IAM Thread for the week of 2/19-2/26

[700UW]

Do you people ever blame the company, cause in reality they are the ones who dont want to give you a cost increase CBA?

 

[Hadenough]

700UW
First of all YOU don't work for US anymore. YOU have nothing at stake and this is not YOUR fight. Everyone needs to realize YOU have nothing to lose or gain and it is really none of YOUR business.

"Bottom line is the CBAs were abgorated, and the memberships ratified the final offers, everyone has to live with it."

I have no idea what abgorated means because its not even in the dictionary. Yes we ratified the CBA because we did what we thought was necessary to help save this company. We were in bankruptcy at the time. We have lived with it for years but now the company is very healthy financially and we want some of what we gave up back. We have earned that much at least.

"The M&R furlough language for pay is five years."

Not exactly sure what this means but if you are comparing this to our 60 day rule there is a HUGE difference between 2 month and 5 years. We are the only group that have the 60 day rule and it is unacceptable.

"And all of you blame the IAM for a lackluster TA, ever realize this company doesnt want to give you squat?"

We don't blame the IAM because the IAM is an organization. We blame the "leadership" of the IAM. How do YOU know what the company is willing to give. Jean Dixon you are not.

"And this is from someone who has sat across the table from Glass, McKeen, Hemenway and Harbinson."

This statement has no relevance and is nothing more that an attempt to toot your own horn.

"The company sees your group as divided and they prey upon your weakness."

YOU have no idea if we are divided or not because YOU are not on the property anymore. The exact opposite is true. We have come together as a group like never before. The votes of the past few months prove this more than anything. We are anything but weak.

"Also FS did not go back further than M&R, you have only had a CBA since 1999, M&R has had one since 1949."

This is a moot point. If it were revelant then using the same argument I do not have the same rights as someone who has lived in this state their whole life or a naturalized citizen does not have the same rights as someone born in the United States.

"M&R gave up 46% of the jobs, they were eliminated, all the shops closed, line utility farmed out, heavy mtc of the A330, 767, 757 and 50% of the 737s all outsourced, something that was never permitted at US since the IAM was organized in 1949."

M&R (maintance and related) were paid to give up those jobs. An option we were not given and they too voted to do so. The vast majority of that 46% fall under the "related" category in other words utility as you would put it. I would use the term "aircraft cleaners" and we all know who does those jobs now.

"Shift differential eliminated, penison gone, retiree medical gone, do I need to continue?"

We too lost all that and a whole lot more. Do YOU need to continue? NO!!!! You need to shut up and go back to baking your Twinkies or whatever it is you do now.

 

[pjirish317]

Do you people ever blame the company, cause in reality they are the ones who dont want to give you a cost increase CBA?

I would love to. But our union has not fought the company for the past 2 years. You yourself said that section 6 negotiations were to "costly". Then you turn around and say we need to start section 6? Can you say flip-flop. The truth is, that both transition, and section 6 negotiations should have been going on. Who's fault is that. The unions thats whos fault it is. The union could have pressed the issue but did not. I blame the company for alot of things, this is not one of them though. The I'LL ASK MANAGEMENT has had 2 1/2 years to get this done. Now all of the merger and consolidation talks, we need this now for who? The company? Please.

 

[dexter]

This will be my last argument on the T/A for fleet. TO GET YOU GUYS TO PUT OFF NEW BARGAINING SO THEY CAN MERGE, MAKE MILLIONS AND LEAVE. IT IS CALLED MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS AND IT IS A BIG MONEY GAME.

ALL THE COMPANY IS REALLY LOOKING FOR IS A TA THAT ENSURES CONTRACT BARGAINING BE PUT OFF UNTIL 2012 BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BAIL AND NO ONE WILL MERGE WITH US WITH ALL THIS B.S. GOING ON!

WHEN ARE YOU ALL GOING TO WAKE UP AND STOP IGNORING THIS MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE?
CAN'T FIGHT THIS FIGHT ALONE WITHOUT TOTAL SOLIDARITY. ONE MORE THING READERS...WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS UP TIM NELSON'S REAR WHEN HE IS PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE LOOKING OUT FOR OUR BEST INTERESTS. STOP THE BICKERING AND MAKE SURE THIS LANGUAGE IS NOT IN ANY TA THAT MAY COME ACROSS THE BARGAINING TABLE IN THE COMING WEEKS.....
IF THIS CONTRACT TALK IS POSTPONED IN A TA FOR 2012 THEN ALL THIS FIGHTING TO GET CANALE OFF IN AN ELECTION IS MOOT BECAUSE HE WILL BE STANDING HEAD HIGH WITH THE LOOMING MERGER WITH UNITED. IF IT IS PASSED CANALE IS IN A WIN, WIN POSITION AND WILL TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN.

