IAM topic of the week

[mike33]

SO,

Parker speaks....who's listening.......

WE SHOULD BE:

Consolidation for consolidation sake is not necessarily a good thing," Parker told reporters at a media event at the carrier's Tempe headquarters. "To take two airlines and just put them together and not create efficiencies by flying to all the same places with fewer airplanes doesn't create the value you need."

Some industry observers have speculated that if Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. combine, they might not cut a significant number of flights because their systems have little overlap.

Parker said that kind of deal wouldn't make much sense. "If that's the case, they're not increasing opportunity for anybody," he said.

For years, Parker has praised the benefits of consolidation in the industry. With fewer carriers in the sky, airlines will be able to pack more people on planes, maximizing the amount of money they can make per flight.
You've got to go through and do what we did," he said. "This does not, by the way, mean you stop flying to certain cities. We're still flying to the same cities we served as US Airways and America West. We just do it a lot more efficiently. We do it with fewer airplanes."

( And less of our own employees. Hence the Outsourcing language )

 

[orioleman]

mike33,

I think if AL was running the show for PSA instead working as a ramper, he would have probably had the company take the smile off the nose..

Him and Al Crellin give you laaaaiiddddddd back C.A cats a bad name..

 

[mike33]

mike33,

I think if AL was running the show for PSA instead working as a ramper, he would have probably had the company take the smile off the nose..

Him and Al Crellin give you laaaaiiddddddd back C.A cats a bad name..

I never imagined a dream like this .....well, it is what it is.........I won't go down without a fight, you can take that to the beach.............

 

[Tim Nelson]

mike33,

I think if AL was running the show for PSA instead working as a ramper, he would have probably had the company take the smile off the nose..

Him and Al Crellin give you laaaaiiddddddd back C.A cats a bad name..

O'man, how'd things go today at the CLT rally? Was Hogs N Pigs there?

Letter to AL

New Direction Team 'new website'

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS STANDING IN SOLIDARITY:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They's posters that frequent these here forums tahh calculatedly enter posts that attempt tahh engage us in “Negative Psychological Warfare†or NPW.

Their posts are designed tahh confuse, distract, instill doubt, and fear intahh tha membership.

These posters are “plantsâ€ahh unknown origin, and are simply tryin’ tahh weaken our resolve with lengthy well written diatribes. They generally attempt tahh convince yahh of negative aspects regardin’ yer collective bargaining stature.

I would like fer y’all tahh write tha followin’ questions down, or simply copy ‘n paste
um in tahh a word file. When these posters appear in our forum and attempt to engage yahh in debate… simply post these questions for um to answer before havin’ any further communication with um !

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question 1: Are you a member of the Fleet Service Classification (Yes or No)

Question 2: Should the Fleet Service Classification accept any future
collective bargaining agreement, which is considered less than the current legacy
carrier industry standard? (Yes or No)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use tha below samples of their response tahh determine it they ahh NPW.

Question 1: No or no answer = NPW
Question 2: Yes or no answer = NPW

Question 1: Yes = one ahh us!
Question 2: No = one ahh us!


Mr. Districtforce, Jester, 'n Shocker… please report to us… if ya’ll run intahh any these NPW’s !

Dear Gentle Roabilly,

I am at times uncertain as to your written dialectic in a Tom Sawyerseque manner as to take you seriously, but since you have repeated your question then I will assume you to be an inquiring man.

Of course, much of what I have learned about ground operations has been done over the several years working on the ramp in-between snoozes on the bag room couch. (By the way, does anyone go near that couch anymore given the bad reputation I have given it within this forum?) I have never been a supervisor or even a temp supervisor as those poor souls are not being paid nearly enough to baby sit too many rampers. However, I have worked within management before outside of the aviation industry and managed employees within unionized and non-unionized organizations. For the record, our middle managers are a disaster, and I have absolutely present no desire to be part the management group at US Airways. Furthermore, I have never been even as so much as a shop steward, and certainly, nothing higher within any union organization.

As for "ma edjewmachation", without going into details, to paraphrase what I told 700UW once in this forum, we (ramp agents) aren't all a bunch of dumb asses as some of us are PhD's, CPA's, lawyers, MBA's, teachers, writers, architects, design engineers, current or pass business owners, nurses, accountants, pilots, networking computer consultants, scientists, and there has even been a medical doctor or two.

I have been on both sides of the labor and management spectrum, so I fully understand there can be plenty of lousy managers with an axe to grind for which an union can simplify a process instead of resorting to legal action in an unfair termination or prevent Management from making false promises based upon years of service only to be fired shortly before being vested. However, I also from the vantage point of my bag room couch, I have seen plenty of poor employees who are more of a liability than an asset to an organization and should probably be terminated, but the union will protect those employees even to the point that employee is a danger to themselves, their co-workers, and the traveling public. While to be certain many will disagree with me in here, I believe that I have a balanced approach to both sides.

