My view on Senate hearing on US Airways pension problem

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

[blockquote]
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On 1/16/2003 1128 AM chipmunn wrote:

Dio:

Dio said: The company will force this upon you, BECAUSE THEY CAN.

Chip answers: ALPA & I agree with your comments; however, what I am hearing from most of the people I talk with, both on the MEC and within the rank-and-file is "enough is enough" because people believe Dave Siegel "torpedoed" the legislative effort, whether he did it accidentally or intentionally, by telling the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee he had an "alternative" plan.

You should have been in the room like I was, and heard the private ALPA conversations. Virtually all of the ALPA members present believe Siegel may have sabotaged the legislative effort and his comments should have been discussed behind closed doors, not in a public never mind a congressional forum.

The pilots are very, very angry and if the company distress terminates the pilot pension plan, especially if they do not do it to other labor groups, you could see a very unpleasant relationship exist on this property that will effect every employee.

Regardless, this issue will undoubtedly be addressed in court today and maybe we'll find out more.

Chip
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[/blockquote]
Hopefully, pax-friendly, self-rerouting software will soon be installed at kiosks, since there's hardly enough c/s staff to handle the upcoming "very unpleasant relationship on this property".

INVOL

 

[Atlantic]

Biff,
What is this "pilot" thing you have?
Thank God you only stock shelves.

 

[ClueByFour]

On another note.

I don't think that Dave really "torpedeod" anybody's plan. Sooner or later, if this legislation is to pass, some Senator or Rep. was bound to ask the question: what other options are there (or, more specifically, "is cash balance and/or distress termination a possibility")? It was bound to happen. US also can't say "do this or we are sunk" and spout a different tune to the judge the next day, now can it?

One must believe that Dave (or, Herr Doctor Bronner, probably) have had a "secondary" plan in their heads from the get-go. And let's be honest--RSA probably prefers that the ALPA pension be terminated, since those cashflows can instantly be plowed back into running the company.

I would hope that the pilots as a collective group think very carefully about what the possible options are, and consider even more carefully what the consequences of a "unfriendly environment" might be. To be frank (pardon the pun), I would have bet money on the IAM being involved in such a situation--I always figured ALPA to be a bit more sophisticated and long-term in it's collective thinking.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

Biffman..
I'm sure Giant, Superfresh, or Weis might allow Pilots to stock shelves. Graveyard shift. It's getting interesting. Rounds 3 & 4 comming soon.

 

[chipmunn]

Throughout this thread I have reported the opinions of ALPA MEC members and the rank-and-file, but I have never given my opinion. When I do so I use either the phrase "in my opinion" or "I believe".

My comments are from others so please do not direct your comments, condescending remarks, or jabs at me please "do not shoot the messenger".

Regardless, there will be news from the bankruptcy court today on this issue and there still is congressional legislation pending.

On a different subject, I commend Tim Nelson and Chris Chiames for using their names to post their opinions.

Chip

 

[Atlantic]

Let me tell you you about 1992.
The company was going through a bad time. Almost BK then.
ALPA,along with other crafts "gave" to help the company. ALPA gave 50 million. The IAM said screw the company and it's workers. "We're not giving anything".
After a week, they signed for less than the company offered before they walked.
That hissy cost the company almost 80 million.
And it was all for nothing.
Dumb.
And now you are getting payed IAM wages to stock shelves.
What do you have to complane about?
I forgot, it's those damb pilots, right.

 

[Biffeman]

Atlantic is that the best you can do? I don't have a pilot thing, I am a trade unionist and one thing I learned in 1992 is that ALPA only cares about ALPA. The things I posted were true events that took place and you could not refute them. [BR][BR]Oh and due to the restructuring I got knocked back down to a lower classification so I took two paycuts.

 

[Biffeman]

[BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/16/2003 3:18:05 PM Atlantic wrote: [BR][BR]Let me tell you you about 1992.[BR]The company was going through a bad time. Almost BK then.[BR]ALPA,along with other crafts "gave" to help the company. ALPA gave 50 million. The IAM said screw the company and it's workers. "We're not giving anything".[BR]After a week, they signed for less than the company offered before they walked.[BR]That hissy cost the company almost 80 million.[BR]And it was all for nothing.[BR]Dumb.[BR]And now you are getting payed IAM wages to stock shelves.[BR]What do you have to complane about?[BR]I forgot, it's those damb pilots, right. ----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]You show your ignorance:[BR]One the company was not BK in 1992, it was in 1994 when they came back for more. [BR]We gave a 3.5% paycut for 12 months, we paid for medical and gave up half the line mechanic jobs, so dont tell me what happened if you were not involved as I was. We did not sign for less then what they company offered, they wanted 5% paycut we only gave 3.5%. Your ALPA group became a bunch of scabs[STRONG][FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"](a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike )[/FONT][/STRONG] when you made a backdoor deal to get every single pilot paid regardless if he or she flew or not, some of your pilots even came in on their own time and cleaned airplanes. And the strike only cost the company $35 million. At least the AFA had the guts to stand up to the company and support us and they still supported us when the judge ordered them to work.[BR][BR]And maybe you need to learn that I am not stores anymore and maybe you should learn the job before you spout off your attacks on a classification when you have no idea of what it involves. And maybe you need to learn the facts instead of posting untruths.[BR][BR][STRONG]Stock Clerk:[/STRONG] [EM]The work of a Stock Clerk shall consist of storeroom work, including recieving, shipping, checking, inspecting, issuing, inventorying, storing and warehousing of supplies, equipment and materials, the operation of stores equipment, the preperation and maintenance of required records and reports, and other storeroom work and to include the inventory of the field audit at all Maintenance locations. When AOG parts or material are transported by ground from a station where a Stock Clerk is located on a regular basis, such transport of parts and material will be performed by the Stock Clerk classification.[/EM]

