Bob. keep your letters, they are of no use to me and a positive influence to your ego I'm sure.
So dont read them
Listing boycotts? How many members currently do you think even know how to find the list?
Once again TEAM- TWUs high esteem for the members shows through.
We need education Bob, as every union does. Without this knowledge we'll never realize a true solidarity.
OK, and what is the TWU doing about it with their millions of dollars (of our money)and vast resources?
It supports the facade that the International is pro-worker instead of just pro-dues, really Bob, that's an unsupported accusation praying upon those that read your ramblings.
That is my opinion based upon my observations and experiences. I believe that I have put forward motive and facts that support that opinion such as the fact that while our compensation has been in a continued overall decline for twenty years the TWUs AA membership has nearly tripled, greatly offsetting the loss of real dues per member.
Are you, the AMFA, prepared to be put under a microscope as you have the TWU?
Comparing contracts over the last twenty years and reviewing LM-2s is not exactly being put under a microscope. Being put under a microscope is hiring an accountant to spend four months sifting though reciepts of the local as the TWU International has been doing at Local 562 since September.
Are you Bob prepared to explain to the members why you only "did what was possible using what was possible
Could you be more specific?
or will you lead them into the 24% unemployed, telling them and their hungry families that " when you return it will be at full benefits and pay".
Come on now. If our language said that the work was ours and they could not contract it out then the only way they could lay them off is to cut service, and lose market share. Thats what this was all about. AA is using this to obtain even more market share, and we are funding it.
"Are you guaranteeing the card signers that if AMFA prevails all will change, the outsourcing will stop, the eating away of our benefits package will cease?
No. All that we can promise is that by joining AMFA they will be joining in with other mechanics to form a union that mechanics have control over. We can promise that this union will be committed to getting all the mechanics in the industry in this same union and that its goal will be for better pay and recognition for the profession.
Mechanics have no control over the International. The International owns the contract, not the mechanics, and the International is not accountable to the mechanics. We did not pick Jim Little or Gary Yingst or Bobby Gless nor can we remove any of them. With AMFA mechanics will determine who is in control of the union and our contracts.
Have you looked around the US of A lately Bob, and witnessed the outsourcing being led by the corporations. Or do you blame this action on the TWU alone?
Yes I have. And I have failed to see the Unions do anything about it. We supposedly have this great AFL-CIO but other than lobbying this umbrella organization doesnt seem to be coordinating many cooperative actions between the unions and their members. I often see the NYC AFL-CIO CLC get out there but thats it. There should be thousands of union members outside all those Supermarkets in California. Giant Rats in front of every Walmart Store, demonstrations on the steps of the Capital but what do we get instead? "The members dont participate". Well when was the last time the members were informed and led to do anything?The hypocritical comments of union leaders who get paid to attend meetings and then complain about the lack of turnout doesnt help either. If the members should just know what they should do and do it then why have leaders? What proactive actions have the leaders called for? I've written to Little on several occasions calling for more action, he blames it on the AFL-CIO, when I contact them they say "fine, but your Union has to bring it forward". (If you want the E-mails let me know). So as they pass the buck back and forth the working people of this country are taking it in the shorts. If anyone criticizes the leaders or calls for change they are removed from office.
"You speak of OSM's as if they are a disease in our midst. Last I looked they were competant mechanics doing what they had to to support their families until the health of the company turns around. "
They are not the disease, the disease is that the union feels that the work that they do is worth less. I see guys who should be making more, making less. They are competant mechanics who should be paid as such. Granted this work may not be as demanding as other assignments but years ago they provided a place where older guys who were no longer able to crawl in and out of all the nooks and crannies of an airplane could go until they are ready to retire. What ever happened to the Industrial Union Credo of "a loaf of bread costs me the same as it does him"? The feeling that I am getting is that you are not an Industrial Unionist at all even though you are defending the TWU. Well thats understandable, you come across as a company man defending a company union. Thats not name calling, its just how I'm interpreting your positions.
