IAM Thread for the week of 2/19-2/26

[crushed]

Go ahead and send your company back into bankruptcy, you already have 3 times

YOU PEOPLE ARE BAGGAGE HANDLERS, WAKE UP!

DON'T PUT YOUR COMPANY HOSTAGE!

AFTER YOU STONEWALL YOUR COMPANY!

*seek the truth*

Wow! Which is it?
Are we just dumb non-skilled rampers?
Or do we have the power to do all the things you say?

If fleet alone can hold up mergers, and shut this company down.....then we DO have leverage at the bargaining table and both the company and our union better start listening to US!

 

[redeye]

Somewhat knew it,
'as I thought, all of you can't face the truth. Don't you know your jobs are on the line? What are you going to tell your families when you have to sign the Wall-Mart application? Go ahead and send your company back into bankruptcy, you already have 3 times and just don't get it do you? YOUR COMPANY IS A LOW COST CARRIER AND PRACTICES COST NEUTRAL NEGOTIATIONS....IT ISN'T RANDY CANALE'S FAULT BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS THIS. RANDY CANALE HAS BEEN AS HONEST AS HE COULD BE BUT ALL YOU PEOPLE DO IS TALK DOWN ABOUT HIM. YOU HAVE YOUR JOB NOW BECAUSE OF RANDY CANALE!!!!!!!! AND THE COMPANY DIDN'T WANT TO CONTINUE SECTION 6 SO WHO'S HE GOING TO NEGOTIATE AGAINST? HIMSELF? DON'T BLAME RANDY FOR NOT DOING SECTION 6 AT AMERICA WEST, BLAME THE EAST SIDERS WHO DECIDED TO LISTEN TO INTERNET LIES AND BECAME TOO GREEDY FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. YOU PEOPLE ARE BAGGAGE HANDLERS, WAKE UP!
ONCE THINGS CONSOLIDATE THERE SHOULD BE PLENTY FOR EVERYONE BUT DON'T PUT YOUR COMPANY HOSTAGE! WAKE UP PEOPLE AND BE SENSIBLE. YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS BUT YOU MUST LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.SEE YOU ALL AT HARDEES FLIPPING BURGERS AFTER YOU STONEWALL YOUR COMPANY!
*seek the truth*

We understand that what you want to do is instill fear. That is a tactic
that Randy has used to further his agenda for years. The problem for
him now is that we understand this and are adapting. Fear is a great
tool in negotiations. But why is he using this tactic on us not the
company?
Consider this passage:

Power Balancing in Negotiations

Power in negotiations must be recognized and, if you are on the short
end of the equation, balanced.

Other people presume to have power over us. Be they attorneys,
accountants, doctors, clerks, teachers, or spouses who can make
our lives miserable the power they presume to hold over us is
based solely on the power we allow them to have.

Most power held by negotiators is illusory but powerful until it is
challenged. Fear of everyday conflict, confrontation avoidance,
can be overcome by understanding the process of any negotiation
and learning how to garner enough power to impact the outcome
of the situation in a positive fashion.

Surviving is getting along and accepting the status quo. Conquering
is overcoming and prevailing. When we negotiate, the goal is to reach
an agreement that meets our needs and advances our cause by
satisfying some of our wants. As conflict is a constant part of our
lives, it should be conquered rather than merely survived.

Conquering conflict does not necessarily mean crushing the other
person. It means dispatching the negative connotation of conflict
in your mind, the fear if you will, so that you can focus on resolving
issues to advance your interests rather than merely preserving them.

The reality is that fear makes us act defensively, being defensive
shuts down our ability to communicate. Lack of communication
stymies negotiations.


speaknotruth......because we understand what you are doing, you no
longer have the power, or as Mr. Nelson would say "juice." We are
acting offensively and now you are reacting.
If the company wants to play "merger mania" they will understand this
and find this happy medium. We are only asking what is fair. To buy
into the illusionary "cost neutral" position of the company resigns us to
be in the position of "surviving" from here on out.

All we are asking is to reach an agreement that meets our needs and
advances our cause by satisfying some of our wants. No more no less.

