Ideas to pass a TA with the mechanics.

swamt said:
Not sure but we will all see what happens this time around.  The Pilots have alienated the F/A's union the TWU within the LC at SWA.  They got sick and tired of the TWU's constant childish games they were playing by keeping AMFA out of the LC.  The Pilots were loud and proud telling the TWU that they were alot closer to the mechanics group than they were with the F/A's group and the Pilots pulled the AMFA mechanics into the Labor Collation Summit.  Since then the TWU group refuses to attend the LCS while AMFA is attending.  So yes TWU does in fact hate the mechanics and AMFA at SWA. They even tried to get a card drive going, but, it never even got a slight boost from any mechanics.  All these childish games that the TWU are playing are in fact going to bite them in the a$$ in the long run.  Not sure how much longer the TWU will be around for our F/A's.  Our Pilots did it, then the mechanics did it and I foresee our F/A's will finally get their very own group F/A union in instead of the bus drivers union.  
 
PS...  The company knows all about this happening with the F/A's and will try to take advantage of the situation.  And remember this, all this was the union only (TWU) trying to keep AMFA out, NOT, the employees.  All employees wanted each and every group into the LCS.  It all started with the AMFA card drives at other airlines and of course in the very beginning the teamsters were also completely against any kind of AMFA attendance, but I don't hear much from their side of the fence any more.  Why not since this is to help the betterment of the employees, and not a union thing, although it is in fact thru all the unions at SWA.  As an individual, I say the TWU is welcome to come back into the LCS, but, from what I am hearing they (TWU) will have absolutely nothing to do with it as long as AMFA is a part of it.  I am sorry for the F/A employees, as this entire childish games are being played by the TWU and really passing on an opportunity to get better informed and in fact bringing all of our employees together and on the same page, so sad indeed...
Its sad how Unions will turn on each other.  The problem is in part due to AMFAs position on organizing where they let any clown speak for AMFA. The flyers that go out with terms such as "bag smashers" etc certainly do not foster any "goodwill" from other unions on the property and most Unionists (Craft and Industrial Unionists alike) take offense to a group thats better paid trashing a group thats paid less instead of trashing management.  Much of the literature put of by AMFA claimed that mechanics were poorly paid because of baggage handlers and that management would willingly pay them more if they didn't have to pay the baggage handlers more. This of course is a lie, management wants to screw everybody they can but it fueled resentment between mechanics and Fleet service and the company enjoyed that. 
 
That said on the other side we see Unions that would rather see other groups fail so their own shortcomings don't look so bad, even if that failure means their own members will suffer down the road. These leaders don't care and rationalize their stance because their pay and benefits, provided and funded by union dues, remains intact. 
 
The position of the TWU at SWA is stupid and divisive, sometimes you have to put differences aside and realize who the real enemy is, AMFA is not seeking the Flight Attendants or Fleet Service workers at SWA, in the end their members will be harmed by the breakup of the Council, not the pilots and not the mechanics. If a company has their pilots and mechanics they have their airline. 
 
The feeling towards AMFA at the TWU is one of pure hatred, even leaders from the transit division hate AMFA. I believe this is prevalent throughout most of the AFL-CIO and  I suspect its due to what they have seen come out of grassroots AMFA drives where any clown who steps up can print up whatever they want and put it out as AMFA literature and over the years some of the stuff has been pretty bad. If mechanics want their own Union they shouldn't tear down other work groups to get it. While they may get a few cards signed that way they probably lose just as many, plus alienate everyone else on the property. When AMFA leaders sit back and allow this stuff to go out unchallenged then other Unions see that as a sign of approval, and other Unions are not going to assist a Union that puts out stuff thats degrading and insulting to the people they represent. 
 
Pilots have their own Unions.
 
Flight Attendants have their own Unions.
 
Why is it OK for them but not OK for mechanics? The answer is it is OK for mechanics, just as its OK for Pilots, flight attendants, plumbers, electricians etc etc but if mechanics go out and attack other workers, whether they be "Bus Drivers", truck Drivers" or baggage handlers and flight attendants, its going to leave them isolated within the labor movement, even from other Craft Unions. AMFA, due to its history of trashing other workers made themselves so toxic that even the other craft unions avoided association with them.  
 
There is an uneasy alliance within the Labor Movement between hard core craft unions and hard core Industrial Unions, sort of like the alliance between the Allies and Russia during WWII,   (with corporations being the fascists of course). Its always been this way and likely always will be. Labor is losing because we have a lot of Neville Chamberlains running a lot of Unions in the labor movement, on both sides, craft and industrial- so the Nazis not only got Czechoslovakia but have taken Poland, the Baltic states and Russia up to the Volga while our leaders are still saying "live to fight another day". 
 
If you were to ask an Industrial Unionist the same question "Why is it OK for Pilots and Mechanics to have Craft Unions but not ok for mechanics to have their own Union" they would not give you an honest answer. Their true belief if they in fact are hard core Industrial Unionists is that the Pilots and Flight Attendants should not have their own Unions, they should be in the same union as everyone else, but they won't say that, they will say "Well those unions aren't raiding". But at SWA AMFA isn't raiding anyone still the TWU at SWA, which is basically two craft Locals within and Industrial Union, and is willing to sit with the Pilots Craft Union has a deep seated hatred for AMFA where they would rather remain divided in the face of management rather than be united.
 