Already making excuses here Bob?
Not at all, continue reading the statement. It is an honest opinion put forth to inform people of what to expect.
"Listen Bob, enjoy the Holiday Season with your family as I will mine, and give this some true thought, what can AMFA do different that effects the memberships more than the TWU, and please, the voting out of officers is lame and not what I'm looking for here."
While I will be home I dont know how enjoyable it will be since a virus has knocked three out of five us out, including myself. Trust me I have given it a lot of thought and what I see is that we need to consolidate the labor movement and make the top dogs more accountable. Having guys that sit back, collecting six figure salaries blaming the members for their failure to lead is unacceptable. We can no longer afford it.
The fact is that with seperate Locals, seperate contracts and seperate negotiations we are no longer a functioning Industrial Union. We are an Industrial union in name only. Every group came away from the 2001 negotiations with different increases. We are not a craft union either. The only definition that accuately reflects what the TWU/ATD is at AA is a Business Union.
I suggest that you just consider for a minute that maybe its not all the members fault like the International says. That perhaps it is only partially the members fault. Perhaps its not all the Internationals fault either. Perhaps a lot of the fault lies in the very structure, as you said "did what was possible using what was possible". Well the International, who has the ability to change the structure will not do so, they are comfortably compensated and blaming the membership provides them the excuse to do nothing.
You have often cited that the members should get involved but even you have to admit that their involvement as members is pretty much limited to spectatorship. They can not vote on who determines their contract, and no matter how you spin it the fact is the contract is the property of the International, not the members and not the locals.
The fact is that we can not change the members, but we can change the leaders and the structure if we go to AMFA. If we stay with the TWU the only option is to try and change the membership. Why bother with such a futile effort if that is only a partial cause? Then again who says that there really is anything wrong with the membership? Where have they failed? It still wont fix the leadsership or the structure. Changing two out of three of the internal causes of our decline increases the chance for success, it also increases the chance that more members will participate simply because its something new. I agree that there are external components also but right now we are looking at the problem between the membership and the organization.
I think that we can agree that a continued decline in our standard of living is unacceptable. I think we can agree that this is what is taking place. Where we apparently disagree are what the controlable causes are. You say its the members,end of story.
I say that its a combination of three things. First and foremost is the structure.
The structural flaws can be itemized into two major dimensions, internal, within the union, and external, which I'll limit to within the industry.
As far as internal and since I've covered this before I will cut it down to "the lack of democracy and accountability of the union, specifically the lack of membership control over the International and the rules governing it." This leaves the members feeling powerless and further discourages participation. Its not so much who gets put in power but how the members percieve that they get put in power and how much input they feel they have. If they feel that they had a say they are more likely to show support. On this point AMFA is radically different from the TWU. Members get direct votes on top officers.
Externally our structure is flawed because airports should be looked at as basically one job site or industrial center. To use the history of the TWU to make the point, when Mike Quill came into the Industry the NYC Mass TRansit system was a patchwork of companies represented by an array of unions all undercutting each other while providing basically the same service. Quill fought to get all the workers of the industry into one union as it was obvious that as long as unions were tied to specific companies that competed with other companies represented by other unions that the relationship between the union and the company becomes symbiotic where in the end the members lose. Each union was powerless and dependant upon the employer in that the weakest link largely determined what everyone else could get. Mike Quill set out to build an Industrial union to represent the entire NYC Mass Transit Industry, and he did it. Compared to the old structure where transit workers were spilt up among many different companies in many different unions, some of them company unions, the TWU was a huge improvement. That Union, which today is Local 100 is well on its way to rebuiding after 30 years of mismanagement (some of which was under Sonny Hall) and has regained its position as one of the most powerful, respected unions around thanks to the leadership of the militant Rojer Toussaint. In this case the structure was okay-the whole industry in one union( as a matter of fact Sonny Hall tried to weaken the structure by splitting off the Queens Bus Drivers but they reject him), the membership was essentially the same, but the leadsership was changed. The result has been more participation by the members and improvements for the members.