To us you are the weakest link.......goodbye!

 

[WTF_CLT]

IT ISN'T RANDY CANALE'S FAULT BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS THIS. RANDY CANALE HAS BEEN AS HONEST AS HE COULD BE BUT ALL YOU PEOPLE DO IS TALK DOWN ABOUT HIM. YOU HAVE YOUR JOB NOW BECAUSE OF RANDY CANALE!!!!!!!! AND THE COMPANY DIDN'T WANT TO CONTINUE SECTION 6 SO WHO'S HE GOING TO NEGOTIATE AGAINST? HIMSELF? DON'T BLAME RANDY FOR NOT DOING SECTION 6 AT AMERICA WEST..........
ONCE THINGS CONSOLIDATE THERE SHOULD BE PLENTY FOR EVERYONE BUT DON'T PUT YOUR COMPANY HOSTAGE! WAKE UP PEOPLE AND BE SENSIBLE. YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS BUT YOU MUST LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.SEE YOU ALL AT HARDEES FLIPPING BURGERS AFTER YOU STONEWALL YOUR COMPANY![/i]
*seek the truth*

I am astounded at your complete inability to comprehend fleet services current situation.
Please tell me (If you're able):

-What % of LCCs' annual overhead is used to cover fleet service expenses?

-How many full time FSAs are there now (compared with pre-bankruptcy levels)?

-Why are "baggage handlers" not worth a decent living wage and benefits? It seems to me that we are actually responsible for a significant, critical portion of the airlines operation. Our performance also has a large impact on the public perception of the airline in general.

-What happened to canales (intentional lower case usage) campaigns of "concession stand is closed", "will strike if provoked", and last but, certainly not least, "jobs worth having". It seems to me that your boy is great at printing T-shirts with catchy slogans but has little motivation when actually put to the test! ( By the way, bankruptcy arguments hold no water. Uniteds agents made out just fine post bankruptcy.)

-Are you aware(I know canale is) that the iam collects the same dues whether we make 9.00/hr or 21.00/hr. Why bother with the hassle of negotiating a decent contract?

-Judging by your usage of run-on sentences and apparent inability to form a paragraph, I suspect that you yourself would face quite a challenge while attempting to assemble a Big Mac or salt a basket of fries.

O.K. one last rant before I go back in my cave. I accept a large portion of responsibility for my/our current workplace situation. I know that myself (and many others) were complacent in letting our union representation slide to its current sorry state via indifference or general ennui. We let the same sorry,self-serving. lying,arrogant type of bastards get control of our union that seem to be running this company. Hopefully, this is now moving in a positive direction. To those of you who say we are not worth more, I would say it is you who are worthless. Those who will not put forth any risk or effort to better their lives deserve to have nothing. If our management tells us they can't afford to pay decent wages, let them lead by example. This includes union officers. I refuse to be ruled by the fear tactics of this company and the union. It is time for the friendly dogs to bite....hard.

 

[Henderfuzz]

I cant wait for the spin from all you spin doctors when next week the company just waks away, with no agreement and says see you in a year and half. Than what will you say that they still need an agreement to go for another merger? You guys just crack me up when you think that we , Fleet can hold up any deal that the company may or may not be working on. Dont you get it they dont care. They continue to make money without any agreements, yes it would look better to Wall Street if they had agreements in place but bottom line they will still make money with or without us.
We should have just taken the money last year and run. Now we just contuine to look foolish.

 

[WTF_CLT]

I cant wait for the spin from all you spin doctors when next week the company just waks away, with no agreement and says see you in a year and half. Than what will you say that they still need an agreement to go for another merger? You guys just crack me up when you think that we , Fleet can hold up any deal that the company may or may not be working on. Dont you get it they dont care. They continue to make money without any agreements, yes it would look better to Wall Street if they had agreements in place but bottom line they will still make money with or without us.
We should have just taken the money last year and run. Now we just contuine to look foolish.

What money? That proposal was nothing more than a re-shuffling of our current compensation. The total overall increase in benefit was 0. It actually proposed a decrease in compensation since it ran through 2012.