 

[b737200]

Hey Brick,
I understand part of what you are saying, but don't put cheap suites up on a pedisatal.
Looks like Al is getting nervous, if the sidebars have been going on, god bless you.
It is sensless to blame Nelson, if it wasn't for him and the internet nobody would
know anything because you guy's harbor info. You guys read these pages and if you can't get a grip
on what we'll vote for then you shouldn't be at the table. Cost nuetral is crap, you don't
see mgmt getting cost neutral bennies and bonuses.

The real loser in consolodation is going to be the iam, in membership and thats what your concerned
about. I know you don't give a #### about me or you would have visited or sent a card the
last time I was in the hospital.

Remember ***** BILL GENOVESE ******* the demise of the teamster airline division, the next
legacy will be under Canale because you and the other int'l reps didn't monitor his work ethic.
Pick up the messenger and see if anything about aloha or us is in it, didn't think so, they don't exist
as far a the district goes. Only dues money and it may run out soon.

 

[orioleman]

hey district farce,
"the opportunity to vote on something that is better than what the company offered last month and similar to what the members mistakenly voted down in September may be coming back around."

GET THIS THROUGH YOUR CANALE CLOUDED HEAD>.. and PLEASE make sure YOUR BOSS KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS THIS....


WE DID NOT AND I REPEAT DID NOT MISTAKENLY VOTE DOWN THAT PIECE OF S*IT RAG... and if thats what they want to bring back then stop wasting our

dues money on hotels and food and tell the CO. see ya in 09....

 

[redeye]

Next week will be a pivotal week if fleet service wants to move forward or stay divided.

You can even risk losing your job if you don't allow your company to transition.

While it is true that your company desperately needs a transition, YOU need one also, so where is the leverage in that????

I believe sidebar discussions have been productive over the past couple weeks and the opportunity to vote on something that is better than what the company offered last month and similar to what the members mistakenly voted down in September may be coming back around.

You can't allow one single individual to ruin your careers because of his personal ambitions and his breakroom attorney tactics. The difference between Randy Canale and Tim Nelson is clearly seen.

See you at Walmart.

On a good note, many locals are now seeing that they need the merger experience of Randy Canale and are upset they nominated the No direction team.

Districtfarce,

You bring up good points! ...

We will move forward. We are no longer divided.

The only jobs we fear losing are the stations you are willing to sacrifice.

If the company needs a transition, then how desperately. That comes to
fruition in negotiations. Randy's willingness to quickly take what is first
offered speaks volumes in that he can't negotiate effectively.

Sidebar negotiations demonstrate Randy's willingness to exclude the membership
in the negotiation process. He does not have direct US Airways ties. He is acting to
facilitate the agenda of the Company and its desire to merge with another such as United.

The only "One single individual" who is trying to control our lives is Randy. I find it
comical that you place so much emphasis on Mr. Nelson. I'm glade you fear him that
much. A good sign of respect.

Mention of the "New Direction Team" demonstrates that you fear more than Mr.
Nelson. The membership will regain control of "their" union in June. Team08 will
feel the effects of furlough and lost jobs.

See you at Wallmart. Save a smiley face sticker for my son... he likes them!

Thanks,

 

[The Bagfather]

Dio,



And all of you blame the IAM for a lackluster TA, ever realize this company doesnt want to give you squat?

700: The company is desperate to give FS the cheapest contract. You seem to
understand that as well as we do. Now what you don't understand is the basis
for the lack of respect for Canale. He's not willing to fight. He's not willing
to walk away. He's not afraid of who he should be afraid of (the east and the
enlightened west ) while he is afraid of the Class II guys and uneducated west.

It's up to the union to negotiate. It's also up to the union to come up with
a policy. It should be based on the what the members believe is acceptable.
The company will never agree to this without a threat of them loosing something.
Our current leadership believes that there is very little leverage at this point in
time. Fine then why be in such a rush to negotiate?

Even if you believe Canale is not swayed by any of his self interests(getting at the
west's dues-connection to UA, consolidating IAM power et. al.) he's left in a possition
where he is seen as caving into the segment of the workforce who is really hurting
(Class II stations and west hubs). This is exactly what the company is using to
take advantage of the situation. BTW there is a growing movement in the HUBs
who are finding this unacceptable.

Just to be clear IMO no one holds the naive possition
which you accuss them of. Most people here understand the fruitlessness of
"blaming". So blaming the IAM or the company for anything is stupid. What we
are doing is looking at the facts and making desisions based on them.

Thanks BF

 

[pjirish317]

Very well said Bagfather. I couldn't agree more!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Next week will be a pivotal week if fleet service wants to move forward or stay divided. You can even risk losing your job if you don't allow your company to transition. While it is true that your company desperately needs a transition, YOU need one also, so where is the leverage in that????

