IAM Fleet Service topic 11/6-

[Jester]

Just proves me right that its not about wages, even Rez said so, its about airport fees and real estate, that should not be our problem, the company should be negotiating with the airport better rather than laying us off.

It worked really well for PIT, didn't it? Pretty much all airport authorities are non-profit governmental agencies with varying degrees of break-even points based upon various factors like construction bonds, labor costs, size of operation, utilities, etc. Demand all you want, but the airport authorities are not agreeable to go into the red so the airline employees don't need to take a pay cut.

Frankly, labor costs are the easiest part of expenses to reduce as aircraft leases are long-term, airport lease rates are inflexible, and the price of fuel is uncontrollable (beyond expensive hedges which don't always work for the best). Low-skilled, or at best, semi-skilled, positions are the most easy to cut, especially during a deep recession where plenty of people are will to do our jobs on the ramp for half the contractual rate and why scope clauses are so important.

It might be said if West was still working under its old TWU contract that the LAS hub would still be operational as the wage scale under the TWU contract wasn't much better than the Swissport rate. However, few in the West were willing to accept a two-tier payscale between East and West. Even if LAS was DOA regardless of wages, the Tempe Boys would have been able to reduce flights and eliminate positions under the TWU or IAM contract. See how well the TWU contract protected CMH from being de-hubbed.

So Surmises Jester.

 

[bagchucker]

Where are you getting your information? I was told from some of the TUS guys that DGS (hurr durr $8.00/hr) was doing the ramp down there (and making a poor job of it). UAL discontinued mainline service to TUS in June, according to a post on the United board.

I have also been told that DGS is the ramp vendor for the TUS station. G.A.T. replaced our brothers and sisters at BUR, Piedmont ventured West and handles our LGB ramp. Not sure about AUS, OMA, ELP, or MKE. Anyone know?

 

[The Janitor]

Tell The Company people you talk to, to shove it up their A**!!! Whos doing our work now in TUS? Let me tell you, it United Employees. Guess what they make more than we do, have better health care then we do, dont tell me United is going to bid on work and take a loss on it, they bid on it and won and are making money! Ask your company connections about that since your so close with them!!

Save it Tally yo,
He knows who's doing the work. He knows that was a lie. There are a good dozen locations where the company contracted out jobs only to pay close to double to other airline employees. Better would have been for Prez to say, "My bad" instead of blowing more smoke. He told us in red ink what he himself believes. Prez is a nice guy but he believed a lie on this one.

 

[Tally yo]

Jester I dont believe I have said anywhere, and I mean anywhere that the union can stop the company from downsizing in our current contract, However they do have a choice to contract out certain stations and they have done it everywhere "WE" have allowed them too and some that are in question. One more point WN can make money on 25 dollar segments and we cant when we charge 100!! You cant say we make more than them!!!!

Frnkly paragraph 1 and 2 are obsolete and just bring up bad memories now your middle paragraph last sentence surprises me that you are so willing to pay attention to scope now that they have outsourced 5 stations like alot of people told you they would.

 

[The Janitor]

My goodness Rez, I hope you don't mind me calling you that Darlin. The other is just too close to Perez Hilton, and I find that just creepy. That surely wasn't your intent, was it? Any who, I just have some things troubling me that I wanted to share with you sweetie. It wasn't B scale Darlin, it was Class two, as in second class. Now as I recall, Canale was told if Class Two stations could be dismissed they would be a bigger raise for Class one stations. Help me remember Honey, what was it that protected those adorable little stations in that little TWU contract you were so fond of? In that awful IAM contract those stations would have been gone pronto. Those mean old boys in corporate are going to do what they want, one way or the other. The way I see it, some will have their jobs a little longer this way. Do you really think that Canale thought those cute little stations would make or break the election for him? You're just being silly now. I surely hope you don't think I'm a hater. Honey, I could never hate you. I just think sometimes you get a little confused. Don't get hurt by those big bad unions boys. I don't think they are going to let you play in their sandbox. We all know you want in. You are not a bad guy, but Sweetie, they are not letting you in.

Thankfully Canale is gone. Unfortunately, usfleet has to deal with his last contract. None here like it. I certainly hope the new guys can win some attendance grievances but I doubt they win many of them since Canale never negotiated this language in it, nor the health care for next year. Good thing is that in the next round of negotiations we will not have people in there where management tells them what to do. As you said, management told Canale this and that. Our AGC is doing alot better than the deadbeat Canale had here that is such a union man that he isn't even involved. Our LC and Local officers have also got things more solid since the mess that Canale had here. I don't know if what you said is true or not about Prez but I know PHL should be in line ahead of them for a second Eboard seat. I personally haven't heard any bad on Prez and plus he stays involved which is good. If he waits his turn, my bet is either him or CL are set up to lead PHX, maybe both, but RR must be removed. Who else is there in PHX? NOBODY. If they want to go for things now and join a losing ticket with RE, who her own local hates and exhibted by giving her the lowest votes on the last ballot, (even our PHL AGC got more than her) then knowing politics I would say they can forget about things. I may be wrong but I heard that Prez and CL are working closely with the DL and doing a good job. Why would any of them join the RE traveling hate tour?