The Airline Industry is essentailly a much larger version of the NYC Mass Transit system. But unlike the mass transit system of today, which eventually consolidated, as the airline industry continues to do, we are still divided up between many different companies, each with many different unions that in turn are often partially divied up again along class and craft lines. There is no continuity. No means of identity. No means to coordinate an industrywide labor effort. The result is that the weakest link union, in an effort to preserve, or in the case of the TWU, expand, its dues base drives down labor costs across the entire industry.
Do we identify with our union, like many other union members do-both industrial and craft? No-we identify ourselves as an employee of a particular company. Compare this to real industrail unions or craft unions. Ask an electrician or a carpenter to identify themselves and they will tell you that they are a Local X Electrician or Carpenter. Ask a longshoreman and he will tell you what local they work out of, Airline workers never Identify themselves as a TWU aircraft mechanic or baggage handler.
The flaw with this structure is the workers become vulnerable to and totally dependant upon management. If the union sees cooperation with the company as the best-and pretty much only- means of expanding their dues base by facilitating expansion though lower labor costs, combined with the effect that the top people in the union will never be held accountable, the members are put in an extremly poor position to improve their lives.
We need change. All the members are not going to change, besides the leaders have never been clear and specific as to how the members should change. They only throw out very general terms such as "participate". They get paid to attend functions then complain that members who are not getting paid, who have to work second jobs to get by dont participate. The leaders of the unions in place, including the TWU, are not going to change either, just as the unions that preceeded Local 100 refused to change. "Its not our fault guys", "you guys voted for it" and "if you want change ,participate" probably came out of the leaders of those incompetant, ineffective unions too. THe fact is that the only option for real change, admittedly without guarantees, is to get elections for AMFA and the AGW and at least try to get unions where everyone who does the same job that you do is in the same union. Its the only option out there for realistic Industrywide Solidarity. And Industrywide Solidarity is exactly what is needed to fight the coordinated attacks upon our livelyhood by the industy and the government.
So dont read them
Listing boycotts? How many members currently do you think even know how to find the list?
Once again TEAM- TWUs high esteem for the members shows through.
We need education Bob, as every union does. Without this knowledge we'll never realize a true solidarity.
OK, and what is the TWU doing about it with their millions of dollars (of our money)and vast resources?
It supports the facade that the International is pro-worker instead of just pro-dues, really Bob, that's an unsupported accusation praying upon those that read your ramblings.
That is my opinion based upon my observations and experiences. I believe that I have put forward motive and facts that support that opinion such as the fact that while our compensation has been in a continued overall decline for twenty years the TWUs AA membership has nearly tripled, greatly offsetting the loss of real dues per member.
Are you, the AMFA, prepared to be put under a microscope as you have the TWU?
Comparing contracts over the last twenty years and reviewing LM-2s is not exactly being put under a microscope. Being put under a microscope is hiring an accountant to spend four months sifting though reciepts of the local as the TWU International has been doing at Local 562 since September.
Are you Bob prepared to explain to the members why you only "did what was possible using what was possible
Could you be more specific?
or will you lead them into the 24% unemployed, telling them and their hungry families that " when you return it will be at full benefits and pay".
Come on now. If our language said that the work was ours and they could not contract it out then the only way they could lay them off is to cut service, and lose market share. Thats what this was all about. AA is using this to obtain even more market share, and we are funding it.
"Are you guaranteeing the card signers that if AMFA prevails all will change, the outsourcing will stop, the eating away of our benefits package will cease?
No. All that we can promise is that by joining AMFA they will be joining in with other mechanics to form a union that mechanics have control over. We can promise that this union will be committed to getting all the mechanics in the industry in this same union and that its goal will be for better pay and recognition for the profession.
Mechanics have no control over the International. The International owns the contract, not the mechanics, and the International is not accountable to the mechanics. We did not pick Jim Little or Gary Yingst or Bobby Gless nor can we remove any of them. With AMFA mechanics will determine who is in control of the union and our contracts.