I believe sidebar discussions have been productive over the past couple weeks and the opportunity to vote on something that is better than what the company offered last month and similar to what the members mistakenly voted down in September may be coming back around. But you must not be divided on this and throw away one last opportunity. I'm convinced that Randy Canale will get the full support of the negotiations team and the future may very well be in your hands sooner than you think.

You can't allow one single individual to ruin your careers because of his personal ambitions and his breakroom attorney tactics. The difference between Randy Canale and Tim Nelson is clearly seen. Randy brought fleet service out of two chapter 11's. Randy was upfront and spoke truthfully to the members as Tim was spreading his newsletters of deceit.
Then with the America West merger, there was a real chance at a representation election in which everyone would have lost their representation. Randy's foresight enabled him to work closely with your company so there wouldn't be an election and he also secured an agreement with the TWU that would eliminate any need for an election. Tim was leading the TWU drive signing up cards to force an election so he could run a Teamster write-in campaign and be a Teamster boss. Randy sought to secure more members and preserve your rights of representation that protected your benefits and wages. If there was an election, you could have lost your contract, been reduced to non-union wages and benefits or all been contracted out.

That brings me to the industry consolidation that is going to take place rapidly. Have any of you noticed that the non-union carriers are teaming up with the union carriers? This is an orchestrated plan by the industry to eliminate representation and thousands of jobs. We do not have the leverage you think, now is the time to work with the company so we can live to fight another day. Tim Nelson is saying that you deserve more. I agree, but Randy's first responsibility is to secure our membership and YOUR representation rights. To do this, we have to work with the company in a way that will secure future recognition promises with a combined carrier. Your union wages and benefits will be at risk along with your right to representation. Looking ahead, there may only be 3 carriers left after consolidation and then we would have great leverage to fight, provided we secured a union industry first.
You have no leverage to fight in the midst of consolidation. You want to follow Tim Nelson, then good luck at the dance! Consolidation is going to happen quick and if you force your company out of a dance partner then you risk being left out of the industry but in chapter 11 or more likely chapter 7. Your company is a low cost carrier and has a business plan that practices cost neutral negotiations. You can't expect to get what you and I think is fair at this point. That being said, Randy Canale would love if he could get the gains that Nelson visions. Nelson talks big about the industry consolidation but he doesn't understand that if your company can't close out its labor deals then the investors won't step forward. Then you can all thank Tim Nelson when you all stand in line at Wall Mart with your Wall Mart application. One thing Tim is right about is that if fleet service doesn't sign on with the company's program to transition, then nobody is going to benefit and everyone's job will be at risk. See you at Walmart.

On a good note, many locals are now seeing that they need the merger experience of Randy Canale and are upset they nominated the No direction team. Randy's Board of Director experience also enables him to work through the tough issues with the officers of the company. The tides have turned and Nelson's deceit has now been revealed. Randy Canale has received the nominations of most of the small stations this past week and even Tampa has voiced their support for the entire Canale team this week, including all of the District's USair AGC's. Nelson puts all his local grabs on the internet but I believe that is to be divisive, the Canale team wants to bring members together and I doubt they pit station against station and broadcast who nominated who. Nominations and who did the nominations should be private only because it is divisive to pit one local against another.

What planet do you live on? And what on earth are you talking about?
Randy Canale has lied in each instance regarding TA's.
First one he told the membership that the 1113 letters were a guarantee that the company couldn't come back for more. I told everyone that was a lie. I was right.
Second one, Canale promised "Jet's for Jobs" and said MDA would be reason to vote in the contract as it produced automatic recognition for the IAM and secured more jobs. That was a lie and I told people the truth.
Third one, Canale proclaims his infamous, "The concession stand is closed". That was a lie and it was self evident and I didn't have to say anything.

Last one was in September, he said "Your choice is between voting in this contract or waiting till 2009." That was a lie and you can reference my post on this site for that one as I told people Canale is a liar and has always lied for the company and that the company WILL come back to negotiate....because it has to.

Now it seems your plans will be "Vote for this contract, or meet you at the Wall Mart line".

Each time your deal making with the company, you have screwed over the members. You make too many deals. It is readily apparent now that part of the 'deal' where he got the company to recognize the IAM without an election during the America West merger was that he would agree with the company to screw over the west and refuse to section 6 negotiate. I realize you love him because he has maintained IAM dues. But the negotiations team has told him to consider section 6 and he has refused.

This company is alive and kicking and has the second best balance sheet in the industry. Just made another 1/2 billion last year and now is in talks with Southwest airline according to the LA article. Dexter is right, this is all about 2012. All Canale has done is make deals with the company instead of representing the members. All you and Canale have said over 10 years is that 'now isn't the time to fight' and 'live to fight another day'. How the hell can a union man say such things as billions of dollars needs to switch hands? The worker is sacred and MUST be taken care of first, when has fair and equitable ever took a back seat to corporate greed?

