My view on Senate hearing on US Airways pension problem

[diogenes]

Guys, Wolf wheeled Dave in because of his expertise in walking an airline thru BK. Dave has used BK at every turn to hammer labor into submission. There have been no options, no negotiations. There will be none regarding the pension.

That's not pretty, or fair or anything else. It is the fact of the matter.

Labor friendly was just the vaseline.

 

[Biffeman]

Oldie you need to learn their is no tax dollars used when the PBGC takes over a plan, the employers pay a fee for insurance to the PBGC.[BR][A name=1][STRONG]1. What are the current premium rates for PBGC-insured plans?[/STRONG][/A] [BR wp="br1"][BR wp="br2"]Currently, all PBGC-insured single-employer defined benefit pension plans pay a flat-rate charge of $19 per participant per plan year. Underfunded single-employer plans pay an additional variable-rate premium of $9 for every $1,000 (or fraction thereof) of unfunded vested benefits. [BR wp="br1"][BR wp="br2"]The premium rate for PBGC-insured multiemployer plans is $2.60 per participant per plan year. [BR wp="br1"]

 

[oldiebutgoody]

No pilot I know came in to clean or service airplanes. You are making this up. Not even management pilots did that. If you could prove it, you should have. BUt I know that you can't, because it didn't happen!

 

[Atlantic]

Read my post,
I said almost in BK. You want to tell me we wern't going down that road real fast? 80 million, I stand by that.
Scab, one who performs struck work. I don't know any pilot that did a wheel and oil, much less sign off a log book.
Thanks for telling me the heavy weight of a stores person.
The teller of the bank I went to today probably handled 300 tho.during the day and got it right.
Swim in the IAM reductionism. And you can have the last word.

 

[Biffeman]

You program the computer, hit the auto throttles and then engage the autopilot, and ask the people who work clt line in 1992, some pilots came in on their own time and cleaned planes, but maybe if you were there you would have known what happened, you were probably one of the douglas or fokker piltos who got a paid vacaction when not flying due to the strike.

 

[Biffeman]

Guess you never learned sarcasm. It is so ironic that some of the pilot types on here were telling the IAM, CWA, TWU and AFA how to vote, cause we got to save the company. Now that they are gonna take a big hit their tone changes a complete 180.[BR][BR]Like I said ask the CWA or Fleet how it feels.

 

[Atlantic]

Oldie,
Remember the computer on the CV 580,ND262,Bac 111, DC9. Dang,somehow I missed it.

 

[Biffeman]

It comes from the interest and dividends of the money that was in the plans when they were taken over by the PBGC, in CLT last August a PBGC employee gave a PBGC pension overview at the DL 141M Chairman's Conference and I was in attendance.[BR][BR] [BR]
[P class=headertext][A name=body]Legal Information & FOIA[/A][BR][BR][FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"]PBGC is a federal government corporation [/FONT]established by Title IV of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) to encourage the continuation and maintenance of defined benefit pension plans, provide timely and uninterrupted payment of pension benefits to participants and beneficiaries in plans covered by PBGC, and keep pension insurance premiums at the lowest level necessary to carry out the Corporation's objectives. Find out more about the laws and regulations governing PBGC and PBGC's responsibility under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). [A href="http://www.pbgc.gov/laws/default.htm#top"][/A]I think you need to make sure you post facts, you are 1000% wrong, read it and weep![BR][BR] [BR]
[P class=headertext][A name=body]Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation[/A][BR][BR][BR][BR][b]Mission and Background:[/b] PBGC was created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 to encourage the growth of defined benefit pension plans, provide timely and uninterrupted payment of pension benefits, and keep pension insurance premiums at a minimum. Defined benefit pension plans promise to pay a specified monthly benefit at retirement, commonly based on salary and years on the job. [BR][BR][b]Money PBGC Takes In and Pays Out:[/b] [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"]PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. PBGC collects insurance premiums from employers that sponsor insured pension plans, earns money from investments and receives funds from pension plans it takes over. [/FONT][BR][BR]PBGC pays monthly retirement benefits, up to a [A href="http://www.pbgc.gov/services/descriptions/guarantee_table.htm"]guaranteed maximum[/A], to nearly 269,000 retirees in 2,975 pension plans that ended. Including those who have not yet retired, PBGC is responsible for the current and future pensions of about 624,000 people. [BR][BR][b]PBGC's Two Pension Insurance Programs:[/b] The single-employer program protects about 35 million workers and retirees in about 33,500 pension plans. The multiemployer program protects about 9.4 million workers and retirees in more than 1,700 pension plans. Multiemployer plans are set up by collectively bargained agreements involving more than one unrelated employer, generally in one industry. [BR][BR][b]How Pension Plans End:[/b] An employer can voluntarily ask to close its single employer pension plan in either a [A href="http://www.pbgc.gov/publications/factshts/TERMFACT.HTM"]standard or distress termination[/A]. In a [b]standard termination[/b], the plan must have enough money to pay all benefits, whether vested or not, before the plan can end. After workers receive promised benefits, in the form of a lump sum payment or an insurance company annuity, PBGC's guarantee ends. In a [b]distress termination[/b], where the plan does not have enough money to pay all benefits, the employer must prove severe financial distress for instance the likelihood that continuing the plan would force the company to shut down. PBGC will pay guaranteed benefits, usually covering a large part of total earned benefits, and make strong efforts to recover funds from the employer. [BR][BR]In addition, PBGC may seek to close a single-employer plan without the employer's consent to protect the interests of workers, the plan or PBGC's insurance fund. PBGC must act to terminate a plan that cannot pay current benefits. [BR][BR]For multiemployer pension plans that are unable to pay guaranteed benefits when due, PBGC will provide financial assistance to the plan, usually a loan, so that retirees continue receiving their benefits. [BR][BR][b]Premium Rates:[/b][FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00"] Pension plans pay PBGC yearly insurance premiums: $2.60 per worker or retiree in multiemployer plans; $19 per worker or retiree plus $9 for each $1,000 of unfunded vested benefits in single-employer plans. Premium rates increase only if Congress approves. [BR][/FONT][BR][b]Maximum Guaranteed Benefit:[/b] The maximum pension benefit guaranteed by PBGC is set by law and adjusted yearly. For single-employer plans ended in 2002, workers who retire at age 65 or older can receive up to $3,579.55 a month (or $42,954.60 a year). The guarantee is lower for those who retire early or when there is a benefit for a survivor. [BR][BR][b]PBGC Leadership:[/b] PBGC is headed by an Executive Director who reports to a Board of Directors consisting of the Secretaries of Labor, Commerce and Treasury, with the Secretary of Labor as Chairman. [BR][BR][b]Single copies of publications and fact sheets are available from: Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, Communications and Public Affairs Department, 1200 K Street NW, Suite 240, Washington, DC 20005-4026.[/b] [/P]

