IAM topic of the week

[freedom]

I have a question for you my brothers , how extreme should we now shift our rhetoric ?

I’ve been verging on extremist for quite some time now , but I always mange to stop myself posting anything too radical at the last second , are we in a weapons free type of situation ? How far is too far , how extreme is too extreme in defense of our way of life ?

 

[roabilly]

Henderfuzz I don't know how things are in your station but in CLT we are anything but divided. I have been here for 23 years and have never seen this group so united on any issue. The determination is something to see. We are standing strong as a group and it is a beautiful thing.

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Couldn't ahh said it better myself... Mr. Dirt !

I agree... Tha boy's here have been ahh case study in solidarity !

PHL...... yew listin' ?

 

[Henderfuzz]

Henderfuzz I don't know how things are in your station but in CLT we are anything but divided. I have been here for 23 years and have never seen this group so united on any issue. The determination is something to see. We are standing strong as a group and it is a beautiful thing.

I tell you how my station is we are sick and tired of working for dirt wages. We had a chance to make better wages back in Sept. Yes I know your going to tell me it was a piece of crap.
Well our station voted it in.
Now here we are the company has called our bluff, no more COC to go thru we gave away our advantage so called with that, and now the west and class 2 our stuck until someone in the hubs decides we are allowed to make the same wages as you guys. Im tired of this second class crap.
As I said before lets just close the doors on this place and let someone else have it.

 

[roabilly]

I think the union’s proposal was reasonable , VERY reasonable …. If this company wants to fall on it’s own sword ,then by all means lets help put some weight into the fall!

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Freedom....

I agree to an extent....

Tha Unions closin' in on whut would be considered....
"Legacy Industry Standards". At least they know not tahh
even try 'n bring back anything less....

That's why they walked out !

Keep 'um solid out west... we are one big solid Fleet Service family !

 

[Districtforce]

Tim what you want just makes no sense. To have the west guys go for section 6.
Contrary to what some may say I doubt there would be much support for it.
What we should do is accept that sorry AXX offer that the company made and get ready for a fight in 2009 and beyond. That way we will be a trully unified group under one contract.
Not only that but it would at least give the west guys some kind of pay raise for the time being one that they desperatly need, not to metion the class 2 cities.
I read what the company proposal was and it stank however they did not take out the COC language nor did they give up any cities, nor did it extend the contract. As you know if you read its just exactly what we have now including the profit sharing.
This is a long fight but we need to become one group under one contract so we can all fight together.

Henderfuzz, I commend you for understanding that this isn't the time to fight. Nor is this the time to support the new direction team over Randy Canale. Randy has protected your union wages and benefits and has also saved the west members from losing their union membership altogether.

Labor strife is the last thing your company needs. Nobody is saying that the company offer is acceptable but there is no other choice but to wait till 2009. Commencing section 6 talks with the company will not do anything other than threaten a breakdown in negotiations and risk losing potential investors. If we started section 6 negotiations, your company may threaten to stop transition talks and then drag out section 6 talks for years. Our members do not want that and they realize now isn't the time to pound the chest.

There are some hills that we wouldn't want to die on. What's done is done and your company will never sign on to bring back those that were affected by the 60 day rule. Your company isn't going to agree to double time since this was a permanent concession. You must realize this is a low cost carrier with a cost neutral position. We must move forward though for the majoriy of our members. Your west negotiators are on the same page as Randy and they have indicated strongly that the west members aren't interested in section 6 talks but instead understand that their best choice is to support Randy Canale merging the two work groups.
Tim Nelson is not a Local Chairman, he's not even a member in good standing. But him and some east leaders in PHL and CLT don't understand that the best solution is to merge the west into the east. Unfortunately there is now division on the negotiations team that will not allow Randy Canale to merge the two groups.
Your assessment is right on, if everyone was under one contract, there would be solidarity and we would be better prepared to fight in 2009. Now there are just some individuals running for office that are putting their personal agenda ahead of the membership, and the end result is a workforce that is totally divided. The company is now preying on this division that Nelson and the new direction has created, so don't blame Randy Canale, blame those members who are after political gains. Now is the time to support Randy Canale, but Randy can't do anything when the company sees his own membership fighting with him.