As far as the NEW DIRECTION TEAM, we are comfortable with the numerous stations that support us and continue to support us. Your comments regarding the District officer elections are unfounded. I will not argue with your opinion, it's validity will be measured in June. But I will argue with your goofy appeal for the same TA that was voted down in September. You folks just don't listen do ya?
One thing I can tell you is that the negotiations team will NOT support Canale if a new TA is anything remotely close to the one voted down in September. What the hell is Canale even in sidebar negotiations for anyways??????? Has he advised the negotiations team of this? Why is he making unilateral statements about negotiations in various stations...comments that the negotiators don't even know about????? His days of being a dictator are over.

Fleet service has never and will never take this company into bankruptcy but if a labor group has to lead the way out of a bankruptcy contract then it might as well be fleet service. Now's the time to fight for what is right, not 5 years from now. What the hell? You've lost your marbles man and you and Canale are even worst than I thought.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[GoldenRam94]

Thanks guys! You are providing some great humor and fictional prose today!

 

[JoeDirt]

Thanks guys! You are providing some great humor and fictional prose today!

I agree with your "fictional prose" statement because Shocker and District Force are very adept at "fiction" but there is nothing humorous about us fighting for our future. Saying so is an insult to every FS member here.

 

[The Bagfather]

People,
The real chance at the negotiations table is how well labor does in the federal elections this year. Canale is a true unionist and can mobilize people with just phone calls. Don't blame Randy for not being able to deliver a fair contract, blame Bush. How many of you have helped Randy and went to DC for our day of action? Do you think Randy really wanted to sign a contract that eliminates senior workers who have been laid off? Do you think Randy really wanted to sign a contract that eliminates profit sharing and contracts out more jobs? Hell no he didn't! But with Bush in office, there is not much that Labor can do. Don't blame Randy, blame Bush.
Also, although I'm all for democracy, I think this district election is going to divide our group, I understand your concern but now isn't the time to make changes. If you want to make changes then don't change horses in the middle of the race. Wait for the merger activity to conclude, vote on a contract, and then address the internal matters of the union.
Try to understand the complexity and difficulty of merging two workgroups. I know Randy hasn't done everything right but remember, you have been through 3 bankruptcies and the last thing you want to do is to try to hold out for a better contract that will send your company back to bankruptcy a 4th time. Who really wants that?, really ?

To all pro ''New Direction'' slate you offer different names but the problem still exists...is the
problem Randy.....think
*seek the truth* it's out there.

Don't Blame anybody Bush Canale or anybody. First of all this is not the middle of the
stream and second were not changing horses were letting one go out to pasture where
he can't do any more damage and third of all if you are on the NEG committee I urge
you to carefully consider your support of Canale as to the good of FS on the
whole. For one thing outsourcing is unacceptable.

I say again do not blame anybody! Stand on your own as fight for what you believe
is right. If you believe that Canale's leadership is right . Well then I can't critisize
that. But what I can critisize is blaming Politics on our current problems. Of
coarse the political landscape affects labor. But to say the Canlales politics are
reason to keep him is wrong.

As to your fear of FS bankrupting US I assume your refering to the idea that a decent
contract would spur the other labor groups to the same. And that 5 decent contracts
would bankrupt the Company. Well what can anybody say to that. I think if
you are on the NEG team and sincerely believe that I will give you the same
advice that Mike S. offered recently. "If you think it's that bad you can always quit."

Thanks BF

 

[Tim Nelson]

Then with the America West merger, there was a real chance at a representation election in which everyone would have lost their representation. Randy's foresight enabled him to work closely with your company so there wouldn't be an election and he also secured an agreement with the TWU that would eliminate any need for an election.
I agree, but Randy's first responsibility is to secure our membership and YOUR representation rights. To do this, we have to work with the company in a way that will secure future recognition promises with a combined carrier.
quote;

District Force, I'm not sure if you or another Canale Cronie said the metaphor, "Don't change horses in the middle of the race" but I wanted to say that NOBODY is trying to change horses ok. My whole idea about forcing democracy through District elections isn't about changing horses but rather shooting the damn things and bringing out better stallions. This is the metophorical picture of what the June elections are all about. It's called TNP baby, take no prisoners. I have nothing against Randy Canale as a person but we are 'scorching the earth' and doing a purification and 'cleansing' in this district and eliminating all the deadweight horses. We can accomplish this because the membership is now tighter than two coats of paint. We want to win by such a margin that the political careers of Canale's team will be killed and exterminated! Not wounded or changed so they can come back in a couple years. We will shoot him out of a cannon, through the democratic election booth, in June and aim the cannon so that he gets shot back to management where he belongs. Once there, he can make all the company deals he wants, but he won't be able to make any more deasl or sidebar negotiatons on the backs of the masses ever again.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[GoldenRam94]

Posted deleted by moderator.......Guess you are looking for time off.