IAM topic of the week

[Ramp Rogue]

Maybe I would have but let me just once again say. Tim and the others out there still have not answered my question did you vote for this current contract? If you say yes than you did exactly the same thing you say I was willing to do with those other stations. You voted to approve 2 pay scales you voted to contract out other stations. Dont give me the speech that yes but we had to accept that contract.
No you didnt you could have done what me and many others did. We said no and we voted to strike even though we knew what it would mean.
So dont give me your crap.

I voted no, and will continue to do so until DOH is included in anything that is put up for a vote. I lose money everyday that we go by class seniority, because someone junior to me gets the overtime first. They get the better days off, and the better vacation weeks too!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I replied to roabilly's post, you know where he asked my thoughts.

Last time I checked anyone can post on these boards.

And I am telling you what happened.

There would have been no job losses in PHL and the outstations would have been saved.

I don't think that is correct. Plus giving up catering scope would result in future job loss? And the catering scope wasn't exclusive to PHL. There are still a few second class stations that have scarring over that and have bedded with Canale, but bitterness has lost its taste to many.

Alot of things happened in bankruptcy that all were to blame but we have moved forward and are looking forward, together. Therien lies the company/canale's problem, our solidarity.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Pardon my interruption to the groupthink lovefest, but notice how no one will discuss my aforementioned subject to the ugly reality of demanding so much to the point of being replaced?

Face it.... there are tens of thousands of low-skilled, low-educated people who would do our 4/8 jobs for about $12/hour, plus benefits. If your neighbor's kid demanded twice the going rate to mow your lawn, would you simply say, "I support the working boy, and will pay whatever the kid demands!" Of course, you wouldn't, and neither will Parker.

Reminder... it happened with Midwest Airlines, it happened at Alaska Airlines, Delta already uses in-house vendors for their ramp in most locations, and Northwest had the ability to find licensed and trained aircraft mechanics as permanent replacements for those on strike. Maybe Boss Canale is reading something you all can't bear yourselves to accept and you instead look for some United/Parker/Canale conspiracies to explain an ugly truth. Voting for March Hare and his enabling band of Mad Hatters on the Nihilist Directions Team will not change the facts of our industry, our changing economy, our lowly job requirements, or our company's ability to find replacements.

Will anyone address the possibility of being replaced by a vendor? Tim? O-man? Roadie? PJ? Dio? Redeye? Mike? Perserverance? Roabilly? Anyone? Better start thinking about it, because two years isn't that far off.

You all might loathe me, but consider me to be your long past due cognitive therapy session.

So Counsels Jester.

The fear of contracting out the ramp is a fair question but to answer it we must go to the scope. And in case of mergers, we must look at the future possibilities by reviewing the current models [union and non-union] in the airline industry.

USAIRWAYS can not contract out any station in the TWU agreement. I actually think there is one station that we have members and it doesn't even have any USAIRWAYS flights [is it Long Beach?]. Over on the East side, USAIRWAYS contracted out all stations except the 11 stations that are protected under class 1 status [PVD, BDL is up for reclassifying in April]. Also can't contract out catering in certain of these stations.
OTOH, the second class stations are really the equivalent of contracted out stations with 'cheap labor' rates, the only difference is that the IAM can continue to get dues off of them.
Basically, the only way USAIRWAYS can contract out more work is if the workers would have naively listened to the negotiations committee and passed the last enema. It would have 'doomed' 19 stations with the "Wizard of Canale hour glass". Without the new 'Canale sweetheart agreement' the only other way USAIRWAYS could contract out work is if there was a strike where it self imposed a contract. This isn't the case.

At any rate, your mentioning of Delta is interesting but misleading. Delta ramp currently works more stations than the IAM's class 1 stations. Delta ramp works the following 15 stations: LAX ATL SLC HNL CVG EWR LGA JFK BOS FLL TPA MCO SJU MSY DCA. And Delta currently has at or over 7,000 rampers that the IAM is attempting to organize. Like USAIRWAYS, Delta came out of Bankruptcy too, however, the Delta worker's job is worth more on paper than the current USAIRWAYS class 1 station employee. Just goes to show you how awful Canale has done in bankuptcy. I mean non-union workers came out better than what Canale did.

Throw in Continental ramp and I don't think it makes 'good sense' to suggest its the norm to contract out the ramp at major airlines, regardless if union or non-union. Continental rampers make close to $20hr but really make closer to $22hr when figuring in their incredible industry leading profit sharing plan.

