The International did the right thing. No different than amfa or any other organization.

cio,

Typical of a twu lackeys cowardice, if the you don't like the verdict the first time make up an excuse to try the man again (lorenzi made the excuse of, "uhh, I was too drunk to prepare my case sunny"). What the twu members are tired of cio is your lack of representation and the blundering communist strong-arm tatics of your failing union.

Morals and ethics? YOU are talking morals and ethics cio? I do not think you want to go there moron. Your twu 514 is the one of the most vile, despicable excuses for a local the industrail unions have known......bar none. You fit right in.

The truth is cio, the majority are ready to kick your sorry twu asses down the road.

Keep your eyes and ears closed, so you won't see or hear the AMFA freight train when it mows you down.

 

[TWU informer]

Mr. Owens,

WOW, does your blood pressure rise when you type that information as much as mine rises when I read it?

The TWU is a pathetic Communistic control or should I say out-of-control union.

And to think, we were all once TWU supporters?

I think those fools down in Tulsa are being deprived on information. How could anybody read the facts and not see change is needed?

CIO is obviously married to an E-board member.

I think there are even some pictures of him in Philly attending an AMFA meeting for USAirways mechanics.

Bob, if nobody has told you of late. Thanks for the job both you and Chuck did while holding office. I was just a supporter of change for the mechanics, now I think we should help all working men and women at AA to be relieved of TWU representation.

Flight Attendents First - 1974
Dispathcers Second - December 2003
Mechanics Third - Mid 2004
Fleet and Stores - Early 2005
Meterologist - default OUTSOURCED JOBS

And we shouldn't forget,
Bus Drivers - Shortly after next Communist Convention