 

[ONTHESTREET]

Like I said.....you have no idea what a pilot does.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I don't think that the government really wants U to exercise a "distressed termination" of the pension funds for a couple of reasons. First, it TOTALLY lets management off the hook for the mismanagement of this company. Second, it puts another financial burden on the taxpayers, something that Republicans are supposed to be against. Third, what happens when ALL the other companies in this boat (Delta, AMR, NW, as well as GM, Ford, etc) decide they want to be relieved of this burden and start lookling into their own distressed terminations. Especially considering that many of these are funded even worse than U's plans, It could turn into a huge snowball, ready to knock the Republicans right off of Capitol Hill. Right now, I'll bet the only ones who truly want this to happen are Dave and the DIP financers, who look to come out of this "smelling like a rose" if they can shed all of this debt with a pen stroke. The PBGC guys may think this is what they want, but I'll bet that after another look or two (remember, they are government employees, a little slow on the uptake) they'll understand what a boon this would be to management and a mistake it would be for the taxpayers. By the way, that guy who calls himself "savyinvestor" hasn't a clue about what he speaks. Making management responsible for pensions will save everyone's pensions. Allowing them off the hook through a "distressed termination" is what will ruin pensions for everyone else. Once the snowball starts rolling, it'll get big enough to devour the entire idea of retirement security as we know it. It will be gone like the days of full service gas stations. The only other option (the one that this "savyinvestor" guy may be hinting at) is a total liquidation of U in order to fully fund (or as much as possible) the plans. I see this as highly unlikely, even with the strong political forces which "appear" at this moment to be against U.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/16/2003 7:37:29 PM Biffeman wrote:
[P]You program the computer, hit the auto throttles and then engage the autopilot, and ask the people who work clt line in 1992, some pilots came in on their own time and cleaned planes, but maybe if you were there you would have known what happened, you were probably one of the douglas or fokker piltos who got a paid vacaction when not flying due to the strike.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Sorry, don't buy it.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/16/2003 3:32:14 PM Biffeman wrote:




maybe you should learn the job before you spout off your attacks on a classification when you have no idea of what it involves. And maybe you need to learn the facts instead of posting untruths.



Biff,

I would suggest that you take your own advise before you go spouting off at the mouth about pilots and what they do. It is clear in your previous posts that you have not one clue as to what a pilot does in his profession.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/16/2003 710 PM Biffeman wrote:
[P]Oldie you need to learn their is no tax dollars used when the PBGC takes over a plan, the employers pay a fee for insurance to the PBGC.[BR][A name=1][STRONG]1. What are the current premium rates for PBGC-insured plans?[/STRONG][/A] [BR wp='"br1"'][BR wp='"br2"']Currently, all PBGC-insured single-employer defined benefit pension plans pay a flat-rate charge of $19 per participant per plan year. Underfunded single-employer plans pay an additional variable-rate premium of $9 for every $1,000 (or fraction thereof) of unfunded vested benefits. [BR wp='"br1"'][BR wp='"br2"']The premium rate for PBGC-insured multiemployer plans is $2.60 per participant per plan year. [BR wp='"br1"'][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]You, sir, are absloutely wrong. PBGC is an agency of the federal government. Any amounts NOT covered are paid from a fund, just like social security. There ARE premiums for this, but the amounts we are talking would be paid well in the future, and the taxpayers would assume the risk of paying these debts, just as they are for social security. Why do you think Social Security is almost always a subject of political discussion? I hardly think that $19/year will, even with super high interest rates and compounding be worth the $43,000 at age 65 (or 28,000 at age 60). where do you think the rest of the money comes from? The pension fairy?

 

[ual06]

By the way. It appears Delta has gone to a cash balance plan.

"In the December 2002 quarter, Delta announced changes to its employee pension program as part of its ongoing strategic benefits review initiative. With the implementation of and migration to a new cash balance plan, Delta expects to realize cost savings of approximately $120 million in 2003 and $600 million over the next five year.". -----

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030116/atth005_1.html

 

[Biffeman]

Your welcome, I just love to prove someone wrong, lol