IAM Fleet Service topic
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orioleman
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save
welcome to the board
1st . If the company wants to bring up guys under our contract thats fine.. HOWEVER the COMPANY wants to go into our (east) contract and take things away that we neg . and
lost many bene's to get They also want to extend this BK contract . so that you guys can come in . MY friend . thats not going to happen the east is done getting whored out
by the company and the IAM . like I said . if uncle AL wants to pay you guys our wages .. great . I am all for that .. BUT uncle AL isn't going through my pockets to do it.
welcome to the board
1st . If the company wants to bring up guys under our contract thats fine.. HOWEVER the COMPANY wants to go into our (east) contract and take things away that we neg . and
lost many bene's to get They also want to extend this BK contract . so that you guys can come in . MY friend . thats not going to happen the east is done getting whored out
by the company and the IAM . like I said . if uncle AL wants to pay you guys our wages .. great . I am all for that .. BUT uncle AL isn't going through my pockets to do it.
doing it on my knees
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Save708,
Hold on to your hat because the venom is gonna come flyin at ya. I too read this board for a long time and decided to chime in not too long ago. I would recommend you never use the word westie or eastie, just so that we can get that prejudice out of the way. We're all US employees now and it sux going through this but the more senior US employees do have the numbers, and as a former HP employees, we need to show even more patience, and even more so solidarity with those guy/gals, because this really might be a while.
Welcome to the boards
Hold on to your hat because the venom is gonna come flyin at ya. I too read this board for a long time and decided to chime in not too long ago. I would recommend you never use the word westie or eastie, just so that we can get that prejudice out of the way. We're all US employees now and it sux going through this but the more senior US employees do have the numbers, and as a former HP employees, we need to show even more patience, and even more so solidarity with those guy/gals, because this really might be a while.
Welcome to the boards
pjirish317
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save708AW,
Welcome to the board.
First off, it's not the East holding the West hostage, it's canoli and the I'LL ASK MANAGEMENT. You guys out West should have had an agreement already, sadly canoli shelved your traditional section 6 negotiations, only to pursue a transition agreement. Which has gotten us nowhere as of yet. The east wants the west equal with us. All we are asking for is that it be a "fair and equitable" agreement for ALL, not just the east or the west or the hubs, but for ALL.
Oman,
beat you to the top o the page again. :bleh: :mf_boff: :bleh:
Jealous.
Welcome to the board.
First off, it's not the East holding the West hostage, it's canoli and the I'LL ASK MANAGEMENT. You guys out West should have had an agreement already, sadly canoli shelved your traditional section 6 negotiations, only to pursue a transition agreement. Which has gotten us nowhere as of yet. The east wants the west equal with us. All we are asking for is that it be a "fair and equitable" agreement for ALL, not just the east or the west or the hubs, but for ALL.
Oman,
beat you to the top o the page again. :bleh: :mf_boff: :bleh:
Jealous.
The Bagfather
Senior
Welcome "Save". BTW why does 708AW need to be saved?
IMO you have struck the nail on the head as to one of the main
problems we face. Let me see if I can address some of the issues
you raised.
As far as the west being "signed over" to the east contract, that's
really more complicated than it sounds. No one has offered a
diffinative explanation as to how this could work. Since the
west contract would be drastically altered It may require a vote.
As someone in a field station getting geo diff along with all the
other negatives I don't think I'd be for it. Some of the West
Stations are getting up to 20% Geo diff pay. They are going to
lose big in practically any scenario. But were talking (wild guess}
about 300 FS workers.
It is a fact that you are grossly underpaid. It is also a fact that
class II east stations are underpaid. There are two reasons for
this: 1. The east is opporating under a contract negotiated in
bankrupcy and. 2. The west's contact became amendable
right around the time of the merger.
There were three possible solutions to these discrepencies:
1. For the east they had a COC clause in thier contract precisely
for such an occurence. However the language turned out to be full
of holes. At any rate the arbitrator followed all of the company's
reasoning and ruled against the east. But I don't think that this
ruling has much to do with what the east feels they desearve.
