How long are you really a Reserve in the East?

[Phoenix]

So if you know the hire date of the junior secondary blockholder in a base (I think that's the hire date they give in the newsletter), everyone junior to that (hired later) is a reserve ...

Novel. Simply novel..

 

[Phoenix]

..Fixing the reserve system will make life easier for those on reserve, but only growth will fix the longevity issue (or a rotating reserve system will give some relief).

Jim

A rotating system would help fix reserve but it would effectively deny seniority, even if only on a rotating basis. Gravity never flushed a toilet uphill. Its nice to dream once in awhile, but even dreams have to have a dose of reality. :huh:

 

[EMBFA]

Huh? You're clearly more familiar with plumbing than with what rotating reserve means.

 

[Skyward]

I think many will be surprised by the number of 15-20 year East F/A's who will bid PHX as soon as they can to get a block.

Blocks, or lines, are averaging around 3 - 4 years in PHX. So, if everything was aligned today basically ANY current East FA could transfer into a life OFF reserve.

 

[Zarah]

Blocks, or lines, are averaging around 3 - 4 years in PHX. So, if everything was aligned today basically ANY current East FA could transfer into a life OFF reserve.

Perhaps. Can you say for sure that 3 - 4 years seniority in PHX would hold a block if they used the same system the EAST uses today? I wonder what seniority would hold a block if we used the WEST system.

Because we have no idea what the final outcome of the contract will be, all we can do is play a guessing game of what seniority groups will be block holders and what seniority groups will be reserve. Then don't forget to add in the block chasers and if improvements are made to slow down the attrition out of PHX stagnation will occur.

My guess is the new contract will be some sort of untried hybrid of EAST/WEST systems to try and please both groups.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Is there a sense out west what the numbers would be of F/As transferring east? Would they be a combination of senioritys? ?

 

[flybynite]

Let me put it to you this way....I'm based in CLT and I'm in my 19th year and I'm hanging onto a secondary line by the seat of my pants.

Don't worry..I don't want to transfer to PHX. This is my home...mortgage and all. 😀
I'm not chasing a "line" of time.

 

[USCREW]

WCT,

There are a couple of points to know about Primary/Secondary/Reserves.

1. Only Primaries can SAP, and get their blocks first, two months in advance.
2. Secondaries get their blocks after, which means that they get a mixed bag of left-overs from Primaries.
3. Because Sat., Sun. and some holidays are restricted for everyone, some people believe that bidding RSV during certain months is beneficial.
4. AIL is going on the bid sheet for everyone, and it is for the next day's trip. Scheduling starts covering at noon for BHs and 1500 for RSVs.
5. Primary positions can not be taken away by a more senior person unlike SAP, AIL, SWAP, ETB, and secondary trips.

Hope that helps.

 

[N109UW]

WCT,

There are a couple of points to know about Primary/Secondary/Reserves.

1. Only Primaries can SAP, and get their blocks first, two months in advance.
2. Secondaries get their blocks after, which means that they get a mixed bag of left-overs from Primaries.
3. Because Sat., Sun. and some holidays are restricted for everyone, some people believe that bidding RSV during certain months is beneficial.
4. AIL is going on the bid sheet for everyone, and it is for the next day's trip. Scheduling starts covering at noon for BHs and 1500 for RSVs.
5. Primary positions can not be taken away by a more senior person unlike SAP, AIL, SWAP, ETB, and secondary trips.

Hope that helps.

Also, RSV's usually get there schedule about 1 week, sometimes less, before the end of the month. Not really much relief, especially, if you want to make doctor appts or let your parents know you might come for a visit. This is all due to the fact that BH's have so many chances to adjust their schedules. Our ETB starts 24 hours after the close of RSV bidding.

 

[AstroLounge]

regardless WHAT TYPE OF SPIN the Company wants to put on it, the entire F/A scheduling & staffing procedures doesn't work for BH (Primary/Secondary) and certainly Reserves and THIS has a DIRECT Effect on the LEVEL of Service delivered across the board. This current setup requires Senior BH to work more than most would like (as oppsed to the former Options of 55/75/85/95/105), too restrictive for Anyone that has to touch Weekends/Holidays. Worst of all is a Reserve System that doesn't allow people to work THAT WANT TO WORK. A Reserve should NOT have to give up their CONTRACTUAL DAYS OFF to pick up trips from the ETB just to have a decent paycheck. Anyone who thinks this doesn't have a DIRECT EFFECT on Employee Morale is CLEARLY OUT of TOUCH. (Mrs. Simone, who implimented the Program wouldn't know anything about that because "Fashionable Cindi" couldn't get HIRED as a F/A......best the former Hostess at an Eat'n Park could do is work her Way in at a USAir Club). BRING BACK THE OPTIONS and it will OPEN MORE FLEXIBILITY ACROSS THE BOARD.......have the F/A Suprvs discipline the few that "Skated" by NOT working be in a position to take the appropriate action. The Junior people in this COMPANY deserve better.........Reserve in PIT at 24yrs or CLT at 18yrs is BULLSH*T!