Finally, as to the wage issue, I am a free market advocate, and I am certain that you will not agree with my competitive approach to wages along with my view that our current bargaining unit equates to being an attempted labor cartel or an oligopoly. In terms of what other airline ramp agents are making within the legacy carriers, I heard from an United buddy who thinks they are looking at pay cuts during their next round of negotiations which might be more in line with what Management has been proposing and the future for other airline ramp operations.

So Expounds Jester.

 

[freedom]

To: Fleet Service Employees
Re: This Week’s IAM Negotiations
From: Al Hemenway, VP-Labor Relations
February 27, 2008

Etc Etc so on and so forth your letter …..

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am with your performance , I won’t bother going into specifics , but your failing this company and it’s workers with your inability to sign labor agreements , labor relations are getting worse by the day .

Al I would hope that your paying attention to the political developments within fleet service and the other labor unions , the hardliners are coming to power .If you think we’re far apart NOW , how much further do you think we will be once the “New Direction “ team comes to power ? The longer you continue to negotiate as if the COC had just been lost yesterday and bankruptcy was some type of endless existence the worse your going to make our labor problems at this already troubled company .

I understand the need to keep costs down and remain competitive , but if you look at our stats , we’re at the bottom when compared to every major airline and the sad thing is , what we’re asking for as far as pay and benefits would most likely still keep us at the bottom , just not as far below …

So far there have been limited “incidents†, as time passes those problems are only going to multiply ..There’s only so much the human psyche can stand , and we in the west have reached breaking point … I myself am quickly coming to the point of either I disengage from this fight or just go insane … I know others that have taken the latter route . There’s an old saying , nothing to lose , everything to gain …


On behalf of us airways , I hope and pray that you can learn to better negotiate with the employee groups .


ne·go·ti·ate

ne·go·ti·ate [nə gṓshee àyt]
(past ne·go·ti·at·ed, past participle ne·go·ti·at·ed, present participle ne·go·ti·at·ing, 3rd person present singular ne·go·ti·ates)
v
1. V to discuss terms of agreement: to attempt to come to an agreement on something through discussion and compromise

 

[mike33]

Jester, Jester, Jester....

We do appreciate you coming down to "earth" from the heavens to educate the masses here on proper pronuciation and writing skills, but we are humans

with just a little inteligence also. You might want to try "uranus". Your kind of experience, they are lacking.

 

[JoeDirt]

Dear Gentle Roabilly,

I am at times uncertain as to your written dialectic in a Tom Sawyerseque manner as to take you seriously, but since you have repeated your question then I will assume you to be an inquiring man.

Of course, much of what I have learned about ground operations has been done over the several years working on the ramp in-between snoozes on the bag room couch. (By the way, does anyone go near that couch anymore given the bad reputation I have given it within this forum?) I have never been a supervisor or even a temp supervisor as those poor souls are not being paid nearly enough to baby sit too many rampers. However, I have worked within management before outside of the aviation industry and managed employees within unionized and non-unionized organizations. For the record, our middle managers are a disaster, and I have absolutely present no desire to be part the management group at US Airways. Furthermore, I have never been even as so much as a shop steward, and certainly, nothing higher within any union organization.

As for "ma edjewmachation", without going into details, to paraphrase what I told 700UW once in this forum, we (ramp agents) aren't all a bunch of dumb asses as some of us are PhD's, CPA's, lawyers, MBA's, teachers, writers, architects, design engineers, current or pass business owners, nurses, accountants, pilots, networking computer consultants, scientists, and there has even been a medical doctor or two.

I have been on both sides of the labor and management spectrum, so I fully understand there can be plenty of lousy managers with an axe to grind for which an union can simplify a process instead of resorting to legal action in an unfair termination or prevent Management from making false promises based upon years of service only to be fired shortly before being vested. However, I also from the vantage point of my bag room couch, I have seen plenty of poor employees who are more of a liability than an asset to an organization and should probably be terminated, but the union will protect those employees even to the point that employee is a danger to themselves, their co-workers, and the traveling public. While to be certain many will disagree with me in here, I believe that I have a balanced approach to both sides.

Finally, as to the wage issue, I am a free market advocate, and I am certain that you will not agree with my competitive approach to wages along with my view that our current bargaining unit equates to being an attempted labor cartel or an oligopoly. In terms of what other airline ramp agents are making within the legacy carriers, I heard from an United buddy who thinks they are looking at pay cuts during their next round of negotiations which might be more in line with what Management has been proposing and the future for other airline ramp operations.

