Did Doogie Just Blink?

[nostradamus]

That's basically what ALPA National wants the two pilot groups to do: have the two MECs come up with a solution / amendment that is palatable (read: will tick off both evenly) to both pilot groups.

The big hold-up is that the AAA MEC needs such a solution as an amendment to the Nicolau award in order to save their own positions whereas the AWA MEC (for equally obvious reasons) wants to make any kind of amendment a part of the joint contract after the Nic award has been accepted by ALPA National and presented to US management.

My WAG is that the proposed solution will be something like all future Captain slots ratioed at 1:1 or maybe 2:1 (AAA:AWA East Coast cities, AWA:AAA West Coast Cities). I know that's a crappy solution but all ALPA needs is 50% + 1.

Fix the merger policy or I will express my opinion to ALPA to the end.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Ahem. In a flex month you <may> fly over 90, at your option (unless you hold a reserve line...).
You may sap down to 15 hrs. less than the monthly cap. So, if the cap is 90 when sap is run, you can go down to 75, and in a 'normal' month (what is that???) you may sap to 70. If you sap, then your monthly obligation is the value of your new 'sapped' line. If you don't, then it's 80 hrs.
Also, 125% of nothin' still equals nothin'. For a group II f/o, flying 'overtime' for 5 hours would net you another whopping $106.61. sutract ALPA dues and taxes from that.....and.......WHOOPTY-FREEKIN' DOOOOOO.
Looks like they want us to work for nothin' (again).

Ahem. Wrong.

If you SAP 15 hours under, you are still obligated for 10 hours under the cap. So, in your example, if the cap is 90 when SAP closes, and you get your block down to 75, you then are obligated to find the other 5 hours on your own during the month. Even though your SAP'd line is down to 75, you are obligated for 80 (10 under the cap.)

And if you don't find that other 5 hours, you do get a call from the front office asking why you didn't meet your obligation.

 

[prechilill]

Fully agree. There's a great window of opportunity for labor here. Any fresh thoughts on fences?

Put up a ten year fence at the Mississippi and let Doug deal with it. Tempe needs some extra military instruction on taking care of your people first. Heck, they need EMI for taking care of the customers and just about everybody outside of their inner circle on the ninth floor.

 

[john john]

Basically, for the months of July and August, management is looking to bribe our pilots and offer 25% percent premium for any block hour flown over 85 hours in exchange for major scheduling relief including moving line holder pilots.

Scheduling is offering round trip positive space on commuting if they take the deals. Get your hrs. in and get positive space.

 

[pilot]

Ahem. Wrong.

If you SAP 15 hours under, you are still obligated for 10 hours under the cap. So, in your example, if the cap is 90 when SAP closes, and you get your block down to 75, you then are obligated to find the other 5 hours on your own during the month. Even though your SAP'd line is down to 75, you are obligated for 80 (10 under the cap.)

And if you don't find that other 5 hours, you do get a call from the front office asking why you didn't meet your obligation.


And the answer to that question is "I'm fatigued and that is a safety of flight issue the I am not prepared to take. According to the FOM I must be totally prepared to take a flight. Mentally and physically. Would you like to get the FAA in on this phone call Mr. Chief Pilot?"

Let them call me all they want. Who cares?

pilot

 

[CV580ETOPS]

Here's a fresh, totally uninformed thought:

DOH safe harbors: something less than all of the East. Say one large hub or a collection of the small hubs(DCA, LGA, BOS, PIT).

Seriously, AWA pilots, even if you managed to grant an epiphany upon every USEast pilot that their legal position is crap, wouldn't you still have years or decades of bad feeling? Isn't there a possibility for a small concession, bordering on inconsequential, to provide great benefits in goodwill, solidarity and lack of whipsawing over decades?

It seems to me, totally from the outside, that the Nic award is at least ill-conceived because it's divergences get GREATER the lower down the list you go, insuring bad feeling for years to come. (Honestly, I'd call the benefit reaped by pilots hired post 9-11 a 'windfall' in laymen's terms)

Seriously, how many AWA pilots are going to want to flood high cost, hard commute east bases? So, give up nothing, or very little, for huge benefits in future good-will. Just put it in writing as a side agreement.

I can't even figure out how this would 'flow' if you created 'safe harbor' bases (either east only bases, or DOH bases) that are some sub-set of the east operation.

Again, best case scenario for west with the do nothing approach: you win the point and the opportunity to bid captains seats out of LGA and PIT and lose any chance for solidarity for years or decades: good deal, huh?

It just seems so silly to an outsider. And east pilots: you aren't helping your position with actions that verge on extortion.

You should have mentioned this to YOUR pilot's merger commitee when the AWA and AAA groups were trying to hammer something out at the table 2 years ago. Instaed your boys took off on this suicidal all-or-nothing DOH path at the expense of everything else which led to mediation and finally the arbitrators awards which they seem to have heartburn with. Look where it got them. Too late to go back and rehash things now. Let's face it the AAA pilots thought they were dealing with a bunch of commuter pilots that they could go in and roll. They thought wrong.Time for them to deal with the consequences of their actions. Good luck.

 

[EastUS]

Put up a ten year fence at the Mississippi and let Doug deal with it. Tempe needs some extra military instruction on taking care of your people first. Heck, they need EMI for taking care of the customers and just about everybody outside of their inner circle on the ninth floor.

I think that such an idea would "sell", and hopefully...allow us to actually start getting together as an actual "pilot group". No sane person ever wants "war"...of any sort.

"Tempe needs some extra military instruction on taking care of your people first." Hmmm = "extra"?...That would assume that any of those Sand Castle geeks ever saw so much as a Cub Scout Uniform in the first place

You should have mentioned this to YOUR pilot's merger commitee when the AWA and AAA groups were trying to hammer something out at the table 2 years ago. Instaed your boys took off on this suicidal all-or-nothing DOH path at the expense of everything else which led to mediation and finally the arbitrators awards which they seem to have heartburn with. Look where it got them. Too late to go back and rehash things now. Let's face it the AAA pilots thought they were dealing with a bunch of commuter pilots that they could go in and roll. They thought wrong.Time for them to deal with the consequences of their actions. Good luck.

RowunderDCA:"It seems to me, totally from the outside, that the Nic award is at least ill-conceived because it's divergences get GREATER the lower down the list you go, insuring bad feeling for years to come. (Honestly, I'd call the benefit reaped by pilots hired post 9-11 a 'windfall' in laymen's terms)"

QUOTE(CV580ETOPS @ Jul 2 2007, 09:23 AM)
"You should have mentioned this to YOUR pilot's merger commitee"

RowunderDCA:"It seems to me, totally from the outside..."

Given some small ability to read english CV5: I'm fairly sure that Rowunder isn't an east pilot, but rather a person who travels for business, ie: a Customer....but feel free to insanely rant away at everyone as it suits you. :down:

 

[Itestwell]

And DP really thinks we need to hire outside consultants to offer a "fresh" view into our current issues? Please, I'll do it for free.