IAM Thread for the week of 2/19-2/26

[NevadaHP]

jester, your thoughts are good but we now work in a world after 9/11, there is no way a company could get background checks done overnight to replace any HUB workforce. we are also negotiating along side with mechanics, i would bet that if stalled out long enough both work groups would get together and collectively jam this company. And if my memory serves me right alaska didnt strike they were replaced by CSR agents until new work forces could be hired, I believe it was due to an outsourcing clause in their contract and the IAM lost it in arbitration. i see a bad precedent with arbitrations lately.

 

[john john]

Time for a Reality Check... Wake Up!

You don't think Parker can replace ramp agents with a vendor?
Also here is something else to consider... the Change in Control language has many loopholes to it, and if I was Parker, I would structure any future deals such that to avoid the conditions for which the snap backs would take effect. Maybe I would find multiple "independent" buyers (again) or maybe I would have it as a "merger" and not a buy out. I am sure there are far greater legal minds than mine to figure ways around the poorly constructed CIC within the CBA. My point being if you are looking for leverage with the CIC, you might be trying to force a string instead of a lever.


So Offers Jester.

Yes, if the IAM leadership lets them. The present IAM leadership makes the fleet service agents nervous because of past practice. Management would love to have the CIC language out of the contract. It can and will be challenge on both sides. If grieved WHO WILL WIN????? YOU DON’T KNOW. That is the beauty of the union and negotiations.All your points are the reason why you need a union with strong leadership

 

[roabilly]

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(Quote, Jester)

You don't think Parker can replace ramp agents with a vendor? Even at $12/hour plus benefits, there would be applicants out the door and it would be a higher pay than most West rampers are making presently and FAR cheaper than what most of you THINK you are worth! Hell, it might be West rampers who eagerly take those "new jobs" if offered at that pay!

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Jester… surly you jest!


We… (Tha IAM ramp membership) been wachin’ tha Company tryin’ tahh fill over ahh hundred F/S vacancies here in CLT fer over ahh year, at tha wages ‘n benefits you suggest vendors will work for.

It’s been a revolvin’ door !... ain’t but a few still around…scores have come ‘n gone ! Our basic “ramper†logic tells us yer theory is questionable, if not altogether unfounded.

We, intha trenches... see ‘n know what’s up…

I’ll bet yer in ahh nice climate controlled office, with ahh nice income… lookin’ out tha window at us “rampersâ€â€¦ loadin' thousands of pounds of baggage… mail ‘n freight in tha elements.

All tha while, tryin’ tahh think of ways to convince us we expendable… ‘n ain’t worth squat!

Ain't Gonna work Mr. Jester... We way too smart 'n solid !

 

[Jester]

jester, your thoughts are good but we now work in a world after 9/11, there is no way a company could get background checks done overnight to replace any HUB workforce. we are also negotiating along side with mechanics, i would bet that if stalled out long enough both work groups would get together and collectively jam this company. And if my memory serves me right alaska didnt strike they were replaced by CSR agents until new work forces could be hired, I believe it was due to an outsourcing clause in their contract and the IAM lost it in arbitration. i see a bad precedent with arbitrations lately.

Actually, the FS workers were locked out, and replaced by the British vendor, Menzies (no, I am not making up that name) after the TA was overwhelmingly rejected by the ramp agents which called for sizable pay cuts. While this was 2005, notice that Menzies was advertising ramp agents for $8.75/hour, no benefits, but you can read the story for yourself:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/busi...1_alaska26.html

Midwest Airlines dumped its ramp agents and contracted out its fleet service to one of its own companies, Skyway Airlines in 2005 with a starting pay of $7.25/hour. Again, you can read the story for yourself:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?i...mp;format=print

Notice that in both cases, they were years past 9/11, so do I think it is possible if a company was pro-active and plan adequately to replace a few thousand people with the help of venders and willing to pay substantial overtime to fill in the gaps. If I recall correctly, both fleet service groups were represented by an union which did not save their jobs.

Management could even created its own vendor (as does Delta with DGS) with the creative name, FUBAR (Former Usairways Baghandlers And Rampers) and offer the very "generous" starting pay of $12/hour and you wouldn't need to hire from the outside, at least, in PHX and LAS, then work on the East side next.