That being said, if USAIRWAYS didn't have a contract to keep the ramp then I think it would be the one airline that is stupid enough to contract out the entire ramp in this service industry. I only remember one airline that did that [People's express] and the service was disasterous. For some reason, strictly my own opinion on the matter [I hope my opinion is wrong], it seems to me that USAIRWAYS thinks its unionized employees are all enemy a$$holes. I don't know why that is but this company is corrupted at the top and needs a visionary that knows how to treat human beings.

regards,
Tim Nelson, email here
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[pjirish317]

USAIRWAYS contracted out all stations except the 11 stations that are protected under class 1 status [PVD, BDL is up for reclassifying in April].
=regards,
Tim Nelson, email here
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Tim,
I agree with you on most of what you have said. That being said, what makes you think that canoli and the company will reclassify any stations in April. Canoli has not enforded our CBA at all in the past 4 or 5 years. In fact was it not canoli who wanted PVD and BDL class I stations? So IMO, fat chance that any stations get re-classified in april. Heck you never know, maybee canoli wises up and actually get us a fair and equitable T/A. I highly doubt it though.
No offense to PVD and BDL, but IMO those stations should not have been class I in the first place.

 

[Henderfuzz]

Well what I trully think needs to happen next week is that the IAM agree to just a small raise for all bringing us up to one pay scale and bring in the west. Go to 2009 and become a trully unified group and get a great contract. I dont think an extension is needed at this point.
You understand one of the biggest problems I see and read here is the hubs want a big raise becasue they have not suffered as much as the class 2 cities and it continues to cause a rift between to 2. I blame mostly the IAM on this and agreeing to this in the first place but it needs to change.
Just MHO

 

[pjirish317]

Well what I trully think needs to happen next week is that the IAM agree to just a small raise for all bringing us up to one pay scale and bring in the west. Go to 2009 and become a trully unified group and get a great contract. I dont think an extension is needed at this point.
You understand one of the biggest problems I see and read here is the hubs want a big raise becasue they have not suffered as much as the class 2 cities and it continues to cause a rift between to 2. I blame mostly the IAM on this and agreeing to this in the first place but it needs to change.
Just MHO

Fuzz,
I agree with you partially. I do not believe that just the Class I stations want a huge raise. I believe that we all want a nice raise. The Class I stations and the Class II stations all want the same thing right now. I think, and this is just my opinion, that all of the Class I stations will have the Class II stations backs in the upcoming trials that we as a whole face ahead. We have to look out for each other now. The I'LL ASK MANAGEMENT should have been doing this all along. That is why we are in this position that we are in right now, along with canoli and crew. If they only had done their job, they might have still had one come June. I also agree with you on the no extesion. But we all no that will not happen. The company and canoli want this thing locked up for at least 4 more years. And everybody suffered under this current CBA we have now. Not just Class II stations.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
I agree with you on most of what you have said. That being said, what makes you think that canoli and the company will reclassify any stations in April. Canoli has not enforded our CBA at all in the past 4 or 5 years. In fact was it not canoli who wanted PVD and BDL class I stations? So IMO, fat chance that any stations get re-classified in april. Heck you never know, maybee canoli wises up and actually get us a fair and equitable T/A. I highly doubt it though.
No offense to PVD and BDL, but IMO those stations should not have been class I in the first place.

there is no such thing as Class ll stations, they are 'second class stations'. Jmac, before he retired, insisted that none of his locals [insert PVD, BDL here] get screwed over as second class. He made this stand and to his credit it was done.

Much of negotiations is about politics. We have a few negotiators on the team this time that aren't impressed with 'kissing the pinky' of Boss Canale. Knowing their character, I don't believe any contract is going to be brought back without at least $20hr and extensive benfit return, otherwise it looks like 2009. It's really up to Hemenway so I wouldn't get all too excited about next week. This may take a while until your company respects the masses.
Further, Canale doesn't have the 'juice' to offer anyone $120,000 jobs anymore so his baloon has deflated.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[pjirish317]

As far as "Second Class Stations" go, IMO canoli and the company think that we all are second class stations.

 

[700UW]

You're off target once again 700. Can you be so naive to believe that if you give up catering scope that there would not have been future job loss? And tell the truth, it wasn't just a PHL thing, last I checked the catering scope wasn't exclusive to PHL. There are still a few second class stations that have scarring over that and have bedded with Canale, but bitterness has lost its taste to many.