I recommend you challenge those who are representing you and let them know that you believe in a transition agreement that will position your company to participate in the upcoming mergers. Until the workforce can support Randy Canale, you will continue to fall prey to the divisions of those few individuals who wear leather and talk big but are only self serving. You can blame those types when you have to line up at office depot for a job because your company wanted to participate in a merger but wasn't allowed to because of labor strife. Things are going to continue going downhill for fleet service and the proposals from the company will get worse until fleet service finally learns to support Randy Canale over internet posters who are after only personal gain.

 

[JoeDirt]

I tell you how my station is we are sick and tired of working for dirt wages. We had a chance to make better wages back in Sept. Yes I know your going to tell me it was a piece of crap.
Well our station voted it in.
Now here we are the company has called our bluff, no more COC to go thru we gave away our advantage so called with that, and now the west and class 2 our stuck until someone in the hubs decides we are allowed to make the same wages as you guys. Im tired of this second class crap.
As I said before lets just close the doors on this place and let someone else have it.

Fuzz
I want this airline to work. I could very easily do something else and probably make more money doing it but the truth is I love my job. The people I work with are top notch people and I enjoy working with them. I enjoy going to work everyday and how many people can say that after 20 + years. There was a time when I was very proud to wear the uniform and I want that back. I am good at what I do and my experence is worth ever penny. When the company realizes this and treats us with the respect we have earned, this company will once again be something to behold and once again we can proudly say "I WORK FOR USAIRWAYS".I am not a "koolaid" drinker just maybe "old school".

 

[The Bagfather]

Tim what you want just makes no sense. To have the west guys go for section 6.
Contrary to what some may say I doubt there would be much support for it.
What we should do is accept that sorry AXX offer that the company made and get ready for a fight in 2009 and beyond. That way we will be a trully unified group under one contract.
Not only that but it would at least give the west guys some kind of pay raise for the time being one that they desperatly need, not to metion the class 2 cities.
I read what the company proposal was and it stank however they did not take out the COC language nor did they give up any cities, nor did it extend the contract. As you know if you read its just exactly what we have now including the profit sharing.
This is a long fight but we need to become one group under one contract so we can all fight together.

Fuzz: The support for section 6 would be massive and profound. Not however
from Canale and RR. Look at that last company offer. That was the kind of offer
which represents a complete distain for canale and his section 6 non-agenda.
What's the alternative for the west? I do not want to be part of the BK contract.
Nor do I want a TA which is not even close to the quality of the TWU contract.
Thanks BF

 

[roabilly]

I retract my original stament regardin' amendable dates.

The IAM proposal contains tha followin' duration language...

Article 31 (Duration) The CBA will be amended to remain in full force and
effect through July 1, 2011, and thereafter unless and untill reopened in accordance with the Railway Labor Act.

Future section 6 could go on for sometime after that date.

So apologizes.... Roabilly

 

[necigrad]

Anyone that thinks "most of the West" isn't for Section 6 is smoking crack. Canales attempt at a transition agreement bringing both workgroups together instead of negotiating Section 6 has been a complete and total failure. It may even have been a step back. Negotiate Section 6, and get an ammendable date of December 31, 2009. Add in the duration that Section 6 at that time shall be for both workgroups to transition to that agreement together in Section 6. The way it's going right now Canale has succeded in getting the East nothing and cost the West Section 6.

As to replacing Mendenhall, he has already been asked to step down. He refused. Granted it took a lot of stuttering and vowels to say "No" but he did refuse. We're stuck with that useless pile of blood, bone (no backbone though), skin, and hair until November.

 

[JoeDirt]

Henderfuzz, I commend you for understanding that this isn't the time to fight. Nor is this the time to support the new direction team over Randy Canale. Randy has protected your union wages and benefits and has also saved the west members from losing their union membership altogether.

Labor strife is the last thing your company needs. Nobody is saying that the company offer is acceptable but there is no other choice but to wait till 2009. Commencing section 6 talks with the company will not do anything other than threaten a breakdown in negotiations and risk losing potential investors. If we started section 6 negotiations, your company may threaten to stop transition talks and then drag out section 6 talks for years. Our members do not want that and they realize now isn't the time to pound the chest.