Have you looked around the US of A lately Bob, and witnessed the outsourcing being led by the corporations. Or do you blame this action on the TWU alone?
Yes I have. And I have failed to see the Unions do anything about it. We supposedly have this great AFL-CIO but other than lobbying this umbrella organization doesnt seem to be coordinating many cooperative actions between the unions and their members. I often see the NYC AFL-CIO CLC get out there but thats it. There should be thousands of union members outside all those Supermarkets in California. Giant Rats in front of every Walmart Store, demonstrations on the steps of the Capital but what do we get instead? "The members dont participate". Well when was the last time the members were informed and led to do anything?The hypocritical comments of union leaders who get paid to attend meetings and then complain about the lack of turnout doesnt help either. If the members should just know what they should do and do it then why have leaders? What proactive actions have the leaders called for? I've written to Little on several occasions calling for more action, he blames it on the AFL-CIO, when I contact them they say "fine, but your Union has to bring it forward". (If you want the E-mails let me know). So as they pass the buck back and forth the working people of this country are taking it in the shorts. If anyone criticizes the leaders or calls for change they are removed from office.
"You speak of OSM's as if they are a disease in our midst. Last I looked they were competant mechanics doing what they had to to support their families until the health of the company turns around. "
They are not the disease, the disease is that the union feels that the work that they do is worth less. I see guys who should be making more, making less. They are competant mechanics who should be paid as such. Granted this work may not be as demanding as other assignments but years ago they provided a place where older guys who were no longer able to crawl in and out of all the nooks and crannies of an airplane could go until they are ready to retire. What ever happened to the Industrial Union Credo of "a loaf of bread costs me the same as it does him"? The feeling that I am getting is that you are not an Industrial Unionist at all even though you are defending the TWU. Well thats understandable, you come across as a company man defending a company union. Thats not name calling, its just how I'm interpreting your positions.
Already making excuses here Bob?
Not at all, continue reading the statement. It is an honest opinion put forth to inform people of what to expect.
"Listen Bob, enjoy the Holiday Season with your family as I will mine, and give this some true thought, what can AMFA do different that effects the memberships more than the TWU, and please, the voting out of officers is lame and not what I'm looking for here."
While I will be home I dont know how enjoyable it will be since a virus has knocked three out of five us out, including myself. Trust me I have given it a lot of thought and what I see is that we need to consolidate the labor movement and make the top dogs more accountable. Having guys that sit back, collecting six figure salaries blaming the members for their failure to lead is unacceptable. We can no longer afford it.
The fact is that with seperate Locals, seperate contracts and seperate negotiations we are no longer a functioning Industrial Union. We are an Industrial union in name only. Every group came away from the 2001 negotiations with different increases. We are not a craft union either. The only definition that accuately reflects what the TWU/ATD is at AA is a Business Union.
I suggest that you just consider for a minute that maybe its not all the members fault like the International says. That perhaps it is only partially the members fault. Perhaps its not all the Internationals fault either. Perhaps a lot of the fault lies in the very structure, as you said "did what was possible using what was possible". Well the International, who has the ability to change the structure will not do so, they are comfortably compensated and blaming the membership provides them the excuse to do nothing.
You have often cited that the members should get involved but even you have to admit that their involvement as members is pretty much limited to spectatorship. They can not vote on who determines their contract, and no matter how you spin it the fact is the contract is the property of the International, not the members and not the locals.
The fact is that we can not change the members, but we can change the leaders and the structure if we go to AMFA. If we stay with the TWU the only option is to try and change the membership. Why bother with such a futile effort if that is only a partial cause? Then again who says that there really is anything wrong with the membership? Where have they failed? It still wont fix the leadsership or the structure. Changing two out of three of the internal causes of our decline increases the chance for success, it also increases the chance that more members will participate simply because its something new. I agree that there are external components also but right now we are looking at the problem between the membership and the organization.