RD believes in the participation of LC in negotiations, so either Prez or CL (I have no idea which is chair), at minimal, are most likely to be appointed on our new negotiations team in 25 months.

 

[ChockJockey]

I personally haven't heard any bad on Prez and plus he stays involved which is good. If he waits his turn, my bet is either him or CL are set up to lead PHX, maybe both, but RR must be removed.

RR's been out of the picture for some time. CL's chairman.

 

[The Janitor]

RR's been out of the picture for some time. CL's chairman.

What is RR doing? If he's out of it then why doesnt he just step aside then and let CL take his vacant position of VP and then have PR step into LC? Why couldn't that happen?

CL and Prez worked with our AGC and he said they were straightening things up in PHX better than it had been.

 

[ChockJockey]

What is RR doing?

Running bags in the AM, last I knew.

 

[bagchucker]

RR's picture appears on the DL141 website under officers. If he isn't VP at large anymore, perhaps the website should be updated...hmmm.

 

[Jester]

Jester I dont believe I have said anywhere, and I mean anywhere that the union can stop the company from downsizing in our current contract, However they do have a choice to contract out certain stations and they have done it everywhere "WE" have allowed them too and some that are in question. One more point WN can make money on 25 dollar segments and we cant when we charge 100!! You cant say we make more than them!!!!

Frnkly paragraph 1 and 2 are obsolete and just bring up bad memories now your middle paragraph last sentence surprises me that you are so willing to pay attention to scope now that they have outsourced 5 stations like alot of people told you they would.

Mr. Yo,

Points of clarification:

1) There is a great myth that the TWU contract provided unlimited protections from downsizing, regardless if you are not a believer in such nonsense, I figure it is best to address that matter for others.

2) Many of those stations which were eliminated were not handling mainline aircraft, thus even under the TWU contract, those stations could be contracted out. Granted it took only one mainline flight per day, but I am sure that company could have worked around that one by using an RJ instead. The only reason those positions were kept in-house was because the pay was comparable to the subcontractor... higher pay with the new contract means less chance of a job.

3) Southwest makes money because they have better aircraft utilization and thus, greater productivity in their workforce. Granted, management dictates schedule, but I know that if most of my co-workers were handling 6 to 8 30-minute turns in 8 hours, it would lead to cardiac arrest on the ramp. Southwest FSA are paid more, because they do more and they are more efficient. You think you can handle that workload, and want make that higher pay, then here's the address... http://www.southwest.com/careers/?int=FOOTHOME_CAREER

4) Scope clause... well, that's all we got. It is our only protection. Unlike Pilots and Mechanics, and even Customer Service agents, our requirements to perform our jobs could be taught in a matter of days, and it does not require any special licenses or lengthy training. If any of those aforementioned groups walk-off, the airline probably wouldn't survive a month... we walk, and there will be a line a mile long of qualified people willing and able to perform the task for half the average wage.

5) What you call "obsolete" is the economic reality. Airport authorities aren't taking a bath in red ink so you can make a larger paycheck... so deal with it!

So Vexes Jester.

 

[700UW]

Go ask the rampers of the Fine Air crash, how important training is?

The plane was loaded wrong and crashed.

Ask the Valujet employees about hazmat O2 Generators, we all know what that caused.

Yep training is not important right Jester?

 

[Jester]

Go ask the rampers of the Fine Air crash, how important training is?

The plane was loaded wrong and crashed.

Ask the Valujet employees about hazmat O2 Generators, we all know what that caused.

Yep training is not important right Jester?

700UW,

You think W&B is all that difficult of a concept to learn? Simple math on the weight, and pull 'n chug the numbers into a template for the balance. This isn't rocket surgery.

As for HazMat, that's a three hour lecture... if that.

Learning how to drive a car takes more time for someone who has never driven a car before, and that's part of the job, and yet, probably 95% of adult Americans have that skill too. Do you understand it is a matter of supply and demand and there are plenty of people with the limited skills required to perform the job?

So Enlightens Jester.

 

[robbedagain]

someone mentioned the healthcare that us has and it came to me as no surprise that the company probabloy said well if we cant raise it we can get around it by geographic location which in turn raised it by 11 bucks for the 100/80 coverage. Now I dont know if the union can do anything about that but I just think its odd that they did it this way rather than offer a choice as has been for yrs. On the other hand a grievance I filed in July is already on step 3, pretty quick to jump to that level in say 4 months timing

 

[Tally yo]

my station was offered a choice during open enrollment!!! If you didnt change from last year and didnt participate during open enrollment you were given the same as last year and with the new prices.

 

[robbedagain]

my station was offered a choice during open enrollment!!! If you didnt change from last year and didnt participate during open enrollment you were given the same as last year and with the new prices.

ours was given the only choice regardless.. base on geographic location, UHC is not in the Mid Atlantic region it is BCBS. So everyone had to do it all over rather than keep what they have Im wondering if this was different at each station