Ideas to pass a TA with the mechanics.

[MetalMover]

 
If I'm wrong I'll eat crow to you or Bob, I would rather Bob be right then you. The big difference from the 2003 and 2012 contracts is, in 2003 the company was holding a gun to our pensions, retiree medical, and OH. In 2012  AA shot the pension and retiree medical, and threatened OH, which Tulsa capitulated and voted in the contract (hence the OH mentality) then knee capped OH, with AFW closing and work outsourced.
 
Since we no longer have pension, retiree medical, or OH holding us down there is no reason not to get at LEAST 3% above Delta. The TWU gave everything to save jobs, only to lose jobs, pay and benefits. There is more to a/c maint then just Tulsa, a lot of former Tulsa guys are realizing what a bad contract TULE voted in. 

I have to say I agree with this post. the problem I see is that the company will not just GIVE us DL matching wages or even a tad more WITHOUT getting something ELSE in return. You are correct, they got the pension, retiree medical more outsourcing...So what's left? My hunch is the sick time bank might be offered for sacrifice for an increase in pay....The F/A's got the $$$$ but they had to give them the "hard 40."
 
We are not going to get an increase to match DL wages without losing something else.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I have to say I agree with this post. the problem I see is that the company will not just GIVE us DL matching wages or even a tad more WITHOUT getting something ELSE in return. You are correct, they got the pension, retiree medical more outsourcing...So what's left? My hunch is the sick time bank might be offered for sacrifice for an increase in pay....The F/A's got the $$$$ but they had to give them the "hard 40."
 
We are not going to get an increase to match DL wages without losing something else.

What concerns me is. What else do we have to give?

 

[bigjets]

I have to say I agree with this post. the problem I see is that the company will not just GIVE us DL matching wages or even a tad more WITHOUT getting something ELSE in return. You are correct, they got the pension, retiree medical more outsourcing...So what's left? My hunch is the sick time bank might be offered for sacrifice for an increase in pay....The F/A's got the $$$$ but they had to give them the "hard 40."
 
We are not going to get an increase to match DL wages without losing something else.

 
This is why the FA's voted down their TA - MISINFORMATION - The APFA was offered above Delta wages by AA, the AA FA's have far superior work rules to Delta FA's before and after TA, the FA's TA offered 1500 hours of bankable sick time up from 1000 bankable sick time. 
 
Now for the infamous hard 40, the APFA went to the company and said we are getting a lot of push back on the hard 40, so AA took the hard 40 out of the contract. Meaning the FA's can be employed by AA without working for months on end as long as they fly about 440 hours a year.
 
The know it all's, then decided to say "AA moved on that, they'll move on other things".
 
As far as we go, we really have nothing else to give, the TWU gave away everything, and if DP is to believed, which I do, based on what he offered the APFA, he wants us to all be higher paid then our competitors which is Delta and UAL. Hopefully the Mechanics won't throw it back in his face, or listen to the know it alls who are wrong about everything. 
 
From this forum, it sounds like we have the battered mechanics syndrome, where we have been beaten so much we think we deserve it, to the loons who want $51 an hour with full retro to 2003.

 

[toroshark]

As long as getting raises is not tied to giving up 401k for IAM pension it all sounds good. I sincerely hope that the Association does not even try to take our existing frozen pensions and throw them into the IAMPF as well. From the feedback I get from my co-workers that is a definite non-starter. Unfortunately if you read the tea leaves that will be exactly what will occur, by hook or crook!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
If I'm wrong I'll eat crow to you or Bob, I would rather Bob be right then you. The big difference from the 2003 and 2012 contracts is, in 2003 the company was holding a gun to our pensions, retiree medical, and OH. In 2012  AA shot the pension and retiree medical, and threatened OH, which Tulsa capitulated and voted in the contract (hence the OH mentality) then knee capped OH, with AFW closing and work outsourced.
 
Since we no longer have pension, retiree medical, or OH holding us down there is no reason not to get at LEAST 3% above Delta. The TWU gave everything to save jobs, only to lose jobs, pay and benefits. There is more to a/c maint then just Tulsa, a lot of former Tulsa guys are realizing what a bad contract TULE voted in. 

I am hoping to be the one who has to eat crow.  I will do it happily and proclaim to all that you were right and I was wrong.  But I have little faith in the TWU and none in the alliance.  I see another sub standard deal with the TWU blaming the IAM and the IAM blaming the TWU.  I do know one thing for sure though.  The TWU ATD has absolutely no AMTs from American Airlines.  We will not be represented.  But we'll see.  I do know the TWU has told me in the past that we had industry leading contracts when we were still several dollars per hour behind United and Delta and everyone else.  They use a different kind of math to figure things out than we do I guess.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Getting back to ideas for contract demands.  We need our medical premiums frozen for the length of the contract so when we get a bump in pay it doesn't go right back to AA.  We need 6 weeks vacation at 25 years and 7 weeks at 30 years.  12 sick days per year paid at 100% with our bank increased back to 1600 hours.  11 holidays (MLK Day included).  We need at least the 401K company contribution that the FAs have with no match from us required.  We also need the bumping rights that we used to have.  Like Bob Owens says, you bump where your seniority will allow you and not where the lowest in the system is.  Yes this will create a mess but then it will make the company think hard before laying anyone off.  Do any of you think this are realistic demands?