I think that we can agree that a continued decline in our standard of living is unacceptable. I think we can agree that this is what is taking place. Where we apparently disagree are what the controlable causes are. You say its the members,end of story.
I say that its a combination of three things. First and foremost is the structure.
The structural flaws can be itemized into two major dimensions, internal, within the union, and external, which I'll limit to within the industry.
As far as internal and since I've covered this before I will cut it down to "the lack of democracy and accountability of the union, specifically the lack of membership control over the International and the rules governing it." This leaves the members feeling powerless and further discourages participation. Its not so much who gets put in power but how the members percieve that they get put in power and how much input they feel they have. If they feel that they had a say they are more likely to show support. On this point AMFA is radically different from the TWU. Members get direct votes on top officers.
Externally our structure is flawed because airports should be looked at as basically one job site or industrial center. To use the history of the TWU to make the point, when Mike Quill came into the Industry the NYC Mass TRansit system was a patchwork of companies represented by an array of unions all undercutting each other while providing basically the same service. Quill fought to get all the workers of the industry into one union as it was obvious that as long as unions were tied to specific companies that competed with other companies represented by other unions that the relationship between the union and the company becomes symbiotic where in the end the members lose. Each union was powerless and dependant upon the employer in that the weakest link largely determined what everyone else could get. Mike Quill set out to build an Industrial union to represent the entire NYC Mass Transit Industry, and he did it. Compared to the old structure where transit workers were spilt up among many different companies in many different unions, some of them company unions, the TWU was a huge improvement. That Union, which today is Local 100 is well on its way to rebuiding after 30 years of mismanagement (some of which was under Sonny Hall) and has regained its position as one of the most powerful, respected unions around thanks to the leadership of the militant Rojer Toussaint. In this case the structure was okay-the whole industry in one union( as a matter of fact Sonny Hall tried to weaken the structure by splitting off the Queens Bus Drivers but they reject him), the membership was essentially the same, but the leadsership was changed. The result has been more participation by the members and improvements for the members.
The Airline Industry is essentailly a much larger version of the NYC Mass Transit system. But unlike the mass transit system of today, which eventually consolidated, as the airline industry continues to do, we are still divided up between many different companies, each with many different unions that in turn are often partially divied up again along class and craft lines. There is no continuity. No means of identity. No means to coordinate an industrywide labor effort. The result is that the weakest link union, in an effort to preserve, or in the case of the TWU, expand, its dues base drives down labor costs across the entire industry.
Do we identify with our union, like many other union members do-both industrial and craft? No-we identify ourselves as an employee of a particular company. Compare this to real industrail unions or craft unions. Ask an electrician or a carpenter to identify themselves and they will tell you that they are a Local X Electrician or Carpenter. Ask a longshoreman and he will tell you what local they work out of, Airline workers never Identify themselves as a TWU aircraft mechanic or baggage handler.
The flaw with this structure is the workers become vulnerable to and totally dependant upon management. If the union sees cooperation with the company as the best-and pretty much only- means of expanding their dues base by facilitating expansion though lower labor costs, combined with the effect that the top people in the union will never be held accountable, the members are put in an extremly poor position to improve their lives.
We need change. All the members are not going to change, besides the leaders have never been clear and specific as to how the members should change. They only throw out very general terms such as "participate". They get paid to attend functions then complain that members who are not getting paid, who have to work second jobs to get by dont participate. The leaders of the unions in place, including the TWU, are not going to change either, just as the unions that preceeded Local 100 refused to change. "Its not our fault guys", "you guys voted for it" and "if you want change ,participate" probably came out of the leaders of those incompetant, ineffective unions too. THe fact is that the only option for real change, admittedly without guarantees, is to get elections for AMFA and the AGW and at least try to get unions where everyone who does the same job that you do is in the same union. Its the only option out there for realistic Industrywide Solidarity. And Industrywide Solidarity is exactly what is needed to fight the coordinated attacks upon our livelyhood by the industy and the government.
UAL_TECH