So Expounds Jester.

There is one of the major problems with managements "revolving door" policy. There was a time when you had to know someone to get a job with a major airline. The jobs were highly sought after and therefore only the cream of the crop were chosen. The airline industry was a career path that one chose to persue. When you have hired people just to fill a roster you get the people who don't care and in doing so they are endangering everyone.

 

[orioleman]

Tim,
I was off this A.M, but my understanding clt's next AGC did a fine fine job getting the troops together last minute..

I'm sure the pigs were lurking and sulking..

 

[orioleman]

jester,
"However, I have worked within management before outside of the aviation industry and managed employees within unionized and non-unionized organizations"

so how's that worked out for ya..

not to good seeing your a lowly ramper making 10 or 11 bucks an hour.. I would think a man of your knowledge and talent would

be able to find something a little better


so interprets jesters resume

 

[Jester]

jester,
"However, I have worked within management before outside of the aviation industry and managed employees within unionized and non-unionized organizations"

so how's that worked out for ya.. not to good seeing your a lowly ramper making 10 or 11 bucks an hour.. I would think a man of your knowledge and talent would be able to find something a little better


so interprets jesters resume

Oh, O-man, I could almost taste your envy.

I couldn't afford to work here full time, even at the East pay scale. You might surmise that I have "something a little better" separate from mashing bags. I do this mostly for Shiites and Giggles.

So Educates Jester.

 

[The Bagfather]

Jester: Thank you for your Jestorial. However I find much
of your Jesticulations to be without Jestification.

To call our current bargaining unit an "attempted labor cartel "
or an" oligopoly" is sophomoric. You may argue for the
benifits of a free market system but any such argument is
tangential to our current situation. And why is not a union
not considered part of your free market. We have freely
organized and are now part of the free market. Free to bargain
collectively.

Also Sprach Der Sackenfater

 

[Jester]

Jester: Thank you for your Jestorial. However I find much
of your Jesticulations to be without Jestification.

To call our current bargaining unit an "attempted labor cartel "
or an" oligopoly" is sophomoric. You may argue for the
benifits of a free market system but any such argument is
tangential to our current situation. And why is not a union
not considered part of your free market. We have freely
organized and are now part of the free market. Free to bargain
collectively.

Also Sprach Der Sackenfater

Just as OPEC is free to bargain collectively? Which is true as they are not subject to US laws, but otherwise, typically speaking collective price fixing and limiting competition within industry are Federal crimes subject to heavy fines and prison time.

However, just because it is legal to create an union for the express purpose to gain economic bargaining leverage (just as the purpose of most oligopolies to restrict free and open markets), does not mean that a "labor cartel" cannot exist. Only difference being it is legal, but it does not change the underlying economic results of inefficiencies and higher prices for the public. An union for the express purpose to create higher wages would be the antithesis to a free market as the only way they may maintain those higher wages would be through the restriction or the elimination of competition, because the employer would find cheaper substitutes (i.e. vendors, subcontractors, automation, non-union workers, etc.) and would replace those workers positions. Thus, there are no more free market of workers collectively joining together than of banks, oil companies, grocery stores, etc. joining together (or merging together or buying-out each other) in order to greatly limit or severely restrict the availability and price of goods or services as a free market demands free and open competition. Where there is no competition, there can be no free market.

So Hypothesizes Jester.

P.S. Was ist dieser Sackenfater?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jester: Thank you for your Jestorial. However I find much
of your Jesticulations to be without Jestification.

To call our current bargaining unit an "attempted labor cartel "
or an" oligopoly" is sophomoric. You may argue for the
benifits of a free market system but any such argument is
tangential to our current situation. And why is not a union
not considered part of your free market. We have freely
organized and are now part of the free market. Free to bargain
collectively.

Also Sprach Der Sackenfater

The free market recognizes professional service and you get your reward for what you pay for. Continental and Delta rampers make significantly more than Jester, and Delta been through bankruptcy and came out much better. I'm not sure what to make of all his free market, labor cartel's babble. Rampers who collectively bargain make significantly more, even United who was in bankruptcy. We have the same entitlement since solidarity now exists. Not that we weren't entitled to a fair wage when we weren't solid but now we are coming to collect it.

Letter to Al

Website

regards,
Tim Nelson, email
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Richard]

This one is diverting a little thanks to Jester. Let's remember to keep on topic, and not make our comments about other posters.

More importantly however, we have decided to split IAM into two topics--M&R and Fleet Service. Please continue your respective discussions in the new threads starting today.

And PLEASE remember that there is only one thread allowed per week per work group and that only moderators can start labor related threads. This is done to prevent duplicate discussions of the same subjects and to help keep the board readable and easy to navigate.

Thanks.