Alot of things happened in bankruptcy that all were to blame but we have moved forward and are looking forward, together. Therien lies the company/canale's problem, our solidarity.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

Once again, YOU'RE off base, you were not at CCY nor talking with the Fleet NC, it was just catering in PHL which the company sought.

And this was before the mass hiring in PHL, so Fleet would have been aborbed into the ramp instead of working catering in PHL.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

I am seriously getting tired of repeating myself.

What part of DO NOT MAKE IT PERSONAL don't you get?

700UW and Tim Nelson, STAY ON TOPIC. You may argue the facts and the issues all you want, but stop the fingerpointing and accusations NOW.

The next personally directed comment gets the IAM subject closed until the next weekly cycle and no new IAM discussions will be permitted until then. Also the offending post will get the poster at least a week off the boards.

This is about the issues folks NOT the people...do NOT go there.

We're done with the warnings.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It's more like, a step process. first absorbtion then evaporation and 'boo bye'. Losing work means losing jobs. Bottom line. Just a few months ago Canale claims he protected all 19 stations out west. He protected them by stripping their guaranteed no contracting language out from them, and inserted his own 'Wizard of Canale Hour Glass" with 'drop dead' language.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[PI Blue]

Okay...so the subject matter at hand is giving up scope with the promise that no jobs will be lost. Well the way I look at it, anytime scope is given up then the potential for future job growth has just been eliminated. Maybe it's just me, but the long term math does not add up.


Just my two cents worth

 

[pjirish317]

Well we all know canoli math by now. Those 19 stations in the last T/A that could have been outsourced would have been outsourced. Sure they were protected for 5 years, but at the ammendable date, bye bye. If it says in the CBA that the company can do it, they will. Regardless on what canoli says. Heck he agree's with the company on this. Hence the reason for his current situation that he finds himself in now. All of us at US/HP do not trust him, UA can't trust him. BYE BYE canoli, don't let the screen door hit ya, where the good lord split ya, on your way out that is!

 

[orioleman]

fuzz,
"Maybe I would have but let me just once again say. Tim and the others out there still have not answered my question did you vote for this current contract? If you say yes than you did exactly the same thing you say I was willing to do with those other stations. You voted to approve 2 pay scales you voted to contract out other stations. Dont give me the speech that yes but we had to accept that contract.
No you didnt you could have done what me and many others did. We said no and we voted to strike even though we knew what it would mean.
So dont give me your crap."

I will answer your question again. it's about the third time I have answered . but here goes

NOT ONLY DID I VOTE NO on our BK contract. I have not yet voted YES to any of our contracts.
The first contract needed a whole lot more language than we got.. and all the others were just plain crap..
as a matter of fact people in my station can vouch for me when I was proclaiming to take it to the judge and vote no.

however YES i did vote YES for on the strike vote.

Now satisfied.. and no I'm not giving you my crap....

 

[roabilly]

OUTSOURCIN' FLEET QUESTION:

(Quote Roabilly)

Gottah quick question fer all tha more prolific minds browsin’ this board.

Seems to me, if tha Company really wanted tahh outsource Fleet…they just missed tha golden opportunity!

Couldn’t have tha bankruptcy proceedings been orchestrated in ahh way as to have made this possible?

All tha Unions were on their knees... ‘n helpless! (Least, that’s what they told us.)

If tha answer is yes… or even maybe… than that tells us (membership)
tha Company doesn’t consider this cost effective.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


OK… ya’ll still didn’t get it.

Whut I’m getting at is this… If tha Company wanted tahh contract out all of Fleet
(I mean everybody) , includin’ hubs, wouldn’t they have done so during the window of perfect legal opportunity?

That being the bankruptcies… (When tha judge abrogated tha contracts)
this point is extremely valuable to our barginig perspective.

I’m lookin’ fer a definitive… yes… no… or maybe to, could they have contracted us out?.

The answer to this question could lay the outsourcin’ threat that’s been dangled over our head to rest!

I’m sure tha Company, ‘n probably tha IAM would love fer us to think we
expendable... ‘n could be easily outsourced.

That way, we’d be softened up, and more likely tahh ratify ah future substandard
T/A under duress!

IMO... They would have jumped on outsourcin' at abrogation, if it were really feasible.

So opines, refutes, counsels, 'n… ahh bunch ahh other verbs…. Roabilly