 

[WCT]

Thanks for the great info all! Our 3-4 year people are going back and forth from reserve to a blank relief line, which is a line created by the company. Hold a regular line is about 4-5 years. The company could easily make more lines but they don't. We have about 500+ reserve lines which is ridiculous.
Do you think the reason it takes so long to get off reserve on the East is because you fly with your pilots the whole block?

 

[USCREW]

regardless WHAT TYPE OF SPIN the Company wants to put on it, the entire F/A scheduling & staffing procedures doesn't work for BH (Primary/Secondary) and certainly Reserves and THIS has a DIRECT Effect on the LEVEL of Service delivered across the board. This current setup requires Senior BH to work more than most would like (as oppsed to the former Options of 55/75/85/95/105), too restrictive for Anyone that has to touch Weekends/Holidays. Worst of all is a Reserve System that doesn't allow people to work THAT WANT TO WORK. A Reserve should NOT have to give up their CONTRACTUAL DAYS OFF to pick up trips from the ETB just to have a decent paycheck. Anyone who thinks this doesn't have a DIRECT EFFECT on Employee Morale is CLEARLY OUT of TOUCH. (Mrs. Simone, who implimented the Program wouldn't know anything about that because "Fashionable Cindi" couldn't get HIRED as a F/A......best the former Hostess at an Eat'n Park could do is work her Way in at a USAir Club). BRING BACK THE OPTIONS and it will OPEN MORE FLEXIBILITY ACROSS THE BOARD.......have the F/A Suprvs discipline the few that "Skated" by NOT working be in a position to take the appropriate action. The Junior people in this COMPANY deserve better.........Reserve in PIT at 24yrs or CLT at 18yrs is BULLSH*T!

I agree that the system does not work for reserves but I don't think that it has EVER been better for BHs in terms of flexibility, even with the restricted week-ends. I fly 40 hours. We have never been able to drop so low. Even the 55 as well as the 105 had a very low percentage cap, so most could not hold 55, leaving the majority who didn't want/need more hours on 75. With the current system, a Primary BH can drop to 40 or fly every waking moment, legalities permitting. We couldn't have done that with the old options system, it had much less flexibility.

I know of a Cindi Simone, but she was definitely an F/A prior to going into the training department and middle management. Blond hair? Married to a preacher?

 

[N109UW]

I agree that the system does not work for reserves but I don't think that it has EVER been better for BHs in terms of flexibility, even with the restricted week-ends. I fly 40 hours. We have never been able to drop so low. Even the 55 as well as the 105 had a very low percentage cap, so most could not hold 55, leaving the majority who didn't want/need more hours on 75. With the current system, a Primary BH can drop to 40 or fly every waking moment, legalities permitting. We couldn't have done that with the old options system, it had much less flexibility.

I know of a Cindi Simone, but she was definitely an F/A prior to going into the training department and middle management. Blond hair? Married to a preacher?

I'll have to agree here. This is probably the best BH's have ever had it, and they still have the bidsheet. Amazing. However, this is most likely the worst any rsv at US has ever had it. So, who is our union protecting and who is getting sacrificed? CLT meeting is tomorrow. We shall see.

 

[beachboy]

regardless WHAT TYPE OF SPIN the Company wants to put on it, the entire F/A scheduling & staffing procedures doesn't work for BH (Primary/Secondary) and certainly Reserves and THIS has a DIRECT Effect on the LEVEL of Service delivered across the board. This current setup requires Senior BH to work more than most would like (as oppsed to the former Options of 55/75/85/95/105), too restrictive for Anyone that has to touch Weekends/Holidays. Worst of all is a Reserve System that doesn't allow people to work THAT WANT TO WORK. A Reserve should NOT have to give up their CONTRACTUAL DAYS OFF to pick up trips from the ETB just to have a decent paycheck. Anyone who thinks this doesn't have a DIRECT EFFECT on Employee Morale is CLEARLY OUT of TOUCH. (Mrs. Simone, who implimented the Program wouldn't know anything about that because "Fashionable Cindi" couldn't get HIRED as a F/A......best the former Hostess at an Eat'n Park could do is work her Way in at a USAir Club). BRING BACK THE OPTIONS and it will OPEN MORE FLEXIBILITY ACROSS THE BOARD.......have the F/A Suprvs discipline the few that "Skated" by NOT working be in a position to take the appropriate action. The Junior people in this COMPANY deserve better.........Reserve in PIT at 24yrs or CLT at 18yrs is BULLSH*T!

Did you just fire off a blast at THE MIGHTY MRS. SIMONE? Ewwww, careful she might take that silk scarf and choke you with it. It goes to show you it's not what you know it's who you know. From the Eat and Park to popping Sodas at the PIT USAir Club to Inflight....and now Director in PHX. She will mostly likey bump out Sherry Shambles in no time. Keep slithering Cindi 🙄

 

[flybynite]

Thanks for the great info all! Our 3-4 year people are going back and forth from reserve to a blank relief line, which is a line created by the company. Hold a regular line is about 4-5 years. The company could easily make more lines but they don't. We have about 500+ reserve lines which is ridiculous.
Do you think the reason it takes so long to get off reserve on the East is because you fly with your pilots the whole block?

No.
The reason is because there has been no growth, we're flying understaffed and a lot of senior f/a's are not retiring. 🙁