AWA ALPA Thread 9/28 to 10/05

[sharktooth]

USA320 is not a captain, which is probably a reason why he is so upset about not receiving his bididng windfall promised by his reps.

"bididng"

You spell as well as you think.

 

[awapilotsforusapa]

He's lying to you Tiger. Ask him who he called for help and support. He called us not the other way around.

 

[traderjake]

And for those of you who don't think we will you are mistaken.

pilot

You will probably get your election but it will fail by a slim margin.

You won't get many West pilots to vote for a union whose purpose for existing is DOH seniority integration.

There will be enough East pilots who don't want a union run by the PHL and PIT guys to defeat it.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

There will be enough East pilots who don't want a union run by the PHL and PIT guys to defeat it.

Well as of today, there is no more PIT in the not too distant future. So I guess all those radicals will assimilate themselves into the other bases. Wonder what will happen then? Oh My!! or Resistance is Futile?

But since you have either missed or disregarded my previous posts on current ALPA elected leaders and USAPA proposed Constitution and ByLaws concerning them holding office. The proposal is to not let a current ALPA officer to hold office for a period of one year (proposed, have heard 6 months now, which would be after the first election). The reasons are many, the chief one being a conflict of interest. However, the new C&BL must also be ratified for anything to take affect. So, like I said, it's all a proposal.

Also, with block representation and no more roll call voting, even if they did manage to get elected to office, any obstructionist move by a radical faction could be easily defeated by the membership. Voting for a change is a wonderful thing. Something sorely lacking under ALPA.

 

[700UW]

To have a bylaw the restricts former reps from holding office would be a great lawsuit and they would prevail and be allowed to hold and run for office.

 

[sharktooth]

You will probably get your election but it will fail by a slim margin.

You won't get many West pilots to vote for a union whose purpose for existing is DOH seniority integration.

There will be enough East pilots who don't want a union run by the PHL and PIT guys to defeat it.

Why would you think an election would fail by a slim margin and not a large one?

USAPA exists for many reasons.

DOH/LOS with conditions and restrictions is only one. "DOH" happened to be a catalyst but there are many others near and dear to the east pilots hearts.

Why don't you read "U-Turn" to see how the west pilots are getting screwed, with ALPA connivance, especially over the 8+30 issue.

Unfortunately retired now, but one of the most competent pilot managers I've had the pleasure of working with has a very interesting story about an ATA meeting he attended in SEA in the mid 80's. Those who think their management groups are "working real hard" and we should not question their pronouncements or "numbers" really need to hear the story.

Cliff notes version: All of them are not really "working hard" and they lie, a lot.

The fact is, ALPA has lost its way, its relationship with managements has become symbiotic and as a union, it needs competition, badly.

Your last point is interesting because it reveals the depravity of intellect I see in ALPA. It is the judgement of a working draft document simply based on the author, which allows one to not even read what is (so far) written. It means you do not have to make a judgement about a concept, which is the preferred avenue for lessor animals and is, admittedly, many times, hard work.

Just this once, try asking those so afflicted to add their voices to the mix. The more, the merrier. Ask them to focus on the concepts rather than the personalities. Ask them to add rules to regulate less than acceptable decorum, if they think they need that security blanket.

I think it would be difficult to find anyone completely satisfied with ALPA, as it is now. Ask them to make a better product. If they participate, then and only then can they later complain.

 

[Junebug172]

DOH/LOS with conditions and restrictions is only one. "DOH" happened to be a catalyst but there are many others near and dear to the east pilots hearts.

All the perfect reason for a DFR lawsuit. Thanks for posting that!!

Why don't you read "U-Turn" to see how the west pilots are getting screwed, with ALPA connivance, especially over the 8+30 issue.

Ah, the U-Turn. Run by our resident CM's. Now that the Editor in Chief has allegedly retired, we have the Tweedle-Dum running it and posting stuff that was passed across the table over a year ago.

Imagine a mildly retarded CM and you'll have an a good idea as to who is sending out the U-Turd.

And, as for 8:30, its off the table because the company wouldn't agree to BTD.

Move on.

 

[EastUS]

.......we have the Tweedle-Dum running it ......

Imagine a mildly retarded CM and you'll have an a good idea as to who is sending out the U-Turd.

And, as for 8:30, its off the table because the company wouldn't agree to BTD.

Move on.

I gather from your earlier postings that you were/are an Alpo sort around campus out west. "And, as for 8:30, its off the table because the company wouldn't agree to BTD." And..the Alpo response to correct the situation for your pilot group was??....Oh, excuse me, as you've covered that as well = "Move on."

You personally do certainly make an excellent case for your comrades to want to keep Alpo as their representatives.