2. The IAM could have continued with section 6 negs on the TWU
contract or any time could have opened up negs. (including right now)
Now this proceedure has very complicated ramifications which
the union has been very responsible in pointing out exactly none
of them. But at any rate to date the IAM has been unwilling to go
this route.
3. A TA proposal. If youv'e been reading this board you have
seen the problems with that.
As to your situation I don't think short of solution 2 that any thing
is going to bring relief. I would not expect the class I east stations
or the geo paid west stations to give up what they desearve in
any new TA. Even if a new TA comes out that passes the west
hubs will get nothing in terms of back pay.
Since I have been tossing these Ideas around I have grown to
appreciate the issues in broader terms trying to understand this
from all perspectives( company-union-east I- east II- west field-
west hubs- west geo stations- east emp working west stations-
fulloughed emp et. al.) Also from my perspective patience is
key. Any choices made or not made have huge implications
down the road.
Take care BF
IMO you have struck the nail on the head as to one of the main
problems we face. Let me see if I can address some of the issues
you raised.
As far as the west being "signed over" to the east contract, that's
really more complicated than it sounds. No one has offered a
diffinative explanation as to how this could work. Since the
west contract would be drastically altered It may require a vote.
As someone in a field station getting geo diff along with all the
other negatives I don't think I'd be for it. Some of the West
Stations are getting up to 20% Geo diff pay. They are going to
lose big in practically any scenario. But were talking (wild guess}
about 300 FS workers.
It is a fact that you are grossly underpaid. It is also a fact that
class II east stations are underpaid. There are two reasons for
this: 1. The east is opporating under a contract negotiated in
bankrupcy and. 2. The west's contact became amendable
right around the time of the merger.
There were three possible solutions to these discrepencies:
1. For the east they had a COC clause in thier contract precisely
for such an occurence. However the language turned out to be full
of holes. At any rate the arbitrator followed all of the company's
reasoning and ruled against the east. But I don't think that this
ruling has much to do with what the east feels they desearve.
2. The IAM could have continued with section 6 negs on the TWU
contract or any time could have opened up negs. (including right now)
Now this proceedure has very complicated ramifications which
the union has been very responsible in pointing out exactly none
of them. But at any rate to date the IAM has been unwilling to go
this route.
3. A TA proposal. If youv'e been reading this board you have
seen the problems with that.
As to your situation I don't think short of solution 2 that any thing
is going to bring relief. I would not expect the class I east stations
or the geo paid west stations to give up what they desearve in
any new TA. Even if a new TA comes out that passes the west
hubs will get nothing in terms of back pay.
Since I have been tossing these Ideas around I have grown to
appreciate the issues in broader terms trying to understand this
from all perspectives( company-union-east I- east II- west field-
west hubs- west geo stations- east emp working west stations-
fulloughed emp et. al.) Also from my perspective patience is
key. Any choices made or not made have huge implications
down the road.
Take care BF
Question ??? Didn't the moderators ask for the fleet to stick to thier own
thread and Mech. to stick to thiers ? I see many posts asking ''700'' to go post
his or her thoughts on the proper thread for his or her concerns. ''700'' are you affiliated
with the Fleet group or Maintenance ? and if fleet I believe your posts are fine but
if your tied to the maintenance dept. why are you posting on this thread ? Your posts'
can only be believed as deceptive as you have no fight here. Just my thoughts, I'm fleet
out of PHL and enjoy reading different opinions from my fellow co-workers but I'm guessing
your not one of them.
ohh, and welcome ''Save''
bob
thread and Mech. to stick to thiers ? I see many posts asking ''700'' to go post
his or her thoughts on the proper thread for his or her concerns. ''700'' are you affiliated
with the Fleet group or Maintenance ? and if fleet I believe your posts are fine but
if your tied to the maintenance dept. why are you posting on this thread ? Your posts'
can only be believed as deceptive as you have no fight here. Just my thoughts, I'm fleet
out of PHL and enjoy reading different opinions from my fellow co-workers but I'm guessing
your not one of them.