 

[bigjets]

Getting back to ideas for contract demands.  We need our medical premiums frozen for the length of the contract so when we get a bump in pay it doesn't go right back to AA.  We need 6 weeks vacation at 25 years and 7 weeks at 30 years.  12 sick days per year paid at 100% with our bank increased back to 1600 hours.  11 holidays (MLK Day included).  We need at least the 401K company contribution that the FAs have with no match from us required.  We also need the bumping rights that we used to have.  Like Bob Owens says, you bump where your seniority will allow you and not where the lowest in the system is.  Yes this will create a mess but then it will make the company think hard before laying anyone off.  Do any of you think this are realistic demands?

That does sound reasonable, not sure if medical would happen though as all the unions have the same health plan.

 

[lineguy43]

Getting back to ideas for contract demands.  We need our medical premiums frozen for the length of the contract so when we get a bump in pay it doesn't go right back to AA.  We need 6 weeks vacation at 25 years and 7 weeks at 30 years.  12 sick days per year paid at 100% with our bank increased back to 1600 hours.  11 holidays (MLK Day included).  We need at least the 401K company contribution that the FAs have with no match from us required.  We also need the bumping rights that we used to have.  Like Bob Owens says, you bump where your seniority will allow you and not where the lowest in the system is.  Yes this will create a mess but then it will make the company think hard before laying anyone off.  Do any of you think this are realistic demands?

 
Thats the way it was at NW we went where our seniority could hold and displaced the junior person at that station

 

[bigjets]

Thats the way it was at NW we went where our seniority could hold and displaced the junior person at that station

How does it work now, because I thought that was the way it is.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

How does it work now, because I thought that was the way it is.

The way it works now is you have to bump the lowest seniority AMT in the entire system.  

 

[AANOTOK]

As long as getting raises is not tied to giving up 401k for IAM pension it all sounds good. I sincerely hope that the Association does not even try to take our existing frozen pensions and throw them into the IAMPF as well. From the feedback I get from my co-workers that is a definite non-starter. Unfortunately if you read the tea leaves that will be exactly what will occur, by hook or crook!

I keep hearing that trash, but I'm still of the opinion that legally, this can't be done. I have read all the scare tactics, but I haven't seen any evidence that states it is legal without my permission. It is not the TWU's pension, it is not AA's pension. It is my pension in my name. Frozen and in my name.
 
I will eat crow here as well if I'm wrong...and, it's nice to see some of us admit we are wrong and swallow the black bird down...unlike 700 who still hasn't eaten his FCFS crow!

 

[swamt]

The way it works now is you have to bump the lowest seniority AMT in the entire system.  

That's terrible.  Your seniority should take you where ever your seniority takes you, NOT where the most junior person is.  That's not right, it's sounds to me that it is just easier on the company during a closure to put someone in the lowest spot rather than doing all the trickle bidding required.  

 

[bigjets]

That's terrible.  Your seniority should take you where ever your seniority takes you, NOT where the most junior person is.  That's not right, it's sounds to me that it is just easier on the company during a closure to put someone in the lowest spot rather than doing all the trickle bidding required.  

 
 
You're out of order brother.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The way it works now is you have to bump the lowest seniority AMT in the entire system.  

 
OG
 
That is the way the TWU here has it set up but we all know that the last 3-4 layoffs that is not the way it went. The TWU and the Company allowed stations to be Red bordered and let some into stations that did not have the lowest person in the system either.
 
With the IAM contracts they can bump any where in the system they can hold. Which is a good thing for the members but not for the company.  The only bad thing is that while you are traveling from one station to the next you can get bumped as well. We had that at Eastern.
 
They have it at SWA and had it at NWA because of the IAM. They were also allowed to bump the what we call title 2 guys that is why they won't sign an AMFA card since they have been told that is an AMFA thing. Which is not correct at all.
 
All of these ideas are great but if we still have this association or the TWU why would any of you sign a T/A with either? We must improve on what we have and get back what we all gave up. That is and should be what all of us should be talking about and nothing LESS.

 

[Real tired]

Ok let me explain.....  When AA went into BK and the TWU was talking about wages they (TWU) admitted that if we all went to industry standard wages then Fleet and Stores would take pay cuts and AMTs would get raises.  Did this result in AMTs getting more than Fleet or Stores?  No it did not.  It actually resulted in us getting less.  If you think the TWU would allow AMTs to get a higher percentage raise then FS or Stores even though we are much farther behind Delta/United wages than they are you are delusional.  It ain't gonna happen.  Ask any FS who frequent this site if they would be ok with getting a 3% raise while we were getting 7% (or higher)?  There is no way they would let that happen no matter how far behind the rest of the industry we are.  Don't believe me?  Wait and see.  When we are offered the same % as FS and Stores I expect you to issue an apology.  If I am wrong I will do the same, but I would expect you are going to be the one to eat crow and not me.  The bus driver union that has nothing but Fleet Service Clerks in the ATD will look out for their own at our expense just like always.  The TWU divides the money between the groups unless there are concessions then the AMTs take the brunt of it.  What makes you think this will be any different?  But call it O/H mentality or anything else you want.  We'll see who eats crow won't we?  What is hilarious to me is that you say I have O/H mentality while you are drinking the TWU Koolaid.  We'll get em this time right? hahahahahaha

Since we're soon to be coworkers, I try to understand what is posted here to learn from "your side".
 
What do bus drivers have to do with anything?  And how do they tie into Fleet Service?  Do you mean a bus company like Trailways?