 

[flybynite]

Are you saying the company wants to reduce our minimum rest to 8:30? Are they crazy?
If that's the case, every f/a will go on the war path! :angry:

 

[luvn737s]

Are you saying the company wants to reduce our minimum rest to 8:30? Are they crazy?
If that's the case, every f/a will go on the war path! :angry:

8:30??? Try maybe 6 hours as a stand-up overnight.

 

[sharktooth]

8:30??? Try maybe 6 hours as a stand-up overnight.

Perhaps your definition of a "standup" is different that the rest of the world.

They did not reference "standup" at all, but your eyes may see different things. How is that LSD doing for you?

 

[traderjake]

.... Just like the rest of the self-centered pilots in this industry........

The only thing that disappoints me is the true lack of understanding and self degradation of this profession by guys like you.

...... they aren't willing to risk a damn thing to correct the wrongs that have been done to this profession.


pilot

What a hypocrite. Tell us what you did to stop the B scale negotiated for me while you got a cost of living pay raise.

 

[EastUS]

What a hypocrite. Tell us what you did to stop the B scale negotiated for me while you got a cost of living pay raise.

Can't help you there sir. I was of the PSA persuasion when that atrocity was being foisted on you..and I've never been of the Alpo Rep persuasion myself in any case. I'll go with ANY B Scale as being yet one more reason to dump Alpo. Consider the working scenario we currently have. The west enjoys higher pay, and adamantly seeks to refuse such to the east "Brethren"..outside of wholesale seniority slaughter. Said notion's evidently fully supported by Prater and the other bloated punks at "Alpo Notional". Does this constitute Fraternity?/Brotherhood?..of ANY sort?..or at ANY level?

You and I have initally "met" on this board with substantive differences in opinion. I immediately offered up some heated, knee-jerk insults that serve our conversation none too well. Given that; I'd ask you to seriously consider what our best course, as a pilot group, really is at this point. I've never been, nor ever will be any union potentate....not tough to figure out based upon my outlook, and lack of any political desires or certainly, any political skills. My belief is that that Alpa's a seriously sick puppy that needs putting down if we're to have even the tiniest chance for a decent professional future. I see no guarantee for anything in the future, in any aspect fo life ever, but:...I do believe that a major change is needed for us to even stop the continual losing of ground in every way. What would it feel like to actually VOTE on ALL substantial issues for starters? That'd be worth a LOT to me right there. Not having what amounts to a small clique of people making major decisions for the/our future without directly involving the line pilots, and instead having membership, and not "representatives" vote would be worth most any risk to me just by itself.

The handwriting on the wall that I otherwise imagine for our group's one of continual decline. Trying "Plan B" couldn't hurt ANYTHING at this point 😉 Any/all arguments by the hopelessly simple minded that Alpo will somehow magically "protect" ANYONE during any future merger should be seen as the utter nonsense that sorry fantasy truly is...Look at what they've done for us so far 😉

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Not having what amounts to a small clique of people making major decisions for the/our future without directly involving the line pilots...

Having a different clique.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Can't help you there sir. I was of the PSA persuasion when that atrocity was being foisted on you..and I've never been of the Alpo Rep persuasion myself in any case. I'll go with ANY B Scale as being yet one more reason to dump Alpo. Consider the working scenario we currently have. The west enjoys higher pay, and adamantly seeks to refuse such to the east "Brethren"..outside of wholesale seniority slaughter. Said notion's evidently fully supported by Prater and the punks at "Alpo Notional". Does this constitue Fraternity?/Brotherhood?..of ANY sort?..or at ANY level?

You and I have initally "met" on this board with substantive differences in opinion. I immediately offered up some heated, knee-jerk insults that serve our conversation none too well. Given that; I'd ask you to seriously consider what our best course, as a pilot group, really is at this point. I've never been, nor ever will be any union potentate....not tough to figure out based upon my outlook, and lack of any political desires or certainly, any political skills. My belief is that that Alpa's a seriously sick puppy that needs putting down if we're to have even the tiniest chance for a decent professional future. I see no guarantee for anything in the future, in any aspect fo life ever, but:...I do believe that a major change is needed for us to even stop the continual losing of ground in every way. What would it feel like to actually VOTE on ALL substantial issues for starters? That'd be worth a LOT to me right there. Not having what amounts to a small clique of people making major decisions for the/our future without directly involving the line pilots, and instead having membership, and not "representatives" vote would be worth most any risk to me just by itself.

Disrespect first. Then try to lure him into your "inner circle" to facilitate your personal agenda. Respect should come first... But I forgot you already knew that. And you wanted to skip a step to speed things up right?