ohh, and welcome ''Save''
bob
save708,
I am also a westie in a HUB formerly from a field station. We cannot just think about ourselves in the hubs and say just put us under the east agreement, it would bring layoffs and severe loss in benefits. Think about some of your former co-workers who have transferred to a field station or think about someone who has come from a field station and all of their former co-workers and friends. Do we need money, yes but at what cost, we cannot give up more than what they are willing to give us in return.
Nelson,
I do like the NWA agreement for field stations, but with a twist, it should also read that if an opening does occur it will be posted system wide for transfer if no one chooses to transfer the company may fill the vacancy at their discretion. Im sure alot of people who have moved recently or past may want to go back some day to where they started.
I am also a westie in a HUB formerly from a field station. We cannot just think about ourselves in the hubs and say just put us under the east agreement, it would bring layoffs and severe loss in benefits. Think about some of your former co-workers who have transferred to a field station or think about someone who has come from a field station and all of their former co-workers and friends. Do we need money, yes but at what cost, we cannot give up more than what they are willing to give us in return.
Nelson,
I do like the NWA agreement for field stations, but with a twist, it should also read that if an opening does occur it will be posted system wide for transfer if no one chooses to transfer the company may fill the vacancy at their discretion. Im sure alot of people who have moved recently or past may want to go back some day to where they started.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Whoa, hey I don't like it at all, BUT, after reviewing each proposal from Randy Canale, he himself is offering up the 19 west stations with his famous 'drop dead' language that has now become an industry trend. Hemenway knows Canale's character and has continuously 'squeezed' Canale like an orange to get more stations.
My mentioning of the grandfather rights was because, since the mechanic proposal is out, our negotiations team needs to 'retool' its new proposal back to the company. Certainly I can agree with you that any opening should go to an IAM member but with transition stations, that language may be difficult. Let's just hope that our negotiations team doesn't make a 'jack a$$' out of itself again by bringing us back another enema with some of the same goofy things in it like the 'drop dead' language.
The good thing is that Canale and crew will be kicked out in June so this insanity shouldn't go on much longer.
regards,
Tim Nelson
Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
orioleman
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Bob ,
Your hunce is right . 700 is a former utility / stores employee that got thrown under the bus by his beloved union
but is still and active member of the IAM (I'm guessing there) and feels enthralled to give his expert advice on everything from dumping lavs
to flying airplanes. may I suggest you just put him on ignore.
Your hunce is right . 700 is a former utility / stores employee that got thrown under the bus by his beloved union
but is still and active member of the IAM (I'm guessing there) and feels enthralled to give his expert advice on everything from dumping lavs
to flying airplanes. may I suggest you just put him on ignore.
Welcome save. I miss 708 as well.
First off, I need to comment about this quote. If this is accurate you need to RUN to the first shop steward you see and file a grievance. I've been ith AWA for 9 1/2 years and am at $12.65/hour WITHOUT lead pay.
The issue of time and negotiations is a huge mess. I voted FOR the September TA to "stop the bleeding". By my calculations I was losing $350/check by not being on the East contract. That factored in the loss of vacation, holiday, sick pay, increased insurance... I'm not na expert, so I might have been wrong, but I don't think so. When that TA got voted down, my position changed for several reasons. First, I've been educated. A topped out West employee will LOSE money by going to the East contract. Second, I gove them their chance. Now I've lost all that money every check and I am going to do what is in my power to get it back. I'm hopeful (maybe too optimisticly) that we might see Section 6. Section 6 should not be allowed without retro. The company has been making a fortune while Canale and Hemenway dick around with this transition for 2 years. That money needs to come back to us. With patience it might.