If you were to ask a Leader from a craft Union the same question you would likely get the same response, because that keeps the fragile alliance between the Unions in place, they don't want to get involved in internal politics of an Industrial Union which they consider to be an OK Alliance partner but basically inferior, thats why the SWA pilots took the position they did (their situation is a little more complex because they are an independent Union that was probably hoping to gain some AFL-CIO support through the TWU and IBT), but apparently they are starting to say enough is enough (realization having set in that the support was not coming) . Deep down most pilots in this industry do feel that mechanics should be in their own Union. Over the years I've had many pilots say just that. But their Unions will not come out and support that for political reasons, and AMFA is responsible for allowing themselves to become so Toxic that even other Craft Unions are reluctant to say they have a legitimate right to exist and will not associate with them. 
 
Bob Owens said:
 
 
The position of the TWU at SWA is stupid and divisive, sometimes you have to put differences aside and realize who the real enemy is, AMFA is not seeking the Flight Attendants or Fleet Service workers at SWA, in the end their members will be harmed by the breakup of the Council, not the pilots and not the mechanics. If a company has their pilots and mechanics they have their airline. 
 
 
Exactly correct.  Sorry for picking only one para of your post, but this one really stood out to me as it was the very same thing the pilots told our leaders (your last sentence)  as it takes both...
 
Bob, was there so much in fighting between the local presidents that a passable TA in 2010 was impossible? Plus do you think with losing the locals will make for more cohesive negotiating on our side, meaning speaking with one voice.
 
Duke787 said:
 Plus do you think with losing the locals will make for more cohesive negotiating on our side, meaning speaking with one voice.
Well yea, because there will only be one voice. 
 
Bob Owens said:
Well yea, because there will only be one voice.
Is it speaking with one voice, or is it one mech and a bunch FSC presidents representing title 2 and tul union brothers deciding what AMTs will be paid?
 
Duke787 said:
Is it speaking with one voice, or is it one mech and a bunch FSC presidents representing title 2 and tul union brothers deciding what AMTs will be paid?
Different question, I believed you were referring to Line maintenance. 
 
The answer to that question is One title one from Local 514, 567, and 591 for a total of three AMTs, and one Titlel II from each of those three, and possibly five FSC Presidents (not sure how many Fleet Locals are left) , unless the negotiations bylaws are changed (assuming we don't end up in the Association). As long as 591 and 567 stand together we should be OK if they went with Roll call, those from FSC Locals always voted with Tulsa (except Vinny Argentina from 501 who only voted with them once), would need to look at the numbers again. Hopefully the International will address Title II sooner rather than later and correct that. If they addressed Title II and T-II chose to go with 591 it would pick up 800 more members and it would only be people from the title groups covered by the contract in negotiations. 591 would also be a lot bigger than Tulsa.  So OH would still be the majority but the history of 567 is much more militant than that of Tulsa when it comes to getting a decent contract. Have not received a breakdown of the US numbers but I believe they have more line than OH mechanics in the system. 
 
With the Association Title II won't have anybody, either will Stores. The two internationals pick who goes. Thats not right either. 
 
Local 514 Negotiations Priority List is being circulated around the base.
Seeking input from members to categorize what to ask for but also IMO what/who to target to pass a T/A.
I couldn't upload a copy from my phone but will try at home. If I remember correctly they did this before the 08 negotiations.
 
It would be nice if they would have circulated something to gauge support or lack thereof for the abomination known as the Association.
 
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  • #175
toroshark said:
I hope everybody in Tulsa prioritizes keeping matching 401k as opposed to the Iampf.
If the pilots are getting a 17% contribution and the FAs are getting a 9.9% contribution the mechs should get a 13% contribution, not a 5.5% match. Again what i suggest is not outrageous but more in line with what our competitors and fellow employees are getting.
 
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  • #177
Real tired said:
This fellow employee gets 0% company match.
And you want to stick with the iam, even AA non Union employees get a match.

Either we go amfa or non Union is better then twu iam or the unholy bastard of an association
 
bigjets said:
And you want to stick with the iam, even AA non Union employees get a match.

Either we go amfa or non Union is better then twu iam or the unholy bastard of an association
I've never read RealTired saying he wants to stick with the IAM.
 
2ndGENAMT said:
Local 514 Negotiations Priority List is being circulated around the base.
Seeking input from members to categorize what to ask for but also IMO what/who to target to pass a T/A.
I couldn't upload a copy from my phone but will try at home. If I remember correctly they did this before the 08 negotiations.
Does anyone have this Negotiations Priority List?  Please post when you can...
 
toroshark said:
I hope everybody in Tulsa prioritizes keeping matching 401k as opposed to the Iampf.
It really doesn't matter what we fill out on the surveys.  TWU International will do what they want as always.  Here in Tulsa local 514 is trying to sell the IAMNPF right now.  I have tried to tell people to do some research on the internet and see for themselves that it's a bad deal.  But they are too lazy.  They don't believe the guys who will suffer with them but they believe anything that come out of the TWU.  Also some actually believe we will have both the IAMNPF and the 401K match.  If anyone believes that they need to be drug tested.
 
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