There are some hills that we wouldn't want to die on. What's done is done and your company will never sign on to bring back those that were affected by the 60 day rule. Your company isn't going to agree to double time since this was a permanent concession. You must realize this is a low cost carrier with a cost neutral position. We must move forward though for the majoriy of our members. Your west negotiators are on the same page as Randy and they have indicated strongly that the west members aren't interested in section 6 talks but instead understand that their best choice is to support Randy Canale merging the two work groups.
Tim Nelson is not a Local Chairman, he's not even a member in good standing. But him and some east leaders in PHL and CLT don't understand that the best solution is to merge the west into the east. Unfortunately there is now division on the negotiations team that will not allow Randy Canale to merge the two groups.
Your assessment is right on, if everyone was under one contract, there would be solidarity and we would be better prepared to fight in 2009. Now there are just some individuals running for office that are putting their personal agenda ahead of the membership, and the end result is a workforce that is totally divided. The company is now preying on this division that Nelson and the new direction has created, so don't blame Randy Canale, blame those members who are after political gains. Now is the time to support Randy Canale, but Randy can't do anything when the company sees his own membership fighting with him.

I recommend you challenge those who are representing you and let them know that you believe in a transition agreement that will position your company to participate in the upcoming mergers. Until the workforce can support Randy Canale, you will continue to fall prey to the divisions of those few individuals who wear leather and talk big but are only self serving. You can blame those types when you have to line up at office depot for a job because your company wanted to participate in a merger but wasn't allowed to because of labor strife. Things are going to continue going downhill for fleet service and the proposals from the company will get worse until fleet service finally learns to support Randy Canale over internet posters who are after only personal gain.

This is typical of the Canale supporters. They want you to believe their propaganda and it has no basis in facts. The F/S is strong and united from coast to coast. This statement is so full of holes that it will not even float in a toliet. It is not even worth the time to pick it apart.

I support the call for Section 6 neg. for the West.

 

[roabilly]

Do any ya'll see any amendable dates in tha Company proposal ?

And by tha way...

that Co. proposal sux... thanks MF and whomever stood thier ground !

 

[necigrad]

Just for grins, I've pulled a quote from the appeal decision regarding the former Trump workers after their merger with US Airways:

“[A] union may not,
12 without a legitimate purpose, take action favoring some of its
13 members at the expense of others.â€￾ Teamsters Local Union No. 42
14 v. NLRB, 825 F.2d 608, 611 (1st Cir. 1987) (citing Laborers and
15 Hod Carriers Local No. 341 v. NLRB, 564 F.2d 834, 840 (9th Cir.
16 1977); Barton Brands, Ltd. v. NLRB, 529 F.2d 793, 800 (7th Cir.
17 1976)).

I believe the IAM is forgoing Section 6, which would be of TREMENDOUS benefit to the West employees, to get the East employees more then they have now, at West expense. In a top out situation, at BEST a topped out West employee on the East contract would break even. The raises they get would be negated by loss of sick pay, vacation, and insurance. I am NOT suggesting the East employees don't deserve bettern then what they have now. They do. But it's illegal (in my non legal educated opinion) to give the East at the expense of the West.

 

[roabilly]

Mr. Force...

When yahh quit callin' us ahh low cost carrier ? I'll have tahh repost
our last conversation regardin' that !

 

[JoeDirt]

Just for grins, I've pulled a quote from the appeal decision regarding the former Trump workers after their merger with US Airways:



I believe the IAM is forgoing Section 6, which would be of TREMENDOUS benefit to the West employees, to get the East employees more then they have now, at West expense. In a top out situation, at BEST a topped out West employee on the East contract would break even. The raises they get would be negated by loss of sick pay, vacation, and insurance. I am NOT suggesting the East employees don't deserve bettern then what they have now. They do. But it's illegal (in my non legal educated opinion) to give the East at the expense of the West.

My insurance cost alone last year was almost $3500.00 and it will go up this year. How much are you guys paying out west?

 

[Districtforce]

Anyone that thinks "most of the West" isn't for Section 6 is smoking crack. Canales attempt at a transition agreement bringing both workgroups together instead of negotiating Section 6 has been a complete and total failure. It may even have been a step back. Negotiate Section 6, and get an ammendable date of December 31, 2009. Add in the duration that Section 6 at that time shall be for both workgroups to transition to that agreement together in Section 6. The way it's going right now Canale has succeded in getting the East nothing and cost the West Section 6.

As to replacing Mendenhall, he has already been asked to step down. He refused. Granted it took a lot of stuttering and vowels to say "No" but he did refuse. We're stuck with that useless pile of blood, bone (no backbone though), skin, and hair until November.

The company will never agree to section 6. Your west negotiators understand this and the best solution is transition talks. Anyone who tells you that the company would consider section 6 is far removed from reality. This industry is changing rapidly and there isn't enough time to change course in negotiations.
If you people want to follow internet posters who wear leather then see you in the office depot application line.