The machanics are getting raises proposed. We got raises proposed. There is no reason we won't get that again. Oil prices are a crock of #### excuse. If the company wants to use that excuse, then they need to allow us to benefit when oil goes back down. They won't, so it's not leverage. If you hold your ground you will et what you deserve, but it takes teamwork. I hard a rumor that PHX is 100% for going to the East contract. I hope I heard incorrectly.
First off, I need to comment about this quote. If this is accurate you need to RUN to the first shop steward you see and file a grievance. I've been ith AWA for 9 1/2 years and am at $12.65/hour WITHOUT lead pay.
The issue of time and negotiations is a huge mess. I voted FOR the September TA to "stop the bleeding". By my calculations I was losing $350/check by not being on the East contract. That factored in the loss of vacation, holiday, sick pay, increased insurance... I'm not na expert, so I might have been wrong, but I don't think so. When that TA got voted down, my position changed for several reasons. First, I've been educated. A topped out West employee will LOSE money by going to the East contract. Second, I gove them their chance. Now I've lost all that money every check and I am going to do what is in my power to get it back. I'm hopeful (maybe too optimisticly) that we might see Section 6. Section 6 should not be allowed without retro. The company has been making a fortune while Canale and Hemenway dick around with this transition for 2 years. That money needs to come back to us. With patience it might.
The machanics are getting raises proposed. We got raises proposed. There is no reason we won't get that again. Oil prices are a crock of #### excuse. If the company wants to use that excuse, then they need to allow us to benefit when oil goes back down. They won't, so it's not leverage. If you hold your ground you will et what you deserve, but it takes teamwork. I hard a rumor that PHX is 100% for going to the East contract. I hope I heard incorrectly.
lithuanian
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I LOVE the concern ALL of us have given! AND! WE KNOW IAM and COMPANY are watching.
THE 31st is the first day of the very last of negotiations. IAM VS COMPANY for FLEET! And! If it results in less than deserved, the company can pay the consequences!
Fleet and Mechanics will not be compromised!
THE 31st is the first day of the very last of negotiations. IAM VS COMPANY for FLEET! And! If it results in less than deserved, the company can pay the consequences!
Fleet and Mechanics will not be compromised!
lithuanian
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This is posted for the mechanics also. We as workers, fleet or otherwise in America create a presence to the rest of the world. We set the standard. America can not sell workers SHORT!
I hope you and your family are well. As you know we will be in Transition Agreement talks with the company next week. I am quite aware of the length of time this TA is taking and the loss of income all are enduring. Now as before our goal is make a level playing field between both west and east and to achieve additional pay, job security and benefits to the IAM agreement, rather than a sraight transition from west to east. I feel this is the right way to go. Hopefully, with the Mechanic's TA , it will be a springboard for Fleet to get a fair and equitable TA. I pray, that through these upcoming TA negotiations, even though they may not be everything, to everybody, all the time, for every situation, that they will provide the membership a TA that most will find acceptable until we enter Traditional Section 6 negotiations.
----- Original Message ----- In Solidarity,
Bill Chandlee
From: Ted
To: Bill Chandlee
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:57 PM
Subject: What is going on?
I hope you and your family are well. As you know we will be in Transition Agreement talks with the company next week. I am quite aware of the length of time this TA is taking and the loss of income all are enduring. Now as before our goal is make a level playing field between both west and east and to achieve additional pay, job security and benefits to the IAM agreement, rather than a sraight transition from west to east. I feel this is the right way to go. Hopefully, with the Mechanic's TA , it will be a springboard for Fleet to get a fair and equitable TA. I pray, that through these upcoming TA negotiations, even though they may not be everything, to everybody, all the time, for every situation, that they will provide the membership a TA that most will find acceptable until we enter Traditional Section 6 negotiations.
----- Original Message ----- In Solidarity,
Bill Chandlee
From: Ted
To: Bill Chandlee
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:57 PM
Subject: What is going on?
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