 

[autofixer]

[blockquote]
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On 1/16/2003 3:32:14 PM Biffeman wrote:





[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 1/16/2003 3:18:05 PM Atlantic wrote:

Let me tell you you about 1992.
The company was going through a bad time. Almost BK then.
ALPA,along with other crafts "gave" to help the company. ALPA gave 50 million. The IAM said screw the company and it's workers. "We're not giving anything".
After a week, they signed for less than the company offered before they walked.
That hissy cost the company almost 80 million.
And it was all for nothing.
Dumb.
And now you are getting payed IAM wages to stock shelves.
What do you have to complane about?
I forgot, it's those damb pilots, right. ----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]

You show your ignorance:
One the company was not BK in 1992, it was in 1994 when they came back for more.
We gave a 3.5% paycut for 12 months, we paid for medical and gave up half the line mechanic jobs, so dont tell me what happened if you were not involved as I was. We did not sign for less then what they company offered, they wanted 5% paycut we only gave 3.5%. Your ALPA group became a bunch of scabs[STRONG][FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"](a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike )[/FONT][/STRONG] when you made a backdoor deal to get every single pilot paid regardless if he or she flew or not, some of your pilots even came in on their own time and cleaned airplanes. And the strike only cost the company $35 million. At least the AFA had the guts to stand up to the company and support us and they still supported us when the judge ordered them to work.

And maybe you need to learn that I am not stores anymore and maybe you should learn the job before you spout off your attacks on a classification when you have no idea of what it involves. And maybe you need to learn the facts instead of posting untruths.

[STRONG]Stock Clerk:[/STRONG] [EM]The work of a Stock Clerk shall consist of storeroom work, including recieving, shipping, checking, inspecting, issuing, inventorying, storing and warehousing of supplies, equipment and materials, the operation of stores equipment, the preperation and maintenance of required records and reports, and other storeroom work and to include the inventory of the field audit at all Maintenance locations. When AOG parts or material are transported by ground from a station where a Stock Clerk is located on a regular basis, such transport of parts and material will be performed by the Stock Clerk classification.[/EM]
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[/blockquote]
So what pilot replaced a IAM union member? I DO REMEMBER those IAM and future CWA types, who picketed the ALPA hq in PIT back in the mid 90's, demanding that ALPA accept amongst other things, RJs. This did lead to the replacment of union jobs..."Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." Biffeman, were you in that picket line?

 

[Do_it_for_Dave]

Why does it really matter when a person is posting on this site. Pilots do have laptops and when they are flying do have the ability to check their email during layovers.

 

[kiloromeo]

Chip..you seem to post on lots of threads, everyday and through out the day...when do you fly for the company? ..just curious.

 

[Biffeman]

The only picket line I walked was in October of 1992 when I was on strike. I dont picket other unions or labor organizations as I am a trade unionist.

 

[skyflyr69]

[blockquote]
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On 1/15/2003 109 PM savyinvestor wrote:

Sorry Chip. 44,000,000 Americans aren't going to put their retirements at risk so U pilots can get their million dollar pensions. As one of those 44,000,000 I'm contacting the Finance committee and demanding they make no exceptions for U. If you make an exception for one than you have to make exceptions for all. If ALPA negotiated one of those" its not what your worth, but what you negotiate contracts" its ALPA's problem not ours. If U can't pay take less. Don't put others pensions at risk to save yours!
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[/blockquote]
dear savvyinvestor , make sure you address congress also. As the federal government bailed out government pensions back in 1974!!!!

 

[Biffeman]

That is because a pilot cannot sign off the logbook for a wheel and oil, and pilots on their own time came in to volunteer to clean planes, I never mentioned oil, and according to the company and our negotiating team the strike cost them $35 million, but I forgot you are a pilot you know it all and everyone else is wrong.

 

[AP Tech]

Wow Atlantic...You seem to have alot of anger toward your co-workers. I am sure glad this forum is here for you to vent. I just hate a hostile work environment.