It is not a good time to be an unskilled and uneducated worker in America as companies have become more hostile, more creative, and a government less supportive of organized labor. Then again, maybe Boss Canale knows this too, but we do not want to hear this bitter truth.

So Proclaims Jester.

 

[freedom]

What is the CIC ? What ever you want it to be ! it could be a back pay check of 20 thousand for every worker , or it could be leverage to force this company to do what ever we like ,it could even be a defense against hostile acquisition ! The CIC is only as effective as your wildest imaginations , so think big !!

I was actually discussing with another worker yesterday how the CIC is going to get us out of Iraq this year AND will eventually lead to full funding for socialized healthcare within the united states . Ah this company doesn’t know what it’s playing with yet! Just wait till we take you to court in another legal battle stretching between 1 and three years , will show you us airways! Come on change of control! Daddy needs a new pair of shoes ,……….and a house , a car , food , clothing anything because we’re so damn poor …

 

[pjirish317]

Daddy needs a new pair of shoes ,……….and a house , a car , food , clothing anything because we’re so damn poor …

Freedom,
If you do not like it QUIT. You have a choice. Either stay and stick it out or QUIT to find greener pastures. But please stop with the Im sooooooooooooooo pooor. Please Vote in a raise and screw everything else for 5 years. If you don't like you current situation then QUIT! There are alot of us in the same boat. We chose to stay. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

 

[pit_till_death]

It is not a good time to be an unskilled and uneducated worker in America as companies have become more hostile, more creative, and a government less supportive of organized labor. Then again, maybe Boss Canale knows this too, but we do not want to hear this bitter truth.

So Proclaims Jester.

What makes you think that f/s agents are "unskilled and uneducated" as you implied????? That may be the most egotistical statement of the day. By the way----aren't you f/s, or are you the exception to the rule??

So inquires pit.

 

[Jester]

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(Quote, Jester)

You don't think Parker can replace ramp agents with a vendor? Even at $12/hour plus benefits, there would be applicants out the door and it would be a higher pay than most West rampers are making presently and FAR cheaper than what most of you THINK you are worth! Hell, it might be West rampers who eagerly take those "new jobs" if offered at that pay!

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Jester… surly you jest!


We… (Tha IAM ramp membership) been wachin’ tha Company tryin’ tahh fill over ahh hundred F/S vacancies here in CLT fer over ahh year, at tha wages ‘n benefits you suggest vendors will work for.

It’s been a revolvin’ door !... ain’t but a few still around…scores have come ‘n gone ! Our basic “ramper†logic tells us yer theory is questionable, if not altogether unfounded.

We, intha trenches... see ‘n know what’s up…

I’ll bet yer in ahh nice climate controlled office, with ahh nice income… lookin’ out tha window at us “rampersâ€â€¦ loadin' thousands of pounds of baggage… mail ‘n freight in tha elements.

All tha while, tryin’ tahh think of ways to convince us we expendable… ‘n ain’t worth squat!

Ain't Gonna work Mr. Jester... We way too smart 'n solid !

Starting them at $9/hour? Make it $12/hour (making it affordable by replacing those presently topped out) and you will have thousands of applications.

By the way, I am not in some "nice climate controlled office" and I would personally love to visit the CLT ramp and even work with you in a 757 aft bin and show you the right way how to stack and load a plane. You know... a load when the connects are separated from the locals and where the handles are facing out in a neat stack? Personally, I don' think you would be able to keep up with me if you had to do that too.

So Suggest Jester.

 

[freedom]

Freedom,
If you do not like it QUIT. You have a choice. Either stay and stick it out or QUIT to find greener pastures. But please stop with the Im sooooooooooooooo pooor. Please Vote in a raise and screw everything else for 5 years. If you don't like you current situation then QUIT! There are alot of us in the same boat. We chose to stay. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

PJ I was being sarcastic when talking about the CIC written above , not actually crying about my own poverty

Anyone who thinks that the CIC is going to “save†you or provide “leverage “ needs to go back about 9 pages and reread what was talked about before the decision came down … don’t fool yourselves again …


The only leverage we have is our strength through numbers , if you take even 5 committed men in every station and connect them via a network , they can do incredible things when working in concert ….it’s the reach of our network and the strength of our network that makes us stronger and more dangerous by the day , not new union officials or increased online rhetoric , but the growing ability to take real physical action and see those results …

 

[orioleman]

jester,
"By the way, I am not in some "nice climate controlled office" and I would personally love to visit the CLT ramp and even work with you in a 757 aft bin and show you the right way how to stack and load a plane. You know... a load when the connects are separated from the locals and where the handles are facing out in a neat stack? Personally, I don' think you would be able to keep up with me if you had to do that too."