 

[Henderfuzz]

What money? That proposal was nothing more than a re-shuffling of our current compensation. The total overall increase in benefit was 0. It actually proposed a decrease in compensation since it ran through 2012.

Oh ok I guess the fact I right now would be making about 5 more dollars per hour is nothing.
Wow I wish I had your budget. I guess your just independantly wealthy.
Oh and once again not to mention the fact the end of the agreement forced the company to negociate a new better deal. Your right it was a piece of crap.

 

[isthisok]

Wow! Which is it?
Are we just dumb non-skilled rampers?
Or do we have the power to do all the things you say?

If fleet alone can hold up mergers, and shut this company down.....then we DO have leverage at the bargaining table and both the company and our union better start listening to US!

I agree!!!!!!! This crap that we are going to put the company in bankruptcy is a bunch of bull. The only ones that are going to put this company in bankruptcy are the crooks that are running it. I want to know if any other major group on the property have TAs and why do the Rampers have to sign a TA before anyone else? Maybe because the others groups have better deals sitting on the table. Maybe the company doesn't want to bring them to vote until they shove a piece of crap up our behinds. We are only asking for a fair shake compared to the industry standards, not trying to set the industry standard. I'm tired of substandard wages and benefits while the top dogs (and I do mean DOGS) get above industry compensation. I'm at the end of my career at this piece of crap company and if they don't want to treat us with respect than just shut it down and I'll collect unemployment and retire when that runs out. Screw Doug, Al and all the other retards that got their tongues up their rears.

 

[redeye]

What money? That proposal was nothing more than a re-shuffling of our current compensation. The total overall increase in benefit was 0. It actually proposed a decrease in compensation since it ran through 2012.

WTF,

You hit the nail on the head. What Randy is doing is Bartering, not
Negotiating. The company is placing inflated value to some issues
they have and deflated value to issues we bring.

Where the company is most effective is how they divide the membership
to advance their agenda. In Henderfuzz's issue, the company knows that
if they give him a little change he will look the other way while hundreds
of others lose their jobs. He feels no guilt because he does not know them personally.
Why does Randy passively allow for this to happen?
He wants us, who see the big picture, to look like the bad guys, not he and
the company.
Smart if you think about it.

 

[b737200]

WOW, I have never seen the cheap suites crew sound so desperate. They keep telling us
we have no bargaining power but now I'm hearing we can shut the co. down, cause another bk,
prevent mergers. I feel the love baby, I feel the love.
Or could this be Al's people pleading for his job? If we don't sign does he goe away.

BOTTOM LINE........................... If it doesn't bebefit The fleet service group, TERMINATE THE
NEGOTIATIONS, let the mech's go then f/a then pilots.

Its pretty simple AL AND RANDY, cost neutral won't get it.
We've become just like a virus, adapting to the past ways has made us stronger and smarter.
When you have int'l reps and district reps pleading for you to take the next t/a, that tells me
they are starting to fear a solidified, educated group of dues paying members.

 

[freedom]

.

Where the company is most effective is how they divide the membership
to advance their agenda. In Henderfuzz's issue, the company knows that
if they give him a little change he will look the other way while hundreds
of others lose their jobs. He feels no guilt because he does not know them personally.

i just want to point out that to people like fuzz and myself , that "little" change you talk about is actually a life changing amount .Can you blame men who are drowning in absolute poverty for not displaying more unfaltering commitment to union ideals?

 

[redeye]

i just want to point out that to people like fuzz and myself , that "little" change you talk about is actually a life changing amount .Can you blame men who are drowning in absolute poverty for not displaying more unfaltering commitment to union ideals?

Like I said,

Why does Randy passively allow for this to happen?
He wants us, who see the big picture, to look like the bad guys, not he and
the company.
Smart if you think about it.


Randy is deflecting and we see that. So we blame him for placing us
in this situation.