You've GOT TO BE F*cking kiddng me. WE WOULD LOVE FOR YOU to come to CLT and unload a PHX inbd. maybe then you

would see how incompetent some are in how to load an airplane........Oh and by the way.. IN CLT you won't be alone in the bin

we like to work safe and smart........

 

[roabilly]

Come on down...Mr. Jester.... Me 'n tha boy's will be here with open arms !

 

[Edward]

Folks get back to topic please,

 

[perserverance]

First, a thanks to ''road trip'' for the ad about ''raid'' we need to put names on the
characters...that would be nice.

Now, I just recieved my ''Messenger'' and I'd like to quote some of our pres.'s (canale)
report.

''The negotiating committee is aware that the previous tenative agreement was not acceptable
to the membership. It is our goal to improve upon that agreement so we can move forward as
a unified work force with fair and equitable wages, improved benifits, secure pensions and job
security for everyone with no more sacrifice involved.''

This being said....what ? The agreement was not acceptable by the membership. This agreement
should have never been presented and that is why your job is now being threatened. This TA should
have not included one, one concession. We were and are in a bankrupt agreed practically forced
agreement. The TA should have shown upgrades in all facits of what we currently have. The fact that
our NC didn't see this is a shame, thier $100,000 ++ salaries complicate thier outlooks on the
struggling employee they were elected or appointed to represent ( not happy with appointments).
I did not put ''no more sacrifice involved '' in bold the article has it that way. That should have
been the mantra from the get.

''To achieve our stated goal, the membership's solidarity is the most important element to our success
in providing contract improvements to all IAM members in these negotiations.
If we can stand together, we can accomplish our goals. If the membership is divided, US Airways wins.

Now, I agree a members solidarity is crucial in standing as a whole and not as a individual but the whole is made from the individuals in agreement for thier common goal.
The thought that the membership is divided is a lie.
We are still dues paying members and we only question the leadership not the IAM as
a whole. This reeks of a ''you need me'' statement. We are certainly not divided in our intent, we sit thinking who it is that would represent us best and so far not you. This is similar to when in certain
situations when you need a spokesman you ask,'' who should talk for us '' and based upon that we
ask that person to address our concerns on our behalf now when that person becomes to friendly
with them were trying to come to an agreement with, they tend to lose thier way. They become easily
taken off course by money, power and greed and when that occurs we (the dues paying members) regroup and seek a different voice, same concerns but a different voice who hasn't been tarnished and in that we need to remain UNION, which we are and seek the better voice. The membership is not, I repeat not divided in fact it has become more a whole. We all seek the same justice, not divided as Canale has suggested.

Long post but Thanks

 

[Jester]

What makes you think that f/s agents are "unskilled and uneducated" as you implied????? That may be the most egotistical statement of the day. By the way----aren't you f/s, or are you the exception to the rule??

So inquires pit.

Quick! Someone give PIT some smelling salts! He has fallen from the realm of reality!

Okay, what's the educational requirement of this job? A high school diploma?

What's the "skills" are involved in performing a fleet service job? Possess a valid drivers license? Clear a background check? Pass piss test? Have ability to read a bag tag from the bottom up? Be able to lift 75 pounds?

Sorry, those aren't exactly what I would call either educated or skilled requirements by any reasonable standard within a developed first world economy. Making top dollar in a competitive global market with little education or job skills isn't going to cut it as easily as it once did.

So Refutes Jester.

 

[700UW]

OK, first off, if the Company isn't interested in negotiating, great. THat's THEIR problem, not ours. They don't want to do it, fine, we'll go to mediation. Still not negotiating? Fine, we'll go on strike. Pres Bush calls his board together and stops the strike? Fine, within 90 days of an impas being declared we can strike no matter what. THAT is how you get the Company to do what you want. Canale won't fight for us for whatever reason. The East employees don't have anything to do with that. Maybe from some perspectives (admitedly mine as well) the may appear to be "greedy" as you put it. But they're trying to take back what was taken from them. You cna't knock them for that.

Wrong, he can have Congress legislate your CBA and prevent you from striking.