 

[pit_till_death]

Oh ok I guess the fact I right now would be making about 5 more dollars per hour is nothing.
Wow I wish I had your budget. I guess your just independantly wealthy.
Oh and once again not to mention the fact the end of the agreement forced the company to negociate a new better deal. Your right it was a piece of crap.

Fuzz and Freedom,

I agree that the $5/hr raise "looks like a life changing amount, but please look at the whole picture. You would have been paying almost double for your families' health insurance, lost vacation weeks, lost 1st day sick pay, lost holidays, lost profit sharing, lost stations, and the list goes on. That $5/hr wouldn't have gone as far as you thought it would've. You may even had to dig into your pockets at the end of the month to catch up.

Look, I feel for you guys. I've been bounced all over this system to keep my position with this company, and the only one's who've suffered is my family. Try taking a $4.50/hr pay cut, lose half my vacation, half of the holidays, double time, shift differential, longevity pay, pay double for insurance, and that list also goes on and on, while at the same time, having to commute to work and be away from my family. No disrespect to you guys out west, but you haven't realized any loss yet, you only see what you could have had.

We can do better. If the company didn't need a t/a, they wouldn't have wanted to come back to the table so fast and often. They are in a cash positive situation, and all the execs seem to be reaping the rewards of a profitable airline, why shouldn't we. Especially since it was off of our backs. Listen, I'm not asking for the world, Just industry standard, which is fair right now. We can get the rest back later.

Please be patient. We can do better, and everybody is struggling, just in different ways.

 

[dexter]

Hey Freedom, don't get all goofy on us again. Solidarity pays off in the end. You were starting to get the picture slowly and now you have gone all "silly" on us.

 

[freedom]

Hey Freedom, don't get all goofy on us again. Solidarity pays off in the end. You were starting to get the picture slowly and now you have gone all "silly" on us.

No dexter , I’m simply reminding some of you that not all of us are in the same boat … this is a very diverse issue , not even here in the west is this clear cut … I, like henderfuzz happen to fall into the middle kill ground where continuing under the AWA contract you just get $%#@# monetarily .

I know some of you are going to chime in and say you understand , etc etc , but when I can go to taco bell and make more starting than what I’m getting now ,after years of service for this company ….. You just don’t know the feelings I have inside ..

You have been through TWO bankruptcies and you STILL make more money than we do … it’s hard for me sometimes when I have to look up at the American emblem on the side of our planes, I shouldn’t have to associate the flag with a company that drags out the suffering of it’s poorest workers for as long as it can to turn more of a profit , it makes sick to my stomach .

 

[pjirish317]

Look, I feel for you guys. I've been bounced all over this system to keep my position with this company, and the only one's who've suffered is my family. Try taking a $4.50/hr pay cut, lose half my vacation, half of the holidays, double time, shift differential, longevity pay, pay double for insurance, and that list also goes on and on, while at the same time, having to commute to work and be away from my family. No disrespect to you guys out west, but you haven't realized any loss yet, you only see what you could have had.

Please be patient. We can do better, and everybody is struggling, just in different ways.

Freedom,
Read the above post carefully. I am going to assume that pit_till_death works in a class I city. I however work in a class II city. So take the hourly wage down another $2.00 per hour. With all that we gave up in BK2 I lost about 48% of my salary when you add all the stuff up. I chose to stay, just like you did. So to say that a $3 and change raise would help me out, please. My health benefits go up every year. That raise wont cover that. Are you going to start with "sacrifice the few to save the many" speeches again? Fleet Service will not, and I repeat will not send this company into BK3 looking for a "FAIR & EQUITABLE" contract. That is just BS from the company and the union trying to get us to accept a sub industry standard and concessionary agreement. If the union did not agree with the company and shelve section 6 for you guys out west, we may be in a better position right now. But because the union did not push the section 6 issue, here we are. Be patient, if the company wants this transition, we will get something acceptable. If not, sorry to break it to you so harsh, but the east wil not vote for another POS T/A like the last one. I looked beyond the $$$$$$ and saw what that T/A was. CRAP. If another one comes around, I will, and I hope the rest of the east does also, vote it down with a resounding NO! We will see come the beginning of march.